[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

Aazadan
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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Ed06288 wrote:
1 year ago
Can emry cheat mox tantalite into play from graveyard?
No, because it doesn't have a casting cost (it only has a CMC of 0). Emry shouldn't get it out of a graveyard at all. Engineer can get it and then weld it in though, and I think something like Whir could get it, as well as the scrap trawler nonsense.
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Ed06288
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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

we're yugioh now

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone claiming who knows what's going to happen, is just exaggerating.
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Modern will be in a better shape.
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Amber is much less explosive. Everything's fine!
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Anyone claiming who knows what's going to happen, is just exaggerating.
Just poking fun. :)
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Ed06288
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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

nevermind emmry just lets you cast it

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Amalgam
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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

It's been one day since the banning and no results are even out yet. We should have our first challenge results in a very days which will give us something to go off. Even this will only give us a preliminary look and I don't think we can make any real arguments for a week or two. Witch hunting right now feels like a waste of energy
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Ed06288
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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

You'd think abundant growth would see more play. probably needs artifact type

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Card Slinger J
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Post by Card Slinger J » 1 year ago

I probably would've banned Karn, the Great Creator and Emry, Lurker of the Loch instead of Mycosynth Lattice and Mox Opal in Modern. The problem is that Wizards didn't ban enough cards in order to help stabilize the format when they're letting it die just to have Pioneer take it's place. It's one thing to base their decisions on tournament results when it's another that they're too afraid to touch degenerate combo enablers that make for unfun games.

Wizards just wants something for the competitive players who don't play EDH / Commander by allowing these combo decks to thrive in Modern. Turn 4 isn't enough time to have a response in hand to answer for said combo compared to EDH / Commander where games end by Turn 5 or 6. That usually happens when someone at the table is playing a cEDH deck compared to other decks being of lower power level.
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pierreb
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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
This new Yawgmoth, Thran Physician - Geralf's Messenger ticks all the boxes for being a Tier 1 modern deck.
Its success hinges on the fact that PtE is not played as much as it used to be because white is not part of many tier 1 decks right now.

As for the health of the format, it always makes me cringe when I read modern being toxic due to degenerate decks. Legacy and vintage have a larger card pool and there is no such constant vitriol. The reason is clear: we need better answers. Since these won't appear anytime soon, just a few more well-known bans instead.

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Amalgam
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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

MTG arena just removed Historic ranked and continues to charge money for brawl as well. Even if Modern or Pioneer gets on this platform, wizards continues to show all they actually care about is standard. They literally punish people who make decks for this format by limiting when you can play these formats and previously tried to charge a 2:1 ratio for historic wildcard purchases.

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Post by Tomatotime » 1 year ago

Amalgam wrote:
1 year ago
MTG arena just removed Historic ranked and continues to charge money for brawl as well. Even if Modern or Pioneer gets on this platform, wizards continues to show all they actually care about is standard. They literally punish people who make decks for this format by limiting when you can play these formats and previously tried to charge a 2:1 ratio for historic wildcard purchases.
I think it was completely self evident even a year or so ago when we actually got access to the Arena open beta and its pricing model that it was at it's core a complete ripoff for a digital only platform with no fungible aspect like MTGO has. However whether we actually like it or not, it appears this is Wotc's intended future, the big issue is which formats Wotc sees fit to bring along into that future, whether it is a dark future or not, and which formats are left behind in obscurity. Let me be clear, I don't like Arena, when I played it months ago, it was like playing in a casual room even in ranked, and I'm not even talking about deck building standards, just the actual skill level of play is a joke.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

Interesting to see people building with Yawgmoth. I built a monoblack devotion deck around him and Geralfs Messenger almost immediately after he cane out. My primer and deck list is up in the "Developing" decks section under Bx Devotion.

I love playing with Yawgmoth and I've always had the feeling that my instinct was not misplaced. It's amazing how narrow the deck development is in modern following a new set. It seems like a single deck breaks out and then everyone just exploits that deck until it is completely exhausted. I truly believe that this tunnel vision leads to a lot of missed opportunities.

[mention]gkourou[/mention] Would you mind posting your Bg Yawgmoth list up in the developing deck section under my primer?

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Would you mind posting your Bg Yawgmoth list up in the developing deck section under my primer?
It's this. Since I looked at it during MH1 Spoilers, its been further buffed obviously with Veil and OuaT.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/m ... moth#paper
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Post by CurdBros » 1 year ago

Reid Duke had a long modern stream today with Jund and I really hope that his stream is an indication of the bans impact on modern. He played two leagues with a total of 10 matchups and played 10 different decks (affinity, storm, UW control, infect, valakut, GDS, Amulet Titan, and to be honest I forgot the others). It was a great stream and he went 7-3 with Jund. I have always said that if Jund is good, modern is good.

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Post by th33l3x » 1 year ago

in theory, how soon could we see a Veil ban?
somebody said "modern could be a Veil-ban away from being great" and I agree.

Will have to see how Urza/Emry.dec shakes out, the emerging temur lists seem pretty damn powerful.

The fact remains, Veil has to be a goner, and everybody knows that.

The question is, will they let the format durdle around for a while to let the recent bans excert their influence,or might they be willing to ban Veil, say, next week?

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

It wont be next week. Unless some deck leverages Veil REALLY hard and cannot be stopped on MTGO.
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Post by iTaLenTZ » 1 year ago

Lets sacrifice more Modern events to see if Veil is broken and if Urza needs another ban. I really hope they don't wait too long to ban Emry if Urza keeps being a tier 0 deck.

The best things about the b&r announcement is that its the last one and toxic stuff can be banned on a weekly basis now and people are brewing sub optimal builds to see what is good and what not. That makes the format look more healthy and balanced than it actually is (remember Jace and SFM unban). Once things settle it will be clear if Urza needs another ban but lets all hope and pray at least Veil is gone next Monday because that card doesn't need any more time.

The thing that still pisses me off is how long they waited with these bannings when it was clear months ago it couldn't stay legal. So many people bought Mox Opals and Oko's of their Christmas money and its gone now. Sure, they got their money in the short run but in the long run Wizards lost because I already know 2 people who quit Modern because of this. Bannings cards timely also prevents collateral damage on peoples wallets and buyer confidence.

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Post by stubb » 1 year ago

Veil might be fine in this new landscape. The card's good, but it's ultimately a bullet.

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Post by CurdBros » 1 year ago

[mention]gkourou[/mention] - I'm glad you found a new deck that you love. MTGGoldfish also played that deck tonight and it looked awesome. I have watched different modern streams all day long and I have seen a ton of positivity and excitement. It really couldn't have gone much better on day one of the new modern format. We will see how it pans out after the first one or two major tournaments, but I agree with others that modern is one (veil) or two (simian spirit guide) bans away from being great again.

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Amalgam
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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

I mean Simian Spirit Guide doesn't really even see play so it is more a non factor. Hopefully the format is fine now but will see over the next couple months

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

CurdBros wrote:
1 year ago
Reid Duke had a long modern stream today with Jund and I really hope that his stream is an indication of the bans impact on modern. He played two leagues with a total of 10 matchups and played 10 different decks (affinity, storm, UW control, infect, valakut, GDS, Amulet Titan, and to be honest I forgot the others). It was a great stream and he went 7-3 with Jund. I have always said that if Jund is good, modern is good.
Remember when SFM was unbanned alongside the Looting/Hogaak ban? And people were jamming all sorts of bad interactive decks and having fun with brews? How long did that last again? *shrug*

The least they could have done is unban something. With this ban, nothing really *actually* changes.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Would you mind posting your Bg Yawgmoth list up in the developing deck section under my primer?
It's this. Since I looked at it during MH1 Spoilers, its been further buffed obviously with Veil and OuaT.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/m ... moth#paper
Thanks. I'm familiar with the list, I was just hoping to move the discussion over to the deck primer thread so that we could start to develop that discussion there.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Amulet did receive a banning some years ago and it deserved it. Turn 3 kill don't happen enough with no summer bloom nowadays.

Now, if you ask me, whether bloom should be unbanned (I know FoodChainGoblins might still be thinking it could be fine?), no, I don't believe it would be fine.
Summer Bloom absolutely would NOT be fine in this current meta. Before Oko was banned, arguably any Magic card could be "fine" in that meta. That being said, I think it is fine if some other cards are released into the wild.
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Splinter Twin - if this is legal, I believe that Summer Bloom could be also legal (although with so many recent upgrades, perhaps not)
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Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by Lord Seth » 1 year ago

Well, shows how little attention I've been paying the last few days. I didn't even know the bans happened until today. I really wish Wizards of the Coast had easier-to-remember banning times. Them hitting stuff from Urza/Oko decks isn't that surprising, but I don't think Karn/Lattice was banworthy. Annoying, yes, but not really overpowered compared to the rest of the format.

Though after banning Mox Opal, they might as well unban the artifact lands.

Has Wizards of the Coast ever said how they messed up so badly with Oko? I remember when they banned it, some people complained about their lack of an explanation, even in their separate article that supposedly was supposed to give more light into it (compare it back to their in-depth articles on Skullclamp or Jace/Stoneforge). Maybe they put up a new article in the meantime and I missed it.
Card Slinger J wrote:
1 year ago
I probably would've banned Karn, the Great Creator and Emry, Lurker of the Loch instead of Mycosynth Lattice and Mox Opal in Modern. The problem is that Wizards didn't ban enough cards in order to help stabilize the format when they're letting it die just to have Pioneer take it's place. It's one thing to base their decisions on tournament results when it's another that they're too afraid to touch degenerate combo enablers that make for unfun games.
Why would you ban Karn over Mycosynth Lattice? Karn is hardly overpowered on his own and can potentially see play without Lattice, whereas Lattice is useless without Karn.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Lord Seth wrote:
1 year ago
Well, shows how little attention I've been paying the last few days. I didn't even know the bans happened until today. I really wish Wizards of the Coast had easier-to-remember banning times. Them hitting stuff from Urza/Oko decks isn't that surprising, but I don't think Karn/Lattice was banworthy. Annoying, yes, but not really overpowered compared to the rest of the format.

Though after banning Mox Opal, they might as well unban the artifact lands.

Has Wizards of the Coast ever said how they messed up so badly with Oko? I remember when they banned it, some people complained about their lack of an explanation, even in their separate article that supposedly was supposed to give more light into it (compare it back to their in-depth articles on Skullclamp or Jace/Stoneforge). Maybe they put up a new article in the meantime and I missed it.
Card Slinger J wrote:
1 year ago
I probably would've banned Karn, the Great Creator and Emry, Lurker of the Loch instead of Mycosynth Lattice and Mox Opal in Modern. The problem is that Wizards didn't ban enough cards in order to help stabilize the format when they're letting it die just to have Pioneer take it's place. It's one thing to base their decisions on tournament results when it's another that they're too afraid to touch degenerate combo enablers that make for unfun games.
Why would you ban Karn over Mycosynth Lattice? Karn is hardly overpowered on his own and can potentially see play without Lattice, whereas Lattice is useless without Karn.
Their "sorry" for Oko is it getting banned in every relevant format that it could be and seeing play in Legacy and Vintage.

I have a friend who runs mostly nothing but Tron. He says that Karn, the Great Creator should have been banned. Why? Because it still will see play for all the silver bullets that it can get after starting on 5 loyalty. With Mox Opal gone, Karn, the Great Creator is essentially the death of artifact decks (as if they needed it more). I agree that Karn should be the ban, but it also shouldn't because it's the newer card. Anything else is irrelevant until it gets to Hogaak/Oko type of levels. Even Urza seems safe from a ban with Mox Opal gone now, lol.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by th33l3x » 1 year ago

stubb wrote:
1 year ago
Veil might be fine in this new landscape. The card's good, but it's ultimately a bullet.
No offence, but are you for real? Srsly... A bullet is a card that shuts down ONE spefic deck or specific type of deck.

1) Veil is a very broadly powerful sideboard card, it's a hoser for any interaction-based strategy.

2) RIP is a silver bullet. And its 2cmc, sorcery speed and doesnt draw a card.

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