[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
T3feri may be a problem, but Cat Combo exists on the same curve timeline as Twin would have if resolving a T3 to protect, and basically does not exist. So who knows how that would affect Twin. Additionally, both of these force 3 colors (or 4 if they want to run both), which goes opposite of what decks running Cryptic and Blood Moon are capable of in a world where Astrolabe isn't breaking convention (and we literally just had several pages of other users complaining about how bad Astrolabe and was for the game as a whole).

These problems are with broken new cards and not Twin. I don't understand how this is so difficult for others to wrap their heads around in this regard. 2019 and 2020 is filled with stupid, broken, busted things that have torn this entire game into pieces and resulted in unprecedented bans across every constructed format that can have things banned. And we're worried about a card that slots into what is currently a TERRIBLE deck and wins with a FRAGILE combo that needs to jump through hoops to MAYBE run some of those BROKEN NEW cards? Maybe the problem here is the BROKEN NEW CARDS and not Twin. But hey, what do I care? Nobody actually reads or listens to my actual points anyway. They gloss over everything I write and then dismiss it as "u mad cuz no twin lulz." How can productive discussion happen at that point?
1. This should go without saying, but Twin operates on the opponents turn for the win, more so than our turn. That is why it was unique, that is why it was irreplaceable. 'Combo Control' is the same general category for Inverter, Copy Cat, and Twin, but only Twin is played on the opponents turn. Astrolabe in place of Serum, would be a slam dunk if there was a desire for playing RUG, and honestly why wouldnt you? Veil would shut down counter magic, and Black or BG removal. Abrupt Decay? lol nope.

2. There is a fundamental shift between 2019, and pre-2019 Magic. There honest to god is, however we need to ask ourselves.

A: Will they ban 2019 and anything pushed in 2020.

OR

B: Will cards that have already been banned, remain banned.

Every invested person in this thread knows the answer.

Twin wont come back, and it's irrelevant why.
I mean if that is the case, then Forsythe needs to get his ass in gear and tell us what the vision for the format is. Because if all the broken garbage that was vomited onto us in the last year and a half is what they want, then I can swiftly and easily move on and just leave entirely. It's the uncertainty and blatant disregard for communication and information, which leads to wildly inconsistent and seemingly random and arbitrary decisions that is the most infuriating.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I can say with confidence, it will take years to remove 2019/20 impacts from Modern, assuming that they even want to.

EDIT: So I reinstalled MTGO to put together the Breach deck I'm thinking of, and...apparently I had sold and cashed out of it near completely. :omg:

Desire to buy in is low, we will see how the next few events shape up.
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
_________________________
On another topic. Is Primeval Titan safe to invest on right now? Or is he also in danger of becoming banned. I'm considering to buy a few, since he's affordable to the budget I have.
I'm definitely not saying that Amulet Titan is not good anymore because it certainly is, but with Once Upon a Time now banned, Amulet has been dropped a few notches. I would say that the ban hurt other Once Upon a Time decks a LOT more because they don't have backup, but Arcum's Astrolabe decks have moved up a notch since the banning. I've faced almost exclusively Astrolabe decks since.

On another note, I tested Amulet with Ancient Stirrings (again, I've done it before of course) and it felt sooooooo much worse with Once gone. It felt so bad that I decided to run some other decks for a while now, lol. :laugh:
alright, thanks for that. I'll consider giving primetime some budget. :)
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm

not really trying to join the debate, but I have been on this thread from the beginning and I observe that your anger // frustration.. the source.. the root of it all is not being able to play Twin. These twin debates that just keep coming back with nothing new added to the thread except toxicity. Right now, there seems to be really no chance, as wotc dislikes twin style, supporting this assumption is the immediate banning of Saheeli cat in pioneer. Maybe just wait patiently for Twin to be unban? Sfm and jace were eventually freed, who knows maybe 2 or 3 years from now, Twin will be let out again.
__________________________
See my comment directly above yours as the most relevant reply. But will also add specifically to the line: "there seems to be really no chance, as wotc dislikes twin style." Inverter combo in Pioneer is still one of (if not the) best deck, alongside various Heliod/Ballista combos. If they did not actually like those styles of decks, they had an opportunity to ban them a week ago (in an announcement where 9 other cards were banned). But if they were OK with that kind of gameplay, they also had the opportunity to unban Felidar Guardian, and didn't. The only conclusion I can draw is that WOTC holds no actual core values and acts in the moment; reactionary to public pressure. There is no actual consistency or connective criteria between bans anymore. They make it up as they go, pull whatever reasons they feel necessary to the moment, and then hope to never address it again. If that doesn't build a sense of unease and cynicism towards their ability to manage formats, I don't know what does. If my comments sound dreary, it's because WOTC's decisions do not inspire confidence or positivity.
On another topic. Is Primeval Titan safe to invest on right now? Or is he also in danger of becoming banned. I'm considering to buy a few, since he's affordable to the budget I have.
I have said this for a long time Modern is a format of Tier 2 piles and yet-to-be-banned decks, separated by a vast chasm in power difference. It has never been safe to invest into anything that does well. And nothing WOTC has ever done makes me believe otherwise.

Buy into it knowing that one day it will receive another ban. And just cross your fingers that the ban isn't debilitating enough to cause the kind of cynicism and frustration you see out of other victims.
heliod being a 2 card combo with ballista made me buy into angel-feeder instead of heliod. But I guess wotc likes Heliod, so they let him and his ballista stay around. no experience with Inverter, so no comment on that.

Not buying into Amulet Titan. I only want primetime to do something in a deck that our playgroup is testing. At worst, I will be losing about 12 dollars + shipping and post office fees if it get banned.

edit: the thread is like 200+ pages long. Imagine it peppered along the way with Twin debates - true story. At one point it becomes tiring, and later it becomes sickening. I hope wotc grants your wish soon, as these endless debates on a single card is not really productive. Everything has been said and rehashed mutliple times already.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
edit: the thread is like 200+ pages long. Imagine it peppered along the way with Twin debates - true story. At one point it becomes tiring, and later it becomes sickening. I hope wotc grants your wish soon, as these endless debates on a single card is not really productive. Everything has been said and rehashed mutliple times already.
My whole thing is that I just want there to be motivation for the format to slow down + be more interactive, and I want to play a flash/tempo game with snaps and bolts. One is a personal goal, one is a vision for a better Modern. If there's a way to accomplish both, I'm all for it. But if there's a way to accomplish that first one, I'm also for it. If that means allowing 4-color Blood Moon decks to be the norm, then I guess I have to shell out $700+ for W6s and Uros to cast alongside Blood Moon and Cryptic Command. Because hoo-boy does that stuff look sweet. At least until a piece either gets banned, or made irrelevant by another $50+ mythic that needs a playset. If this is the future of Modern.... :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
edit: the thread is like 200+ pages long. Imagine it peppered along the way with Twin debates - true story. At one point it becomes tiring, and later it becomes sickening. I hope wotc grants your wish soon, as these endless debates on a single card is not really productive. Everything has been said and rehashed mutliple times already.
My whole thing is that I just want there to be motivation for the format to slow down + be more interactive, and I want to play a flash/tempo game with snaps and bolts. One is a personal goal, one is a vision for a better Modern. If there's a way to accomplish both, I'm all for it. But if there's a way to accomplish that first one, I'm also for it. If that means allowing 4-color Blood Moon decks to be the norm, then I guess I have to shell out $700+ for W6s and Uros to cast alongside Blood Moon and Cryptic Command. Because hoo-boy does that stuff look sweet. At least until a piece either gets banned, or made irrelevant by another $50+ mythic that needs a playset. If this is the future of Modern.... :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:
WotC could make Modern more interactive without unbanning Twin, even if technically it probably should be unbanned. They could make fair decks good by the changes that I said, along with printings that push Jund. I think they're scared because they don't want a Jund monster like with DRS previously. What they fail to get and will continue to fail to get until Modern is dead is that the meta has changed and there are some 5,000 cards printed since, including Modern Horizon cards. Not to mention, they can do a Modern Horizons 2 and unban something like Green Sun's Zenith and something else to help sell it. We know Green Sun's Zenith is trash, but the hype may help get the set sold, even if the rest is just average. Not to mention, they have every opportunity to make the set waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than average. MH1 was a success, outside of Hogaak and Urza. :)
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
My whole thing is that I just want there to be motivation for the format to slow down + be more interactive, and I want to play a flash/tempo game with snaps and bolts. One is a personal goal, one is a vision for a better Modern. If there's a way to accomplish both, I'm all for it. But if there's a way to accomplish that first one, I'm also for it. If that means allowing 4-color Blood Moon decks to be the norm, then I guess I have to shell out $700+ for W6s and Uros to cast alongside Blood Moon and Cryptic Command. Because hoo-boy does that stuff look sweet. At least until a piece either gets banned, or made irrelevant by another $50+ mythic that needs a playset. If this is the future of Modern.... :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:
A company hearing that folks will be happy if 'they just have to shell out for the best new cards' in a non-rotational format?

Sounds like a corporate win. It absolutely has been the future of Modern, since Eldrazi. 'What are the new cards, what new decks have been pushed.'

Amulet was always good. It was just broken decks hiding it.

1. Modern has increased in power level.
2. The ban list makes ZERO sense, even in Pioneer.
3. Neither of these things will change.

Strap in, and play those powerful decks, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we have both been down this road.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Strap in, and play those powerful decks, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we have both been down this road.
Nah, I'm good. The point of a non-rotating format is supposed to be that you can just buy into a deck and get to keep/play it. Between inevitable bans and planned obsolescence, that is no longer the case. Again, just waiting for Forsythe to bring clarity. But I can't imagine why anyone would be dumping money into Modern right now.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Strap in, and play those powerful decks, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we have both been down this road.
Nah, I'm good. The point of a non-rotating format is supposed to be that you can just buy into a deck and get to keep/play it. Between inevitable bans and planned obsolescence, that is no longer the case. Again, just waiting for Forsythe to bring clarity. But I can't imagine why anyone would be dumping money into Modern right now.
It's possible you understand this, but I still need to highlight that this problem is shared by all supported formats, not just Modern. Notably, Pioneer and Standard have these exact same issues (planed obsolescence and inevitable bans). Legacy does not, but that appears to have little to do with format balance/diversity/health and everything to do with a clear identity, an enfranchised playerbase Wizards is moving away from, and a lack of Wizards support or focus. I guarantee you if Legacy had regular Wizards support, especially at the GP/PT/product-design levels we've seen with Modern, it would have just as many bans and upheavals. It's important to note this because it helps us understand this particular problem isn't unique to Modern. This is a Magic-wide and Wizards-wide problem.

At the same time, I'm curious if you and other current Modern critics would be comfortable with a metagame that looks more or less like the one in today's Challenge:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 20-03-15?j


All disclaimers about single Challenge results aside, if the overall metagame hypothetically leaned towards this type of breakdown over the next few months, how would that be a bad thing for Modern? Almost all of these decks are old-time Modern staples with recent upgrades (Urza being a big exception), and this Challenge in particular represents a broad range of strategic and archetype diversity. If Modern continued in that direction, would you still identify the same health issues you've mentioned in most posts over the last number of pages? This kind of metagame appears to heavily reward interaction and tight decisionmaking, perhaps with the exception of miserable T3feri. Personally, if Modern's core looks like this balance of control/midrange, ramp, and aggro, I would be very happy with the format going forward.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

I'm on mobile, juggling watching our little one right now, but the short version is that my issues have evolved past just a meta of terrible decks. There are some pretty awesome options in there, to be honest. My issue comes from will it stay that way? There is a complete lack of credibility and faith in buying into anything. Players have to drop literally another thousand dollars to pick up multiple playsets of expensive mythics in order to enjoy some of those decks, even after already spending thousands on other decks. If I'm going to do that, I want to do so with the peace of mind that I'm not lighting that money on fire. I have no faith in any semblance of being able to just buy and play a deck. And if I'm going to throw away $1,000 or more, then I'd rather take the third driver slot for the Willow Springs endurance race one of my coworkers is taking his race car to.

So yeah, I think that "meta" looks fine, I guess. But no, it does not quell any of my concerns that remain about Modern (or apparently Magic in general). I personally think it's disgusting the rate at which decks are destroyed or made irrelevant in what is supposed to be a non-rotating format. I expect that kind of nonsense in Standard, but to see it here makes me want to quit the game entirely.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Yeah, its not Modern anymore. Its Magic. It really really is. 2020 is supposedly going to be high power as well, so continue to expect this 'issue' to persist.

That said, most of those decks are tolerable to play against. I'm more or less fine with Modern as it sits in that meta.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Jund also seems like a tier 1 deck; we all know how much this is going to last. i also expect jund players to flee into those snow piles.
Why play Jund (a pile of good cards) when you can play 3-5 color piles of good cards *and Blood Moon*?

Side note, COVID-19 may be causing skyrocketing MTGO prices. Just looked up building one of those piles online... W6 is $114/ea, Ice-Fang is $45, Uro is $50/ea, FoN is $90, and even Archmages Charm jumped to $15/ea. Good times. Very much pushing me to sell what I have.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Yes, many of the prices are out of control on MTGO, which is funny because remember when the market crashed? Shoulda bought up everything I could have at that point.

Oh and you play jund instead of that other stuff because there is no meaningful reason to not, as long as you like it and have the cards.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Jund also seems like a tier 1 deck; we all know how much this is going to last. i also expect jund players to flee into those snow piles.
Why play Jund (a pile of good cards) when you can play 3-5 color piles of good cards *and Blood Moon*?

Side note, COVID-19 may be causing skyrocketing MTGO prices. Just looked up building one of those piles online... W6 is $114/ea, Ice-Fang is $45, Uro is $50/ea, FoN is $90, and even Archmages Charm jumped to $15/ea. Good times. Very much pushing me to sell what I have.
COVID 19 is probably the main cause of the increase in prices as people are wanting to stay at home and not go to events.

We were actually having a similar discussion at FNM though. 3-5 colour midrange piles seem really good because astrolab allows them to run blood moon too in addition to good cards in those colours

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
All disclaimers about single Challenge results aside, if the overall metagame hypothetically leaned towards this type of breakdown over the next few months, how would that be a bad thing for Modern? Almost all of these decks are old-time Modern staples with recent upgrades (Urza being a big exception), and this Challenge in particular represents a broad range of strategic and archetype diversity. If Modern continued in that direction, would you still identify the same health issues you've mentioned in most posts over the last number of pages? This kind of metagame appears to heavily reward interaction and tight decisionmaking, perhaps with the exception of miserable T3feri. Personally, if Modern's core looks like this balance of control/midrange, ramp, and aggro, I would be very happy with the format going forward.
not much I can say about that except, great results. Many familiar decks.
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Post by TheBoulderer » 1 year ago

2 points:

1) Astrolabe is obviously too prevalent, and will continue to be. Why play non-snow 3c decks indeed. There is literally no reason. Cost of playing astrolabe is close to 0.

2) The only question that remains to be answered is: Can some of these 3-4c decks, say a Temur midrange deck, a Bant Control deck, and some form of Urza remain viable when Astrolabe is banned? Because that would be ideal. They are cool decks, but they are too consistent mana-wise as well as splashing ridiculous cards like Blood Moon, Thrun (seen it out of Jeskai Snow).

Personally, I think Bant Stoneblade would remain a tier deck for sure. Uro and T3feri are good enough. Icefang Coatl might become hard to pull off. But then again, Simic Uro would retain access to Coatl for sure as a 2-color deck. Straight UW Control would replace some of the snow decks, which is also good news in my book. Maybe we'd see some jeskai control again. I can't predict what would happen to Urza strategies, but have to blieve Urza decks would still be tier decks by the sheer power of Urza itself.

Have to come back to Veil of Summer though:

There are 20 green decks in there, and 17 can effectively use Veil of Summer (the other 3 are Dredge which doesn't need it).
15/17 do so, running 2-4 copies. Didn't do an average, but 2 is the most common, quite a few run 3 and one runs 4.

Bottom line: roughly 50% of decks are running about 2,5 copies of Veil of Summer. Personally I think the only reason most "only" run 2 is because drawing 1 is enough to win a game. You typically get ahead so much by resolving just 1 that you just dont need any more to easily win those matchups. This means the format is extremely hostile to UB-strategies, including but not limited to Mill, UB Control, Sultai, Grixis (shadow and control), Esper, even 8rack (oh darn^^).

There is no argument to keep Veil in the format. There is no potentially too powerful strategy Veil has to counter-balance, no decks that can't succeed without it, and Veil has straight pushed a bunch of decks out of the format, with no chance of a comback as long as Veil stays legal.

Yes the ban list should stay as short as possible, but those 2 cards are just absurd imo. Veil of Summer is more obviously offensive, but Astrolabe excerts its power on a different, more fundamental level.

I do hope, and I also fully expect both cards to be banned within this year. Hopefully sooner than later.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

If Astrolabe is enough to maintain diversity though, is it a net negative? I think its worth discussing.
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Post by TheBoulderer » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
If Astrolabe is enough to maintain diversity though, is it a net negative? I think its worth discussing.
I think connecting Astrolabe to diversity is a bit tricky though. Astrolabe takes kind of an innoxous place in snow strategies, as a color fixer and cantrip. It's not a win condition, it doesn't strictly ramp, it doesn't gain card advantage.

But tbh, wether i face snow stonblade, or bant snow control, or Uro midrange, that's not diversity. The decks are somewhat different, but not really. The difference between them is no larger than between Boros Burn and Mono R Prowess. And now imagine there were 5 variants of RDW, one Boros, one Mono R Burn,one Mono R Prowess, one splashing green for bodies, one splashing black for more Lava Darts. They are somewhat different, but they share many cards and have almost identical strategies.

The line between Snow Midrange and Snow control is extremely blurry. Bant Midrange - Simic Urza. Those are genuinly different decks. But there's a mass of UWx and UGx snow decks taking up a humongous chunk of the meta, and tbh, that is not what diversity is. To me at least.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

Veil is awful. Full stop. I hope that things is banned by the end of the year.

As for Astrolabe, it's hard to separate out the experimental diversity (I.e. people who are playing around with Astrolabe in different builds) from the true diversity (I.e. different viable Astrolabe decks coexisting). It's possible Astrolabe only supports 2 viable decks: Simic Urza and Bant Snow Control. That might be the extent of its diversity, with everything else just being brewers and grinders experimenting with suboptimal builds during downtime. If that is the case, and those two decks are taking up 20%+ of the metagame, that's cause for alarm and a good sign Astrolabe should and probably will be banned. This is doubly true if the non-snow decks, like Jund, Azorius Control/Stoneblade, Izzet Control, and others all get pushed out because Snow is just better.

On the other hand, it's possible there truly are a bunch of distinct Astrolabe decks that can coexist but won't without the artifact. This means all the weird 4c experiments, different Urza decks, Snowblades, and others live peacefully alongside Jund, traditional Stoneblade, Izzet Control, and others without taking up too much metagame share. In that world, Astrolabe is just another Modern staple and should/will not be banned. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which way the metagame is leaning now. We are 1 week out from the B&R and have no major paper events on the horizon due to COVID19. This means we will need to do a lot of waiting to know what happens next.
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Veil is awful. Full stop. I hope that things is banned by the end of the year.

As for Astrolabe, it's hard to separate out the experimental diversity (I.e. people who are playing around with Astrolabe in different builds) from the true diversity (I.e. different viable Astrolabe decks coexisting). It's possible Astrolabe only supports 2 viable decks: Simic Urza and Bant Snow Control. That might be the extent of its diversity, with everything else just being brewers and grinders experimenting with suboptimal builds during downtime. If that is the case, and those two decks are taking up 20%+ of the metagame, that's cause for alarm and a good sign Astrolabe should and probably will be banned. This is doubly true if the non-snow decks, like Jund, Azorius Control/Stoneblade, Izzet Control, and others all get pushed out because Snow is just better.

On the other hand, it's possible there truly are a bunch of distinct Astrolabe decks that can coexist but won't without the artifact. This means all the weird 4c experiments, different Urza decks, Snowblades, and others live peacefully alongside Jund, traditional Stoneblade, Izzet Control, and others without taking up too much metagame share. In that world, Astrolabe is just another Modern staple and should/will not be banned. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which way the metagame is leaning now. We are 1 week out from the B&R and have no major paper events on the horizon due to COVID19. This means we will need to do a lot of waiting to know what happens next.
100% agree on veil.

The reasons you stated about astrolab is a reason why I'm still not sure what to think on the card or if I think it should be banned. are people playing it because it's absurd or do they just wanna try it out to see how good it is? I don't think I can answer that myself.

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Post by TheBoulderer » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Veil is awful. Full stop. I hope that things is banned by the end of the year.

As for Astrolabe, it's hard to separate out the experimental diversity (I.e. people who are playing around with Astrolabe in different builds) from the true diversity (I.e. different viable Astrolabe decks coexisting). It's possible Astrolabe only supports 2 viable decks: Simic Urza and Bant Snow Control. That might be the extent of its diversity, with everything else just being brewers and grinders experimenting with suboptimal builds during downtime. If that is the case, and those two decks are taking up 20%+ of the metagame, that's cause for alarm and a good sign Astrolabe should and probably will be banned. This is doubly true if the non-snow decks, like Jund, Azorius Control/Stoneblade, Izzet Control, and others all get pushed out because Snow is just better.

On the other hand, it's possible there truly are a bunch of distinct Astrolabe decks that can coexist but won't without the artifact. This means all the weird 4c experiments, different Urza decks, Snowblades, and others live peacefully alongside Jund, traditional Stoneblade, Izzet Control, and others without taking up too much metagame share. In that world, Astrolabe is just another Modern staple and should/will not be banned. Unfortunately, it's impossible to know which way the metagame is leaning now. We are 1 week out from the B&R and have no major paper events on the horizon due to COVID19. This means we will need to do a lot of waiting to know what happens next.
yea that makes a lot of sense. It's weird with Astrolabe. There's a flurry of snow decks and it makes me feel like all bets are off with deck building, that you can now jam any greedy mana cost cards into a deck and it may not be good, but it certainly won't fail because of clunky mana.

That's just been a fundamental part of deck building and mtg in general for me: you can try and push your mana base, but at some point you will either be damaging yourself too much. and lose to aggro, or you won't be able to cadt your spells reliably anymore. These kinds of considerations are in the DNA of the game, and Astrolabe dissolves the whole topic. It's almost a problem seperate from being potentially too powerful.

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Absolutely, makes me wonder if a Stony Silence can start slipping into main, and causing some damage.
UR Control UR

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
So, is Modern beginning to feel like "play Astrolabe or go home"? I will answer that question after today's PTQ has been published.

Prediction: Yes.
There are currently many non-Astrolabe decks in Modern, and have been for months. There are also viable blue decks without Astrolabe and viable midrange/control decks without Astrolabe. This has been true since January. We need many more events to determine if Astrolabe homogenizes all fair decks or if it's just one of many pieces fair decks can run. The results of either yesterday's Challenge and/or today's PTQ will not change our need to wait for more data. This is especially true because Astrolabe has seemingly slowed the format down considerably without also Elkifying the format in the process. The format hasn't seen this many fair decks in weekly Challenges since early 2018, and this has remained a consistent complaint about Modern for years. We can't just leap onto another ban train with this limited data to attack a card which is directly improving one of Modern's worst image issues.
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ThatStoryTeller
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Post by ThatStoryTeller » 1 year ago

honestly i have been thinking of running astrolabe and snow lands just to get more consistent UUU for archmage's charm and cryptic in a deck running mutavault, but the icefang coatl astrolabe snowlands package seems to the best advantage engine to play to keep up with the format, and people are just testing the limits of the engine.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

ThatStoryTeller wrote:
1 year ago
honestly i have been thinking of running astrolabe and snow lands just to get more consistent UUU for archmage's charm and cryptic in a deck running mutavault, but the icefang coatl astrolabe snowlands package seems to the best advantage engine to play to keep up with the format, and people are just testing the limits of the engine.
A playset of Ice-Fangs online is now $165, despite being $5 a piece in paper. So something must be catching on.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Absolutely, makes me wonder if a Stony Silence can start slipping into main, and causing some damage.
I don't think it can. Here's the issue. The Astrolabe decks hit on many axis. They have graveyard cards like Emry and Uro. They have big hitters like Urza, Jace, Cryptic Command/Mystic Sanctuary, and they can counter and discard everything that you possibly can have. Your best chance is probably to Aggro rush them and make sure Uro does not come into play. Either that or Combo as quickly as you can and try to dodge Force of Negation or Veil of Summer it (cough, cough Neoform).
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
So, is Modern beginning to feel like "play Astrolabe or go home"? I will answer that question after today's PTQ has been published.

Prediction: Yes.
Your prediction is correct. :)

*The interesting part is that the Astrolabe decks have a lot of play to them. They make Modern not so stale, as there are tons, yes, TONS of different lines and deck lists that you can throw together. The issue, if there is one, is that Astrolabe is becoming way to prevalent. I think that Astrolabe is on the cusp of being banned. It's close. I knew OUaT needed a ban, but Astrolabe is a lot tougher to decipher because there will be fewer decks if it's banned. But maybe there may be MORE decks that are viable in the meta and that's what is important in the end, right?
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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