[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Another fun goodie to shoot across my feed.


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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Its not particularly complicated.

Oko is so fundamentally flawed, it must go. Tomorrow.
Urza, is simply above rate in what other decks can do, because of the existence of Whir, and Opal.
Cards like Veil, Astrolabe, Once Upon a Time, are simply broken.

You ban Oko, Urza (or Opal), Veil, Astrolabe, and OuaT, and you unban Twin.

Modern is irreparably harmed if you leave those cards in the format.
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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

At least I broke even on my mtgo Okos. Bought for $35 and sold for $35. Got a good few weeks out of him, and he simply cannot stay around.

However, I also saw a cryptic thread from MaRo about functional errata, leading some (myself included) to speculate about the Elk ability becoming a -1. Dunno.


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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I...would absolutely hate that.

I mean if you want to see when paper dies, its when they begin 'patching' the game.
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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

If you read further on you will notice he specifically mentions they don't make those kind of errata changes but only in the likes of things like Teferi only untapping your lands etc. Oko is banned in standard and pioneer and soon to be modern. I'm sure wizards now doesn't even care about the card anymore and will just pretend it doesn't exist as it forever gets pushed to legacy/vintage

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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

Wouldn't mind a swap banning of mox opal and colored artifact lands. I know you guys don't like it but I also like chrome mox.

But if we're gonna ban stuff, can we start with oko, and just oko, before banning mox opal? Apparently people want primeval titan banned too which is crazy talk. He's just there to break the mirror since oko can't really interact with lands.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Ed06288 wrote:
1 year ago
Wouldn't mind a swap banning of mox opal and colored artifact lands. I know you guys don't like it but I also like chrome mox.

But if we're gonna ban stuff, can we start with oko, and just oko, before banning mox opal? Apparently people want primeval titan banned too which is crazy talk. He's just there to break the mirror since oko can't really interact with lands.
No, you cannot just ban Oko.

You need Oko, either Urza or Opal (or Emry perhaps?) Veil and OuaT for the Titan decks. At a minimum.

Stop thinking Modern is 'close' to fine. Its an absolute dumpster fire.
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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

Urza is NOT enough!!! Mox opal must go too

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Mtgthewary wrote:
1 year ago
Urza is NOT enough!!! Mox opal must go too
Why?

I mean sure, its going to forever be a part of artifact focused strategies, but before Urza what was busted? KCI? Thats never seeing print again.
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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

Bevore urza, oko, emry, Astro... It was still whir prison (after Kci). It had on Era of hoogak winrate of 58% and it was under radar only because of hoogak. After them they print all this new cards and people forget it was allready busted bevore. It changes "nothing" if urza only goes and oko. Even if emry, urza goes astrolable too... it will be dominant for sure. It's again same Kci mistake where they talked about mox Bann but didn't do it. When we want starting learning from our mistakes? Really repeat it again and again? They need a fix for artifact decks like looting bann did at gravebased strategys. No mox ban means we are soon here again. Kci didn't died, it changed into whir and now urza. People playing Kci are the same guys playing urza now

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

I don't like killing off what little is left of affinity but I do agree Mox Opal will hav to go sooner or later. But frankly, I wonder what a banlist update would have to look like to re-spark my interest in Modern, I see people talk about a good 5-6 cards that need to go, and I doubt that is realistic.

We'll definitely see an Oko ban in January, and I'd be willing to bet something from Urza goes too. But there's still going to be so many cards left even after that that just shouldnt exist

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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

I actually do think modern is a dumpster fire. But no one can agree on what to ban.

I guess Mox Opal is okay, it's mostly played in affinity, whirza combo, and lantern. Not convinced once upon a time is a problem. I'm weird in that I actually liked playing against that whirza combo deck that gen waved the whole library.

Soooooo for me, Oko should definately go. Urza high lord and Veil of summer are 50/50 to get banned.

Anyway I cam here to ask when ban announcemets are done. I'm guessing on mondays now? I'm gonna hold off on buying mycosynth lattice until a ban announcement.

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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

I would like whirza combo to stay in modern which means thopter foundry, sword of the meek, and Urza should stay. But I feel something should go from the deck, and it's kinda unfair that they also get the best mana accelerator in the game. Mox opal can be used the turn you play it and is harder to interact with than say noble hierach. It's cheaper too. So on second thought I could see mox opal getting the axe. Losing Opal might make the deck slow enough to lose to tron and jund, while still able to function as a tier 2 deck.

But then affinity probably disappears. I don't know

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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

Affinity is death allready! It's like saying looting needs to stay because of mardu pyromancer. Affinity is allready death because there is no reason to play it while urza is alive. We need to fix this big big problem and have no time anymore to take care for other 1% decks. Colleteral damage allways will happen. It's time to cut this modern killing problem now without wasting again more time for bans, which don't will help. We allready lost to much time collecting data and talking. Kill the head

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

Btw, Arcum's Astrolabe is Gitaxian Probe levels of innocently completely broken. I'd honestly ban it before Mox Opal

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

Ed06288 wrote:
1 year ago
Apparently people want primeval titan banned too which is crazy talk. He's just there to break the mirror since oko can't really interact with lands.
Hold on, I brought up the conversation on primeval titan and I in no way pushed for a ban.

I do think we should discuss future design space related to the card and it's worth noticing the other three cards it has used that have been banned over time. Now it is using several banned in standard cards to perform very well, the new banned in standard cards are the likely new ban targets namely oko, OUaT and field of the dead.

It is worth asking if titan will continue to stay on top of the format and how many bans related to titan are acceptable going into the future.

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Post by iTaLenTZ » 1 year ago

By looking at financial trends (infused by insider trading) the cards that seem to get banned are Mox Opal, Oko, OUAT and Veil of Summer.
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I mean if you want to see when paper dies, its when they begin 'patching' the game.


I couldn't agree more. It would make the designers even more easy-going when releasing broken stuff because they can always patch it later. Cards need to do what is written on them otherwise the game would degrade in absolute chaos. Functional errata's are not a solution nor excuse for bad card design.

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
iTaLenTZ wrote:
1 year ago
By looking at financial trends (infused by insider trading) the cards that seem to get banned are Mox Opal, Oko, OUAT and Veil of Summer.
Can you elaborate on that please? Maybe show some graphs? I need to know more. Thank you!
Yes, I request your source. Mtggoldfish is to slow to show what you say you see. Also, unbans may have price spikes we can see.

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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

Yes please, can't see anything not normal

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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-stap ... n/full/all

Commonly played in modern. you can make of that whatever you want. way too many cards from recent sets seeing so much top play.

As for the titan banning, my post was more aimed at the players of SCG columbus team modern who thought titan was too common.

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

Artifact control
Dredge
Tron

This is my short list of decks that MUST NOT be allowed to thrive in Modern in order for it to be fun. I'm sorry if you are a fan of those strats but these are degenerate and unhealthy to the game. What ever bannings they do you must cripple the decks listed once and for all. Then unban all the toys left on the banlist, go to weekly ban changes and see what happens.

THEN if it still sucks reboot the whole format with an earlier starting point.
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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

what are people's thoughts on force of negation? card doesn't seem overpowered but it's soured on me a bit. you force the control player to tap down with a good end of turn play but still get tripped up by a force.

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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

i dont even know what to say about tron and dredge. they're not exactly fun but they're far away from what's ruining the game right now. i made a post about dredge 2 or 3 pages back, basically saying the format was better before prized amalgam.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I...would absolutely hate that.

I mean if you want to see when paper dies, its when they begin 'patching' the game.
We've had this conversation before and I will continue to go on record with my stance. It hasn't changed: Patching is a SIGNIFICANT net positive for the game and is the ultimate evolution of Modern to something where cards are never banned. This is a question of "when," not "if," and I imagine Wizards is grappling with how they are going to make this shift. You are correct, however, that this would put paper Magic on even shakier ground than it currently is relative to digital Magic, but we already know digital Magic is the direction Wizards is heading. I would say that it makes Play Design and other design teams more likely to print busted cards, but they don't seem to have any reservations about doing this already. At least patching means the busted stuff gets fixed significantly faster and with a lower bar without anyone losing major value on decks or cards.

Re: bans
Lattice, Veil, and OUaT all fit my so-called "nerf ban" model of eliminating problematic cards without killing their core decks. Oko needs to go for format dominance reasons at this point, even if it's the core of certain UGx strategies. At a minimum, all four of those cards should be banned today (or ASAP) to rebalance Modern. Astrolabe should also be up for discussion, along with Urza himself and potentially Emry. I'd also add T3feri to my nerf ban list, as it homogenizes Ux decks towards UWx and represents yet another god awful, format-wrecking 2019 design mistake. This ban update also needs to have clear marching directives from Wizards about where their format curation is heading in 2020.
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Post by Mtgthewary » 1 year ago

Why we want ban so many cards, if mox alone do same (maybe more?). Emry? It's fine without mox helping it turn 1... Urza? It's fine if he can use it most early turn 4. You all want cards banned around the real problem. We need to stop core of this stuff
Last edited by Mtgthewary 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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