[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Ym1r
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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
I don't think that banning of Veil of Summer is going to be enough to get players excited enough to play Blue or Black. Cards like Drown in the Loch were a big start, without doing something UB like Oko, Thief of Crowns to just PUUUUSH everyone to Watery Grave.dec.
Imagine a UB Titan under the current design structure:

1UB
When UB Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, draw a card and target opponent discards a card.
Escape UUBB.
6/6

:party: :party: :party: :explode:
More likely it would be some garbage-y "When UB Titan enter the battlefied or attacks, target opponent puts the top 4 cards in the GY, loses 2 life and you gain 2 life"
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
I don't think that banning of Veil of Summer is going to be enough to get players excited enough to play Blue or Black. Cards like Drown in the Loch were a big start, without doing something UB like Oko, Thief of Crowns to just PUUUUSH everyone to Watery Grave.dec.
Imagine a UB Titan under the current design structure:

1UB
When UB Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, draw a card and target opponent discards a card.
Escape UUBB.
6/6

:party: :party: :party: :explode:
More likely it would be some garbage-y "When UB Titan enter the battlefied or attacks, target opponent puts the top 4 cards in the GY, loses 2 life and you gain 2 life"
Lol, true talk.


(I'm a long time Black/Blue mage.)
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
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Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
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Post by ThatStoryTeller » 1 year ago

i remember maro having said dimir was his favorite color combination. i think the history of the color pair makes them so afraid that they dont know how to push the envelope for dimir anymore. They dont want to repeat that faeries thing again, so they play it very safe, but Id love it if they made a few power edits like new ashiok at 4 mana instead of 5. You probably get like return a creature or instant card to your hand from the yard or something ...and dont get me wrong Id take that too.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

ThatStoryTeller wrote:
1 year ago
i remember maro having said dimir was his favorite color combination. i think the history of the color pair makes them so afraid that they dont know how to push the envelope for dimir anymore. They dont want to repeat that faeries thing again, so they play it very safe, but Id love it if they made a few power edits like new ashiok at 4 mana instead of 5. You probably get like return a creature or instant card to your hand from the yard or something ...and dont get me wrong Id take that too.
This was the explanation for many years, but then they go and print a Standard legal card like The Scarab God and there are other examples I'm not thinking about. Yes, it hasn't been a bunch of great UB cards all together in the same Block ever since Faeries or UB Jace/Grave Titan Control, but they have still made plenty of mistakes. I think that it's been long enough from Lorwyn Block that at least 75% of the MTG playing population didn't even play then and I'm sure it's higher among Standard only players.
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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

People here complaining about one colour combo, when one colour, white, has been down to nothing for years seems a bit odd. I mean not wrong, UB is less relevant now than it has been, but it is a hell of a lot healthier than white.

First it was mass kill, but Johnny Bigmonster hated his lands being killed. Bye bye Geddon, Cataclysm, Balance. Ok the last one was busted, but weenies worked by 2, drop, 2 drop, geddon back in the day.

Then it was about hate cards from the board, Stony Silence etc., but Johnny boy did not like his ravager deck being slowed to a crawl so that went.

Then it was about hate bears, but without protection, because Johnny dud not like protection. Johnny was ok with how things were, because his monsters were bigger than bears and they kept giving him critter removal in odd ways.

Result? Johnny is an arse who has quit the game anyway, and White does nothing in a tournament environment. No one drop dude, bar Vial., no hand disruption, no mana disruption beyond dudes with taxes that fail the bolt/push test,

Dimir can do one, back of the queue please, white has been waiting for literally years to have relevance. It needs fixing before we look at colour combinations. Of course we could fix both, but given the design paradigm, I think neither will happen.

Path to exile is almost unplayable. It is rubbish. Cast in the first couple if turns it feel ls like a Timewalk- for them. Its main job is holding back critter combo decks, most of which have a plan B that white cannot interact with. It has been damn near useless against format kings like Tron, Dredge etc. for years.

We are left with the best white cards being Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, which were printed as far back as Rtr and ISD respectively.

Thalia is a great card in Legacy, but only because it is backed up with Wasteland and Port, and the format runs less removal for critters. In Modern hatebears are always underpowered, because weenies don't work unless they take out opponent's mana. Period.
A succession of 'fails the bolt test' dudes with minor taxes will not a winning deck make unless you can nerf their mana at the same time.


White's recent shot in the arm cards have of course, been edh jobs. No surprise there.

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Post by TheBoulderer » 1 year ago

I just went to the dark side and tried some Grixis Snow Kroxa with Blood Moon and Dead of Winter mainboard. And although its probably not great vs Bant Snow due to Path, I experienced the utter stupidity of escaping a Titan with a few Snow-covered basics + Astrolabe.

The conclusion is that even in an archetype that is not primed to take advantage of Snow, a Snow manabase is ridiculously powerful and probably strictly better than a normal one.

And I have to be honest, it's hella fun to play too. Not having to think anout color rrquirements makes playing a snow mana base really really easy. I guess that's an aspect to intensely criticise too: Playing Astrolabe decks feels banal and dumbed-down.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

So, how %$#% am I if I drop manage to drop a turn 3 Creator Karn against a deck running Astrolabes?
Last time I played against a deck running them was before the lattice ban and I was kinda hoping I'd meet a lot decks with artifacts because of Karn being awesome against them.
It just looks like people have tweaked them to be stronger now and I can't get lattice anymore :(

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

After playing more with the card, I think Astrolabe is exactly the kind of gas fair Modern decks need to keep up. As powerful as it is, Astrolabe definitely comes at a cost, and it is very easy to punish Astrolabe mana decks for it. Getting your Astrolabe destroyed or discarded can be devastating for your opening plan, and especially against the decks that run it in conjunction with any other artifact plan (SFM package or Urza package), Stony Silence or Karn GC is devastating, as is anything that stops library searching since most Astrolabe lists run 8-10 fetchlands.

Astrolabe should become a staple to Modern manabases like fetchlands are. It is probably too powerful from a theory perspective, but what it does to the format is entirely positive. It promotes fair magic, it gives reasons to play both multicolor or two-color manabases, can get counterplayed mainboard, and does not boost one color too much over the others. If there is one aspect of the new Astrolabe manabases that truly is a problem is that it goes hand in hand with Mystic Sanctuary, which is just an absurd card that should not exist.

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

TheBoulderer wrote:
1 year ago
I just went to the dark side and tried some Grixis Snow Kroxa with Blood Moon and Dead of Winter mainboard. And although its probably not great vs Bant Snow due to Path, I experienced the utter stupidity of escaping a Titan with a few Snow-covered basics + Astrolabe.

The conclusion is that even in an archetype that is not primed to take advantage of Snow, a Snow manabase is ridiculously powerful and probably strictly better than a normal one.

And I have to be honest, it's hella fun to play too. Not having to think anout color rrquirements makes playing a snow mana base really really easy. I guess that's an aspect to intensely criticise too: Playing Astrolabe decks feels banal and dumbed-down.
Run Cruel Ultimatum. You know you want to do it. DO IT! I will definitely draft a Cruel Ultimatum snow list!
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by TheBoulderer » 1 year ago

Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
After playing more with the card, I think Astrolabe is exactly the kind of gas fair Modern decks need to keep up. As powerful as it is, Astrolabe definitely comes at a cost, and it is very easy to punish Astrolabe mana decks for it. Getting your Astrolabe destroyed or discarded can be devastating for your opening plan.

Astrolabe should become a staple to Modern manabases like fetchlands are. It is probably too powerful from a theory perspective, but what it does to the format is entirely positive.
What on earth have you been smoking? These arguments are so backwards I feel personally offended by them.
Warning for trolling.
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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
TheBoulderer wrote:
1 year ago
I just went to the dark side and tried some Grixis Snow Kroxa with Blood Moon and Dead of Winter mainboard. And although its probably not great vs Bant Snow due to Path, I experienced the utter stupidity of escaping a Titan with a few Snow-covered basics + Astrolabe.

The conclusion is that even in an archetype that is not primed to take advantage of Snow, a Snow manabase is ridiculously powerful and probably strictly better than a normal one.

And I have to be honest, it's hella fun to play too. Not having to think anout color rrquirements makes playing a snow mana base really really easy. I guess that's an aspect to intensely criticise too: Playing Astrolabe decks feels banal and dumbed-down.
Run Cruel Ultimatum. You know you want to do it. DO IT! I will definitely draft a Cruel Ultimatum snow list!
That actually sounds fun, except Grixis doesn't have any real snow payoff.

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Post by Spsiegel1987 » 1 year ago

TheBoulderer wrote:
1 year ago
Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
After playing more with the card, I think Astrolabe is exactly the kind of gas fair Modern decks need to keep up. As powerful as it is, Astrolabe definitely comes at a cost, and it is very easy to punish Astrolabe mana decks for it. Getting your Astrolabe destroyed or discarded can be devastating for your opening plan.

Astrolabe should become a staple to Modern manabases like fetchlands are. It is probably too powerful from a theory perspective, but what it does to the format is entirely positive.
What on earth have you been smoking? These arguments are so backwards I feel personally offended by them.

Thank you. I literally was about to type the exact same thing.

Let me bring in my stony silence and look extremely stupid. Most hands discarding the astrolabe isnt quite enough, as coatl will 2 for 1 you.

If every midrange player needs to play astrolabe, this seems like a problem, no? Turn 1 mana fix, turn 2 strix with flash and CA Is devastating.

Jund players are literally jamming in 2 copies of boil and a choke, willy edel is main boarding ashiok.

The entire shadow discord and discord cabal agree that the entire archetype is dead, except for zooicide.

The guy known for playing broken combos are jamming bant


I think if bant wasnt so absurdly priced in both paper and mtgo wed see a much more alarming number.

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Post by Tomatotime » 1 year ago

Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
Turn 1 mana fix, turn 2 strix with flash and CA Is devastating.
Uhhhh.....What? Have you played Modern before?
Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
Jund players are literally jamming in 2 copies of boil and a choke, willy edel is main boarding ashiok.
People mainboarding Ashioks has nothing to do with Astrolable lol.
Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
The guy known for playing broken combos are jamming bant
Who exactly?
Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
I think if bant wasnt so absurdly priced in both paper and mtgo wed see a much more alarming number.
Snakes at least are still very cheap in paper, and if this quarantine goes on for a while I assume that will continue.

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

I already said Stony Silence effects are devastating against decks that run other artifacts in conjunction with Astrolabe, i.e. SFM and Urza decks. I agree Stony vs Bant Control probably is not worth it; on the other hand, Karn GC is a mainboard card that can severely punish any Astrolabe deck.

Not every midrange deck has to run Astrolabe. Case in Point; Jund, which is doing very well. On that subject, having to run sideboard cards vs a popular archetype is not a bad thing.

Spsiegel only seems to have an axe to grind with Bant Control and not really Astrolabe. If Bant Control would turn out to be a problem, it is not Astrolabe's fault, but Mystic Sanctuary.

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Post by Spsiegel1987 » 1 year ago

Ugh. Mystic santuarary was another great 2019 design.


I dont love what astrolabe does in general.

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
TheBoulderer wrote:
1 year ago
I just went to the dark side and tried some Grixis Snow Kroxa with Blood Moon and Dead of Winter mainboard. And although its probably not great vs Bant Snow due to Path, I experienced the utter stupidity of escaping a Titan with a few Snow-covered basics + Astrolabe.

The conclusion is that even in an archetype that is not primed to take advantage of Snow, a Snow manabase is ridiculously powerful and probably strictly better than a normal one.

And I have to be honest, it's hella fun to play too. Not having to think anout color rrquirements makes playing a snow mana base really really easy. I guess that's an aspect to intensely criticise too: Playing Astrolabe decks feels banal and dumbed-down.
Run Cruel Ultimatum. You know you want to do it. DO IT! I will definitely draft a Cruel Ultimatum snow list!
That actually sounds fun, except Grixis doesn't have any real snow payoff.
I think mainboarding Dead of Winter as a better Damnation is actually worth it. Maybe not like Coatl, but been able to run 2x 3-mana boardwipes is actually very relevant. You don't need many more pay-offs that 4x Astrolabes + 1 more card to justify it imho. The main pay-off is the ability to run wildly costed cards without running a very painful manabase.
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
TheBoulderer wrote:
1 year ago
I just went to the dark side and tried some Grixis Snow Kroxa with Blood Moon and Dead of Winter mainboard. And although its probably not great vs Bant Snow due to Path, I experienced the utter stupidity of escaping a Titan with a few Snow-covered basics + Astrolabe.

The conclusion is that even in an archetype that is not primed to take advantage of Snow, a Snow manabase is ridiculously powerful and probably strictly better than a normal one.

And I have to be honest, it's hella fun to play too. Not having to think anout color rrquirements makes playing a snow mana base really really easy. I guess that's an aspect to intensely criticise too: Playing Astrolabe decks feels banal and dumbed-down.
Run Cruel Ultimatum. You know you want to do it. DO IT! I will definitely draft a Cruel Ultimatum snow list!
That actually sounds fun, except Grixis doesn't have any real snow payoff.
Cruel Ultimatum IS the payoff :)

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

There has been a lot of theoretical argument about Astrolabe's impact on Modern, as well as some half-formed comparisons to OUaT. Specifically, and especially on Reddit, I've seen a lot of players complain that Astrolabe is getting an unfair pass when OUaT got banned for similar prevalence. We know OUaT was banned for multiple, overlapping reasons. First, because it was "...one of the most played cards in Modern, contributing to several of the most popular and highest winning decks." Second, this in turn "...allow(ed) these decks to much more reliably enact their early-game plan compared to other archetypes in the metagame, leading to less divergent gameplay paths." Finally, this "pose(d) a design constraint in making it too easy to assemble creature- and land-based combinations." I'm not convinced Astrolabe has the second effect at all, because Astrolabe decks tend to have much more divergent, interactive gameplay paths than ramp decks, and the third effect isn't applicable. But it's definitely important to see just how prevalent/successful OUaT was across the metagame, as that first test could certainly apply to Astrolabe as well. Ultimately, this will establish a baseline of comparison to AA.

To do this, I compiled all MTGO Prelims, Premiers, and Challenges from 01/16/2020 - 03/08/2020. I ignored Leagues because these are highly curated datasets; the others show all 3-2+ decks or all T32/T16 decks, representing a less curated dataset. This still won't capture the 2-3 or worse decks, or the decks placing 33rd or worse, but it still represents a good estimate of the true population. We could always account for the rest with margin of errors.

Here are some stats from this analysis. I have not yet repeated this for Astrolabe over any time period:

% of all MTGO decks playing OUaT: 37% (380/1020)
OUaT confidence interval for all MTGO: 34.3% < x < 40.2%
Avg copies of OUaT in decks running it: 3.5
% of MTGO Challenge/Premier decks playing OUaT: 41.7% (120/288)
% of MTGO Preliminary decks playing OUaT: 35.5% (260/732)

It still remains to be seen if Astrolabe commits other violations beyond prevalence. But at least now we have a baseline to compare it to. If Astrolabe is consistently showing up in 34%+ of MTGO Prelim/Premier/Challenge decks, that's an orange flag. We can elevate that risk if Astrolabe gets closer to 37% or exceeds 40%. I will need to repeat this analysis for some other Modern staples, like Astrolabe, Lightning Bolt as a control, and others, to get more benchmarks. But hopefully, this will give this discussion a little more grounding in the current evidence and not just opinions about what is/is not good for Modern.
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
After playing more with the card, I think Astrolabe is exactly the kind of gas fair Modern decks need to keep up. As powerful as it is, Astrolabe definitely comes at a cost, and it is very easy to punish Astrolabe mana decks for it. Getting your Astrolabe destroyed or discarded can be devastating for your opening plan, and especially against the decks that run it in conjunction with any other artifact plan (SFM package or Urza package), Stony Silence or Karn GC is devastating, as is anything that stops library searching since most Astrolabe lists run 8-10 fetchlands.

Astrolabe should become a staple to Modern manabases like fetchlands are. It is probably too powerful from a theory perspective, but what it does to the format is entirely positive. It promotes fair magic, it gives reasons to play both multicolor or two-color manabases, can get counterplayed mainboard, and does not boost one color too much over the others. If there is one aspect of the new Astrolabe manabases that truly is a problem is that it goes hand in hand with Mystic Sanctuary, which is just an absurd card that should not exist.
I can tell you, having jammed about two dozen matches with Bant Snow over the last week or so, literally no one has ever destroyed an Astrolabe for me except one random BR Skelemental/Kroxa deck because they didn't have anything better to do with their K Command, and I hadn't fetched a white source yet.

But overall, people are not respecting that card, and letting it stick around smooths out SO MANY THINGS. It's not just fixing mana, but like, T3feri, bounce my Astrolabe to draw a card, replay Astrolabe to draw another card, these kinds of lines are GASSSS.

I can't wait til it (or Uro or whatever else I spent actual money on) gets banned and I get to wallow in another wave of frustration and disappointment. A trend that has defined most of my time in Modern.
Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
Spsiegel only seems to have an axe to grind with Bant Control and not really Astrolabe. If Bant Control would turn out to be a problem, it is not Astrolabe's fault, but Mystic Sanctuary.
It's absolutely Astrolabe's fault. Bant Snow is SUPER color intensive. It's trying to cast 1WWU alongside UUU and 1UUU while escaping UUGG (which first needs 1UG to cast) with the intention of fetching basics to support deathtouch on your UG cantrip on turn 2, after making sure you have W available for Path turn 1. Astrolabe is essential for making all those wonky, color-hungry cards work.

Edit: Side note: I personally absolutely hate snow basics. I hate them with the entire core of my soul. Basic lands used to be a form of self-expression and one of the few genuine flair/personalization choices that you could make while deckbuilding (looking at you, tilt-inducing 20 mis-matched basic mountains!). I personally wrestled many times with many different sets of basics for my decks before settling on my defining characteristic being foil signed BFZ full arts. But I also loved to swap into Unstable full arts, as well as a random old pile of Mercadian Masques foils I had. Now? Well, you have MH1 snow lands or old snow lands. And.... that's it. And for non-snow decks, it's almost strictly worse NOT to run snow basics in order to bluff Astrolabes and snow cards. Luckily none of this matters on MTGO, but if I were to buy into Bant Snow in paper, it makes me a sad panda to be forced to run what I consider bland and ugly lands that literally everyone is running the same copies of.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
But hopefully, this will give this discussion a little more grounding in the current evidence and not just opinions about what is/is not good for Modern.
Opinions about what is and is not good for Modern come with the unspoken caveat that they are subjective opinions, that cannot be proven/unproven any more than you can disprove sombody's favourite colour is the wrong or right choice. Numbers about a card being played are meaningless by themselves until a context is applied, one that will also often be subjective. You can say that a card was banned when it hit X percentage, and thus a card is in danger because it hits a similar percentage, that is a fair enough use of data, but all of the assumptions fall apart when we look at the numbers for Brainstorm in Legacy. Ultimately WOTC ban cards not just on numbers, but by a sort of opaque mish mash, much of which will be down to a group of people's ideas and opinions on what constitutes a healthy pillar of whatever the format is. Hence Brainstorm in Legacy. How honest are WOTC when banning cards is another key point- how often do they mean what they say? We certainly need to be careful when assuming past behaviour by WOTC will be replicated, we all know about the inductivist turkey.

As a very vaguely related aside, one of the big issues in the western world is everything is sold on data, where people use numbers to prove things such as which teaching method is best for teaching reading or how people behave in the face of an event, an often the data is used to give an illusionary scientific sheen to quite often dodgy mickey mouse research in education, advertising, behavioural science etc. In some respects I would rather people churn out subjective Op-Eds than attempt to convince me with numerical prestidigitation as often happens, especially around politically sensitive issues, not that this is the case here, of course.....)

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Post by Spsiegel1987 » 1 year ago

I think a ban on Uro would be silly, I consider the card powerful but fair.

It's exactly as you said, your deck is trying to cast Uro, path, turn 2 Coatl, Teferi, Cryptic Command, Archmage Charm. I mean, if we thought Jund had a greedy mana base, then what would we say about this? I have an axe to grind with Bant because it takes all these ridiculous amazing greedy cards, and combines it into one super fair deck that trumps the rest by a mile. I cannot tell you how foolish it feels to be casting Kroxa against your Uro opponent.

I also cannot begin to explain how terrifying it is to see a topdecked fetchland in a grindy game. Cfusion forgot to mention that the mana-base also works while playing 8 plus copies of snapcaster mage in the deck.

This isn't acceptable.

I wonder how much of Sheridan's data may slightly skew the fact the deck is very expensive in paper and mtgo? I think we are talking easily over 2 grand, right? That's a lot of money to drop to chase the top tier deck.


Astrolabe has to be respected, but it's also going to cripple you to destroy/discard an astrolabe with how much CA the deck accumulates. I think I've only seen the deck stumble...like...twice? As a shadow deck, the matchup is easily a 90/10 split. The archetype is EXTREMELY dead, not that Shadow archetypes deserves or warrants to exist forever.

The card is almost so ridiculous it makes me want to say, "Ok, well, you may as well bring DRS back to modern so we can have two flavors of fair decks, DRS or Astrolabe. Obviously, this is a ridiculous notion and I'm not demanding DRS be unbanned.

I really think if you want to be competitive you should be playing:

Bant, E-Tron, Titan. Urza or Prowess. The rest of the archetypes are just flavor distinctions in my mind.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

I think if it was "easy" to hate on Astrolabe decks, someone would have put Karn, the Great Creator in their own Astrolabe deck for the mirrors. It's not an unknown quantity - it was already done in Sultai Urza just a while back. Karn, the Great Creator is still powerful, even withou Mycosynth Lattice. I have seen the new OUaT-less Amulet decks go back to Karn, TGC recently.

On another note, personally I like Snow lands. I had been running Snow lands in many of my decks already, other than when I wanted to really pimp my lands (special foils or gurus).
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
Cfusion forgot to mention that the mana-base also works while playing 8 plus copies of snapcaster mage in the deck.
Wait what? How does it play 8 copies of snapcaster mage?
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
Cfusion forgot to mention that the mana-base also works while playing 8 plus copies of snapcaster mage in the deck.
Wait what? How does it play 8 copies of snapcaster mage?
I assume it's either Mystic Sanctuary, Kologhan's Command in conjunction with Cryptic Command, and maybe Mission Briefing, lol. :P
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by Spsiegel1987 » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
Cfusion forgot to mention that the mana-base also works while playing 8 plus copies of snapcaster mage in the deck.
Wait what? How does it play 8 copies of snapcaster mage?
8x fetchlands
2-3 Mystic Sanctuaries
2x actual snapcaster mages.

You're right, I meant to say 12 copies.


Also, going to the recent preliminary results, I said the decks worth playing before those results.

As much as I complain, I feel I have been very on the nose with most of modern's ban predictions in it's existence minus things like Mycrowhatitcalled and things like that.

The meta is definitely solved, I think Urza may be the only piece still being toyed with.



Also, who on here feels a deck should have the ability to play Cryptic Command and W6 in the same deck with little to no penalty? Or that it's ok that 3 and 4 color decks are playing Blood Moon with no constrictions?


This card destroys the color pie. THAT is my ultimate problem with it. Bant just happens to be the face of the problem card; surprisingly not Whirza (which I had less issues with due to 2x colors and it's slow clock).

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