[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

True-Name Nemesis
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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

Heads up to everyone for Modern Live Coverage for the Cardmarket Series



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Edit:
Top 8 is

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European Meta is sweet.
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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I think I disagree with near every point you make. Veil is an absolute joke. The only way it could be better is if it was actually free.
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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

True-Name Nemesis wrote: European Meta is sweet.
I would agree that small, localized metas and small, localized tournaments have lots of potential to be super sweet.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Was it small? Is Paris. Do we have numbers?
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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote: Was it small? Is Paris. Do we have numbers?
In the past, CM events have the same turnout as a small-to-medium SCG event, if I remember correctly.

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

the cardmarket tournament looks like a rather diverse one. Nice seeing Stoneblade decks showing some power in there. :)

at this point it feels like there's not much more to argue about. Thing look fine.
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Post by Tomatotime » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
the cardmarket tournament looks like a rather diverse once. Nice seeing Stoneblade decks showing some power in there.

at this point it feels like there's not much more to argue about. Thing look fine.
Things looking fine in a niche EU tournament does not mean anything. The argument continues.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

feeling there's nothing more to be aggressively debating about, not worth the effort anymore. My local meta is fine, no oppressive deck here. And I see a tournament in another country looks fine too. Time to rest from this thread, and quietly wait for MH2. See you guys again in MH2 discussions. :)
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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

I don't pretend to care about this format anymore. Which is why I don't really post here anymore, and don't really play anymore, in paper or online.

My only stance is that if they're going to let Modern be a linear sh*t show, give me Twin back so I can at least join the party with something I enjoy. And maybe people will stop pretending like it is in any way more egregious than the other nonsense that exists today.

Either ban all the garbage and start from scratch or give us our toys back. Any middle ground is just openly admitting WOTC is full of hypocrites that don't understand their own game.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote: I admire most of you people trying to say Modern needs fundamental changes to actually change, especially if you believe Modern is going to be something more than a linear format. It's not been like that since 2014, why do you believe it would be now?
Lol. You may be right. I took a hiatus from Modern (and Magic) in 2014 and didn't start playing Modern again until MH1 sucked me back in (I started playing Magic again casually in 2017). The format that I enjoyed playing was no longer what I remembered it to be. It may be that Modern is a linear turn 3 format. If so then that's disappointing because I remember it being more interesting before but perhaps that is because the format had not yet developed an identity at that time.

That said, I think the current issue is that Modern and Pioneer look very similar to me and I don't see them coexisting unless Modern undergoes some substantial changes. I think that increasing interaction would be one way to do this as Pioneer lacks a lot of the potential for more interaction that Modern has. Whether that potential will be tapped into is yet to be seen.

Until then I'm pretty happy with Legacy.

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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

Modern at this moment is really good. It's now like we wanted for so long, maybe the reason why some of you still complaining while it's now 99% perfekt

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I don't know that it's 99% perfect, but it seems the meta has shifted a bit.
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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

If we will stay serious, we should not always complain no matter how good or bad modern is. At this moment I feel we are in a good shape but we still talk like it is hoogak summer

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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
idSurge wrote: Was it small? Is Paris. Do we have numbers?
In the past, CM events have the same turnout as a small-to-medium SCG event, if I remember correctly.
200 players for Modern, which is around 3x smaller than the worst-performing Modern GP in 2019 as indicated in KTK's article.

For what it's worth they are running events for all 4 constructed formats. So it is about the size of a small GP across all formats, possibly compounded by the PT going on in Phoenix. Definitely not large enough to be a significant sample in gauging format health.

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Post by Tomatotime » 1 year ago

Mtgthewary wrote:
1 year ago
Modern at this moment is really good. It's now like we wanted for so long, maybe the reason why some of you still complaining while it's now 99% perfekt
Idk if we can see it is perfect when the top tier of the format is Tron, Titanshift, and perhaps dredge (AGAIN) now that it has that stupid Ox.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I don't know that it's 99% perfect, but it seems the meta has shifted a bit.
Mtgthewary wrote:
1 year ago
If we will stay serious, we should not always complain no matter how good or bad modern is. At this moment I feel we are in a good shape but we still talk like it is hoogak summer
Tomatotime wrote:
1 year ago
Mtgthewary wrote:
1 year ago
Modern at this moment is really good. It's now like we wanted for so long, maybe the reason why some of you still complaining while it's now 99% perfekt
Idk if we can see it is perfect when the top tier of the format is Tron, Titanshift, and perhaps dredge (AGAIN) now that it has that stupid Ox.
It's not too early to focus on largescale Modern issues like communication and mission drift into Pioneer, which is why I've tried to focus on those more existential threats in recent posts. But it is way too early to make judgment calls about the format's top-tier at this time. Throughout Modern history, and especially in 2019, we've seen plenty of post-ban/new set metagames where Modern looked strategically diverse before taking a bad turn. This happens after about 1-2 months of League iteration and really crystalizes when you get a GP or PT. Early on, smaller and regional events can look really great. Time will tell if that's an accurate metagame depiction or just people playing what they love vs. what is best.

That all said, I too share Tomatotime's worries, particularly regarding ramp. Tron, Simic Titan, Amulet Titan, and Titanshift are almost certainly the secret, not-so-secret best decks in Modern right now, especially as they continue to figure out the best way to use the outlandishly broken OUaT. If left unchecked, these decks are going to create a lot of negative metagame pressures that diminish strategic diversity. We are going to keep seeing this on MTGO and eventually it's going to break into paper events.

At the same time, I want to emphasize that fair decks aren't too far behind and it's critical we maintain that balance. Big mana decks are a natural check to good stuff Astrolabe decks and Jund, both of which could easily become the dominant forces in the format if they don't have a natural predator. That's why banning major big mana pillars would be risky and likely disastrous. A world without Tron and Titan decks would see Astrolabe and Jund totally take over, which I know some players in this thread might like, but is also not strategically diverse. Banning fringe big mana cards would help curate the format and lead to more strategic diversity while ensuring those decks remain viable. OUaT is obviously my top pick in this category, but there are other hits like Expedition Map, Nature's Claim, Force of Vigor, and others which will also hit these decks at the margins.
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure the card market tournament in Paris had around 200 players.
That abzan ephemerate deck was sick.

Really not sure if I should just go for getting 4 chalice to complete my eldrazi deck, get 4 karn and 2 ugin for tron for my modern games or get the stuff I need for my esper control Pioneer deck.... I want it all :( but no money.
I need those chalice to not get %$#% since lattice is banned lol. I could get away without having them for the most part.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

Tomatotime wrote:
Mtgthewary wrote:
1 year ago
Modern at this moment is really good. It's now like we wanted for so long, maybe the reason why some of you still complaining while it's now 99% perfekt
Idk if we can see it is perfect when the top tier of the format is Tron, Titanshift, and perhaps dredge (AGAIN) now that it has that stupid Ox.
Ox makes dredge so gross, I played a bit against it on Friday night and it made some gross turns. Tron, Titan decks and Dredge is probably a fair assumption since the bans. Titan decks are super good when people are trying to jam midraneg decks, and the decks were reasonable pre bans/Pre Theros when they got new toys

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Chalice won't get banned.
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote: Chalice won't get banned.
Not worried about Chalice getting banned, I'm more worried about wasting money on a format that people are fighting and screaming about sucking hehe

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Post by Tomatotime » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
Ox makes dredge so gross, I played a bit against it on Friday night and it made some gross turns. Tron, Titan decks and Dredge is probably a fair assumption since the bans.
I think in the best case scenario, it just makes for absolutely terrible optics to have dredge anywhere near the top of the format after the year or so we have just had. In terms of Dredge specifically, the post looting format has shown me in starc clarity just how strong cathartic reunion is just on it's own, it really is insane value.
ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Big mana decks are a natural check to good stuff Astrolabe decks and Jund, both of which could easily become the dominant forces in the format if they don't have a natural predator.
Okay but even if that were to happen, is that actually worse than what we have had for the past 3 years or so in this format? Genuinely asking, wouldn't having a more mid range friendly format even for like 6 months be good just to see the difference and for the community to judge what is actually bringing value and fun to the format and what isn't?

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Simto wrote:
idSurge wrote: Chalice won't get banned.
Not worried about Chalice getting banned, I'm more worried about wasting money on a format that people are fighting and screaming about sucking hehe
My concern is making sure enough people actually show up for events to fire. And that the actual gameplay isn't just an open face comparison of the top 10 cards of our libraries.

I've already spent thousands, but haven't bought any non-edh cards in months. Just playing the waiting game.

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Post by Tomatotime » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
My concern is making sure enough people actually show up for events to fire. And that the actual gameplay isn't just an open face comparison of the top 10 cards of our libraries.
This is a great summary of my fealings of the format as well, at some point when the format becomes so linera/golfishy/solitaire in nature, the actual game Magic: The Gathering(tm) simply becomes a nuisance, it is more efficient to just look at each others top 10 cards and see who has the better goldfish and sign the slips accordinly. I think some people here underestimate the severity of that scenario and what it means for the long term health of the game.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
Simto wrote:
idSurge wrote: Chalice won't get banned.
Not worried about Chalice getting banned, I'm more worried about wasting money on a format that people are fighting and screaming about sucking hehe
My concern is making sure enough people actually show up for events to fire. And that the actual gameplay isn't just an open face comparison of the top 10 cards of our libraries.

I've already spent thousands, but haven't bought any non-edh cards in months. Just playing the waiting game.
You're probably right. I'm having a lot of fun with modern, but it's probably a good idea to wait a little before dropping dosh on those last couple of cards I need.
I've said it a few times before that my local meta is really fun and good, but I'm working on moving to Tokyo asap and I've only tried playing Standard there hehe. I have a feeling the modern scene is pretty brutal there.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

Tomatotime wrote:
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
Ox makes dredge so gross, I played a bit against it on Friday night and it made some gross turns. Tron, Titan decks and Dredge is probably a fair assumption since the bans.
I think in the best case scenario, it just makes for absolutely terrible optics to have dredge anywhere near the top of the format after the year or so we have just had. In terms of Dredge specifically, the post looting format has shown me in starc clarity just how strong cathartic reunion is just on it's own, it really is insane value.
ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Big mana decks are a natural check to good stuff Astrolabe decks and Jund, both of which could easily become the dominant forces in the format if they don't have a natural predator.
Okay but even if that were to happen, is that actually worse than what we have had for the past 3 years or so in this format? Genuinely asking, wouldn't having a more mid range friendly format even for like 6 months be good just to see the difference and for the community to judge what is actually bringing value and fun to the format and what isn't?
I don't even know if I'm ACTUALLY worried about dredge being broken again after they banned looting 6 months ago but it is kind of annoying that after dredge being affected by the looting ban it got a toy like ox.

I would love to see a midrange friendly format for at least a few months. Even if titan decks are the best decks in the format, I don't know if I'd be worried because it seems like we've had worse over the past 3 years or so

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