[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Amulet was never the best deck. In Splinter Twin days, it was the 2nd best deck at times. The new cards have pushed it, no matter how much people want to say that Primeval Titan is the "culprit" all along. Once Upon a Time and Field of the Dead just pushed it too much. Dryad of Ilysian Grove has also pushed it a bit. Veil of Summer is not even played in the 75. The deck is plenty resilient to discard and countermagic when they have Mystical Dispute in the SB, Cavern of Souls, Field of the Dead, and approximately a million cards that = Primeval Titan.

Veil of Summer, Underworld Breach, Teferi, Time Raveler. Some people may need to ask, "what is the motivation for letting cards like this go to print?" New deck ideas? Help old decks? Sorry, I don't see it, outside of doing stupid broken things and pushing certain formats (read: all formats they're legal in). If you seriously believe that these types of cards are fine, but Primeval Titan, a card that has been no problem in Modern since 2011, should be banned, I honestly don't know what to tell you at that point.

But then again, maybe you're the type that believe that Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis exposed the problem that Bridge from Below was or could have been all along, lol.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
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Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Veil of Summer, Underworld Breach, Teferi, Time Raveler. Some people may need to ask, "what is the motivation for letting cards like this go to print?" New deck ideas? Help old decks? Sorry, I don't see it, outside of doing stupid broken things and pushing certain formats (read: all formats they're legal in). If you seriously believe that these types of cards are fine, but Primeval Titan, a card that has been no problem in Modern since 2011, should be banned, I honestly don't know what to tell you at that point.
Abso-%$#%-lutely. These are designs, honestly by some other damn team. It feels when you look at Dom/Ravnica, to the War and Throne...someone took 10 years of Dev experience and said 'Nah, we can just do this instead.'

If they ban Titan, instead of all this other trash, I'll be super pissed, because that means your decks will never be safe, they are just one pushed card from them gutting the entire reason you play the deck.
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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Veil of Summer, Underworld Breach, Teferi, Time Raveler. Some people may need to ask, "what is the motivation for letting cards like this go to print?" New deck ideas? Help old decks? Sorry, I don't see it, outside of doing stupid broken things and pushing certain formats (read: all formats they're legal in). If you seriously believe that these types of cards are fine, but Primeval Titan, a card that has been no problem in Modern since 2011, should be banned, I honestly don't know what to tell you at that point.
%$#%. These are designs, honestly by some other damn team. It feels when you look at Dom/Ravnica, to the War and Throne...someone took 10 years of Dev experience and said 'Nah, we can just do this instead.'

If they ban Titan, instead of all this other trash, I'll be super pissed, because that means your decks will never be safe, they are just one pushed card from them gutting the entire reason you play the deck.
This. I hate to bring up crazy conspiracy theories, but I have a feeling that some people are trying to get certain staples of Modern banned so that the meta will change even more drastically than it has. Staleness is something that players don't enjoy and some pillars have been around Modern for quite a while. Many have been banned out of existence and some continue to go on after bans and with added broken cards.

Banning Prime Time will definitely decrease the diversity in Modern. And some want to nix Tron too? Lol, death to all big mana decks. I don't think that is the answer in giving Midrange/Control decks more of a chance (although Control is arguably close to okay with UB Urza and UW Control, which the latter seems underwhelming to me, but a local who's playing on the East Coast right now keeps making me wrong).

I'm completely with you idSurge. Some of the things that you say here are honestly exactly what I'd say, but often more well said. There were 1 or 2 posts that literally gave me chills because I thought someone had hacked your account and wrote something on my behalf. :dizzy:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by DarthDrac » 1 year ago

If you wanted to nerf big mana then banning both Once Upon A Time and Ancient Stirrings would do it... What's the next best option, Adventurous Impulse or Grisly Salvage? Ironically blue would then have the best cantrip in Serum Visions, so maybe big mana runs blue...

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

Can you T3 Titan off only Explore + Garenbrig? Or do you need an Amulet or Scout as well? I'm not seeing the line

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
If they ban Titan, instead of all this other trash, I'll be super pissed, because that means your decks will never be safe, they are just one pushed card from them gutting the entire reason you play the deck.
That has been the case for all of Modern though? Decks with build around cards get banned out of the format while piles of synergistic good stuff tend to win events less but never go away when banned.

Melira Pod ate it when Siege Rhino made it too good (well, Treasure Cruise eliminating it's predators didn't help matters either).
Splinter Twin was taken out.
Affinity was recently killed with Mox Opal
Eggs ate Second Sunrise

Etc... a lot of decks have been gutted. In contrast there's decks like Jund. It ate Deathrite Shaman and Bloodbraid Elf and was still in the meta, but not top tier. Then there's Storm, which if excluding artifact lands in the count has more cards banned than any other deck in the format and has surprisingly even gained several over the years with Pieces of the Puzzle, Electromancer, Baral, and so on.

The lesson has been clear for many years. Play good stuff, or if you must play something that's a build around play a build around that has an incredibly low chance of being banned like Tron lands.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
That has been the case for all of Modern though? Decks with build around cards get banned out of the format while piles of synergistic good stuff tend to win events less but never go away when banned.
To a point, yes.

However has Grapeshot ever been banned?

Pod was clear best deck, and was banned under the 'shake up' logic pre-Eldrazi.
Twin was banned under the 'shake up' logic pre-Eldrazi.
Affinity was never banned, Opal was banned because of Urza, yet Urza (the actual centerpiece) remains legal.
Eggs was banned (and reborn several times) because of Logistics first.

I mean I get what you are saying, but there are clear examples of them NOT killing decks, as well as the examples of decks that had to just go away.
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

I was looking around cardmarket today and noticed the promo Arcbound Ravager trending for little over €5. I had to double check since I thought it was a mistake.
I know affinity is dead, but I was thinking about getting a playset since I love artifact decks. I think it's one of those cards looming in the background. The lack of Mox Opal may have killed artifacts, but I have a feeling this modular beast is lurking somewhere. Waiting for the right moment :)

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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

Wasn't hardened scales using the artifact base too? Does the lack of opal also makes hardened scales obsolete?

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
Wasn't hardened scales using the artifact base too? Does the lack of opal also makes hardened scales obsolete?
Yes for all intents and purposes the deck is also dead.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Welcome to the new modern. Much like the old but with affinity and scales dead....

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Post by Mr.Guizee » 1 year ago

I have a question! I'm building a Grixis control deck but I'm having problems dealing with monored and Boros aggro decks. I know that I can't really outpace those decks but maybe I'm forgetting some cards. Are there any options in black or red that helps me deal with those stupid quick bursts?

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Bolt, Push, IoK?
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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Mana that doesn't hurt much, ie. Blackcleave Cliffs being the most important, then Darkslick Shores and Spirebluff Canal.

SB Dragon's Claw seems solid for those specific matchups.
Last edited by FoodChainGoblins 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

Mr.Guizee wrote:
1 year ago
I have a question! I'm building a Grixis control deck but I'm having problems dealing with monored and Boros aggro decks. I know that I can't really outpace those decks but maybe I'm forgetting some cards. Are there any options in black or red that helps me deal with those stupid quick bursts?
Control decks are naturally weak to aggro decks. Their main strength is supposed to be dealing with combo decks, but that doesn't always work out right depending on how well Wizards is currently balancing the meta. The way an individual control deck shores up their aggro game varies, sometimes it's playing more and cheaper sweepers, or more and cheaper removal. Sometimes it's adding a bit of life-gain to your existing game-plan and playing your shocks tapped to avoid the life-loss when you can afford to and still have answers up. I'd suggest asking for advice on a thread or discord or something related to your specific deck.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
Wasn't hardened scales using the artifact base too? Does the lack of opal also makes hardened scales obsolete?
So sad to see that go. That deck was so %$#% cool!!!
Would be cool if the coloured artifact lands were unbanned to make up for the loss of Mox Opal, but I think they would be way too broken.

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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

Simto wrote:
1 year ago
So sad to see that go. That deck was so %$#% cool!!!
Would be cool if the coloured artifact lands were unbanned to make up for the loss of Mox Opal, but I think they would be way too broken.
Isn't hardened scales dead mostly because it was mono-green and had few interactions? I mean, it was a goldfish deck, now it's just not fast and consistent enough in the face of other? (Plus titan can use valakut to machine gun the scale pieces.) The lack of opal only means the deck is 1 turn slower, right? I guess my question simply is: that one turn deficit is the reason the deck is bad, or is it that the meta-game is bad for the deck? (i.e. even with opal, HS would not see play.)

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

The one turn mattered a lot. It traded the resiliency that regular Affinity had in exchange for additional speed. Slowing down a deck like that makes a huge difference.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

I know it swung in and out of the top decks (being out for a while now), but it was still a %$#% cool and powerful deck.
Being one turn slower in modern is sadly too much.

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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

Whenever I saw Hardened Scales on stream, it looked like a glass canon: without its namesake card in play, it was weak.

I mean there are probably dozens of decks out there that would become competitive if they could shave a turn to their clock. In my mind, it's not about mox opal, it's about a deck that needs to be faster by a turn to compete, mox opal being a generic way to achieve that. In standard, it was often llanowar elves that was used.

I don't think we should regret mox based on decks that are not good enough without it.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

@pierreb

On that point, while it's a T4 format, it feels like most games are virtually over on turn 3, so if a deck suddenly isn't virtually over until T4 it's too slow. Meaning that if we really wanted to extrapolate this we should be looking at the remaining decks that virtually win on T3.

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Post by Mapccu » 1 year ago

To play devils advocate for a minute, for the sake of diversity we do have macro archetypes showing up in good numbers in tournaments. We have Aggro (red prowess decks) combo (breach/artifact junk), big mana (Tron/titan) showing up pretty consistently from what I can tell.

Maybe the format is just legacy lite and FoN isn't a strong enough safety valve to stop all this busted junk. Maybe we're 1-2 answers away from a strong control or tempo deck fitting Into the agenda.

I do agree 3teferi should go. We're starting to see him played simply to shut down counter plays and decks splashing for that sole reason.

As for pascals deck, I don't think it's as soft to stony as it appears. 3feri gives you a main board out. Even rip can be played around while we set up a combo turn.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

Simto wrote:
1 year ago
I was looking around cardmarket today and noticed the promo Arcbound Ravager trending for little over €5. I had to double check since I thought it was a mistake.
I know affinity is dead, but I was thinking about getting a playset since I love artifact decks. I think it's one of those cards looming in the background. The lack of Mox Opal may have killed artifacts, but I have a feeling this modular beast is lurking somewhere. Waiting for the right moment :)
was able to sell a playset of the original ravager for 100 dollars in 2017, with two cards slightly damaged, but the buyer still bought them. Banning of opal really killed the price, and killed the deck as well. If you're interested in it, I suggest get your set now while they're quite low.

______________

on another thing about artifacts. Only recently used them, and I'm surprised.. Arcum's Astrolabe is really good in color fixing a 3 color deck. Started testing with only two, but went up to four because they make colors easily available. I'm glad this thing is a common. It's price would have been high if was at uncommon or rare.
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
I suggest get your set now while they're quite low.
You're right. I'm extremely tempted to get a playset. I have a "casual" affinity deck that I use with my play group's anything goes games. Would be sick having them for sure. I love artifacts and +1/+1 synergy.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

New prediction: Breach will be banned before, or with, something from Amulet.
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