[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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ktkenshinx
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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

Also, OH BOY OH BOY!!!

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... uncement?j

Once Upon a Time is BANNED in Modern

(Changes to other formats too, but interestingly NOT Pioneer??)
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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

thank goodness Astrolabe is safe. Not even mentioned there. time to play some more good snow. :grin:
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

Glad I didn't get a playset of Once Upon a Time :)

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Comical to assume it's safe after what they said about OuaT. :p

The notes on Pioneer are interesting, but the very clear disconnect between things like Inverter and Copy Cat seem...weird. Was Copy Cat actually better than the rest? Is it because of going infinite?

Seems off.
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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Breach I am surprised at, no action on Pioneer is a little odd, but they probably want to cool the bans in that format now it is regular.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Not unhappy with these bans, well the ones I understand. Brawl I am clueless on.
I got a bit nervous about Twin, but if it is ever based on real inside info the associated hate cards like Torpor orb or Force of V would pop. Delisting and a little bit of speccing responsible there.
Last edited by drmarkb 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

when is the next ban announcement?
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Post by Spsiegel1987 » 1 year ago

I sold all of my OUATs on mtgo on Saturday after Regionals. They didn't break the bank on paper, and I made more than enough in store credit at my LGS playing them to not feel bad about it.

I'm a little shocked by no pioneer banned. Totally swung and missed at that prediction.

I was on 4C Shadow with OUAT. I think between that maybe being dead and GDS being unplayable, according to the top Shadow players, I may be relegated to regular old Jund again. Too much Bant Control/4 c midrange on paper and MTGO to keep playing a depowered shadow deck

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Post by Mikefon » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
when is the next ban announcement?
They'll tell us a week in advance.

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

okay, thanks for that.

really feel relieved today. time to get some good sleep.
And tomorrow, gonna plan what upgrades to do. ^___^
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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

What another utter disappointment. Again with no relevant commentary on format health or the direction they want for Modern.

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pierreb
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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

Better than nothing.

Astrolabe: I understand people on both sides of the debate. The thing is, astrolabe doesn't help struggling decks, like control, play a larger diversity of card. It helps *any* deck do that. Is astrolable okay when it helps weak deck but bad when it's an already tier-1 deck being helped? I'm in the too-good-mana-fixing camp. It's a card that cannot ever be a problem by itself, it never wins a game in any way, it's what it enables that is wrong.

Veil, Teferi: again, I understand that people might have no problem with these. I wish they'd be banned just for being design mistakes. Veil is too good for 1 mana, Teferi precludes responses. To note, Teferi is made better by the presence of astrolabe, its color requirements lessened. See? That's why astro is bad.

Like Ymlr said, DRS is no astrolabe.

Edit: astrolable would probably be a fine card if it were like star: a one-shot mana fixing effect. (AFAIK, there are no cards like that, star, sphere, etc. They either cost more or draw the card on sacrifice only.)

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Considering DRS in Pioneer (no fetches, blah blah blah) I honestly wonder at its power level respective to Astrolabe.
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Post by CurdBros » 1 year ago

pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
Better than nothing.

Astrolabe: I understand people on both sides of the debate. The thing is, astrolabe doesn't help struggling decks, like control, play a larger diversity of card. It helps *any* deck do that. Is astrolable okay when it helps weak deck but bad when it's an already tier-1 deck being helped? I'm in the too-good-mana-fixing camp. It's a card that cannot ever be a problem by itself, it never wins a game in any way, it's what it enables that is wrong.

Veil, Teferi: again, I understand that people might have no problem with these. I wish they'd be banned just for being design mistakes. Veil is too good for 1 mana, Teferi precludes responses. To note, Teferi is made better by the presence of astrolabe, its color requirements lessened. See? That's why astro is bad.

Like Ymlr said, DRS is no astrolabe.

Edit: astrolable would probably be a fine card if it were like star: a one-shot mana fixing effect. (AFAIK, there are no cards like that, star, sphere, etc. They either cost more or draw the card on sacrifice only.)
I agree on Astrolabe. I fear it will never be obvious enough for WOTC to ban it, but we are seeing way to many 4 color "blood moon" decks. The sentence 4 color blood moon decks should never exist in modern. That is when the fixing has gotten a little out of control. Astrolabe is not causing any major issues so, therefore, I totally understand not banning it. I just personally think it makes mana fixing a bit to easy. It has so far promoted more 4 color "control" or "good stuff" decks so in that sense it's not to bad because those decks at least typically interact in the early game. I do think you are correct that there is an argument for banning it and a valid argument for saying it doesn't need to be banned. Astrolabe is one of those cards that comes down to personal preference I think. Those style of cards typically don't get banned. I don't see astrolabe getting banned, but I would not be sad to see it go, I would actually be somewhat happy.

As for DRS. I honestly am not sure yet on that one. My first inclination is that it would be fine right now. It nerfs some of graveyard heavy decks a bit like the thopter decks, underworld breach decks, dredge, etc. and in general it typically goes in decks that want to interact. I would actually like to see if it is too good again. I know it's a super powerful 1 drop "planeswalker", but I do think GB decks could use something like that. There is no doubt it would be a top 10 card in modern, but the question is -"is it too powerful or two warping for modern?". I will have to look into it a bit more before having a definitive answer, but off the top of my head I think it would be fun to see what it does again.

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

People saying that Astrolabe will never be banned because it is not obvious enough forget that Probe got the axe. Probe is a better comparison to Astrolabe than DRS I believe. Probe was in too many decks, serving too many purposes, and allowing existing strategies to play over their opponent's hate in a way that should not be allowed if we want an interactive format (e.g. infect and Probing for free).

If Astrolabe becomes as prevalent and causing the same issues as Probe, be sure that it will be banned. Currently, Astrolabe allows 3-4C decks to run a card (Blood Moon) that actually gives them some game (and only some), against their biggest predators, Tron and Amulet. These too decks have been overly strong and have kept midrange/control decks very much in check, to the point that it was very hard for any midrange/control to climb to T1 status. Now, with Astrolabe, they have some more game, which is fine in my book. If it comes to the point that Astrolabe allows midrange/control decks to go over the hate in the way that Probe did, then I will be all for banning it. We are not there yet.
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Post by CurdBros » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
People saying that Astrolabe will never be banned because it is not obvious enough forget that Probe got the axe. Probe is a better comparison to Astrolabe than DRS I believe. Probe was in too many decks, serving too many purposes, and allowing existing strategies to play over their opponent's hate in a way that should not be allowed if we want an interactive format (e.g. infect and Probing for free).

If Astrolabe becomes as prevalent and causing the same issues as Probe, be sure that it will be banned. Currently, Astrolabe allows 3-4C decks to run a card (Blood Moon) that actually gives them some game (and only some), against their biggest predators, Tron and Amulet. These too decks have been overly strong and have kept midrange/control decks very much in check, to the point that it was very hard for any midrange/control to climb to T1 status. Now, with Astrolabe, they have some more game, which is fine in my book. If it comes to the point that Astrolabe allows midrange/control decks to go over the hate in the way that Probe did, then I will be all for banning it. We are not there yet.
That's a very good point and a great comparison.

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Post by ModernDefector » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
2 years ago
ModernDefector wrote:
2 years ago
What's everyone's predictions for future bannings in the shltshow that is Modren?

Mine: Within six months, Opal and Urza banned. Within a year, Ancient Stirrings and/or Once Upon a Time banned.
Yeeeeah that's completely unrealistic and completely unjustified. For one, they would never go for 4 bans within a year, and especially not without an unban. There needs to be time to prove that these cards are busted, none of which has proven it yet, and then time for the metagame to settle again so this would never happen.

I have no idea why modern is a %$#%. Modern is actually great right now, a ton of diversity, and I feel like we are looking for scapegoats to keep the banmania flowing. This time it's the Urza decks. Heck, they didn't even have 6 months of play time, and there haven't been any major tournaments won by them, relax. This is similar to the rise of Grixs Death's Shadow, people for whatever reason were losing their mind over it and not it's just an acceptable player. The same was true for Lantern control, people thought that it was by and far the best deck that people didn't play, until nobody plays it any more. Heck, even Tron at times has been considered a prime ban target, especially when the new Karn was spoiled, but the Karn-Lattice combo hasn't broken anything yet.

So why not just chill with the banmania for a bit and see how things play out? There is literally a TON of things you can profitably be doing now in modern. Even a new Grixis control deck has been on the rise with multiple 5-0s and some good tournament showings. Calling modern a %$#% is just miles away from reality.
lol. Got there in less than half the time.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I'm going to build a Breach deck just to watch it eat a ban. :)
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Feels very strange watching Breach and Titan stick around while Twin and Pod remain banned. Would love nothing more than to hear from Wizards what their goals for Modern are.

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Post by blkdemonight » 1 year ago

I would be ok with astrolabe sticking around if Onslaught/Zendikar fetches get banned in Modern. This way we see less people cramming snow support in decks not caring about playing a snow archetype.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Feels very strange watching Breach and Titan stick around while Twin and Pod remain banned. Would love nothing more than to hear from Wizards what their goals for Modern are.
Sell new cards.
Shake up metagames artificially.
Play to the board, not the hand.
Limit combo's that can go off in one turn. (Oops)
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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

I really don't see OUaT being gone impacting Amulet Titan, like, at all. We'll see, I guess, but i'm a little underwhelmed.
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ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

At all? Not even 1%? I look at it as the kind of ban that is great for the format.

1. Doesnt kill any decks.
2. Isnt central to a decks plan or form.
3. Increased consistency 'for free'.

Those cards have no reason to exist.
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Post by Spsiegel1987 » 1 year ago

OUAT definitely makes more openers keepable for Titan decks. It was a good attempt.

I think if Titan becomes too good after this, they should really consider Titan himself. Let's see if OUAT curbs the deck though.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

Spsiegel1987 wrote:
1 year ago
OUAT definitely makes more openers keepable for Titan decks. It was a good attempt.

I think if Titan becomes too good after this, they should really consider Titan himself. Let's see if OUAT curbs the deck though.
I would much rather they hit Field or Dryad if they need to ban another card. Wizards really needs to avoid these brutal ban hammers that invalidate player investments. Opal was bad enough this year. No need to add Titan if Wizards can ban marginal cards instead. Modern needs to have a good 2020 after a horrible 2019, and if Wizards keep torpedoing player investments, that's going to hurt our format s health and stability. Titan was fine for years since Bloom got banned. If it's still problematic, Wizards needs to look at the marginal 2019 additions to this deck, rather than blowing up the whole archetype.
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