[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Breaks are temporary and easily corrected. Lets imagine 10 months ago SFM was unbanned and did....exactly nothing but pad a few people's pockets.

I wanted a shake up of Modern. If Jund returns to Tier 1, and UW is Tier 1, then I'll consider the 'just wait for WAR and Horizons' a success.
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Zorakkiller
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Post by Zorakkiller » 1 year ago

I'd rather have a card do nothing than break the format

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Zorakkiller wrote:
1 year ago
I'd rather have a card do nothing than break the format
How many times can I "thank you" in this thread, lol?

I agree with this completely. If a card will do hardly anything, why not unban it? Sword of the Meek comes to mind. People here told me that it "wouldn't do anything." "Why unban it?" THAT is the reason why. Cards that don't belong on the ban list ... don't belong on the ban list. Everything from Reach Through Mists to Lightning Bolt to Bitterblossom to One with Nothing to Storm Crow deserve to be legal in the format. Well, maybe not Storm Crow...
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
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Post by Zorakkiller » 1 year ago

wotc could even monetize unbans via reprints. hell they could have unbanned sfm and reprinted it in horizons. there is almost zero downside to unbaning safe cards

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
I agree with this completely. If a card will do hardly anything, why not unban it?
By all means, unban SFM, and any other card people think should come off. But if given the choice between unbanning useless (within the context of actually being effective in competitive play) cards, vs a whole 'designed for Modern' set?

Give me the new cards.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
I agree with this completely. If a card will do hardly anything, why not unban it?
By all means, unban SFM, and any other card people think should come off. But if given the choice between unbanning useless (within the context of actually being effective in competitive play) cards, vs a whole 'designed for Modern' set?

Give me the new cards.
Why can't it be both? At this point, most Modern players are pretty convinced that Stoneforge Mystic will not do much. Unbanning it takes 20 minutes at most; shorter than coming up with MH and cheaper pay to WotC employees.

Just like Zorakkiller said - they can even put it in a new set. If they wait too long, players won't care and it won't SELL a set by itself. I would argue that it won't even do that now.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

I'm glad Modern Horizons was created, many new toys from it. Both for competitive and for more casual play. :)

Kaya's Guile, Soulherder, Winds of Abandon, Faerie Seer, Changeling Outcast, Fallen Shinobi, Ingenious Infiltrator, and the reprinting of Goblin Ringleader. Those are just from the top of my head... there are more that I liked from the set. Me and a friend are building a gob deck together.
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Post by Necrofish » 1 year ago

I'm happy about the set. My wallet is not.
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
My Bridge ban deep dive is up on MTGN: articles/1018-unpacking-the-bridge-from-below-ban/

I encourage everyone to read the article, but here are the big takeaways if you need a TLDR (pasted from the abridged Reddit post):

7. Graveyard strategies are part of Modern: This announcement speaks favorably about overall Modern graveyard strategies, highlights Dredge as an acceptable deck, and doesn't mention Looting once. This suggests Wizards is comfortable with that status quo.

Curious to see if others drew the same conclusions, disagree with the takeaways, and/or have other ideas about using the ban to predict and inform future ban decisions.
referring to 7. Well, that's fine.. if that's how they would cook it for modern. Would just maintain the 3 grave hate in the main of my fnm decks. Then a few more waiting in the sideboard.
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Post by Necrofish » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
Would just maintain the 3 grave hate in the main of my fnm decks.
Surgical about to become the FoW of modern.
Wydwen is much too cool for you.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

cashed in and sold my playset of surgical sometime ago. Only have two extirpate now in my bg, extirpate is almost as good although of course it's not free and cannot be used turn 0. :)
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want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Why can't it be both?
Like I said, "if given a choice between".

You know I'm fine with SFM and a few other cards coming off, but its irrelevant, because Wizards has a harder time monetizing it, and those cards would not even be Tier 1 so...who cares? There are a million Tier 3 options if thats what one wants to do.
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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Modern Horizons was and seems to be a huge success. We were asking for a set like this for so many years and finally it became a reality.a Remand, Cryptic Command, Electrolyze deck being stronger again? :)
Just for the record, if Wizards ever take into account players opinion, I thought MH1 had two problems:

The balance between reprints and new cards was too skewed toward new cards.

Reprints were limited to cards that were entirely new to modern.

Both of these MH1 decisions had the effect of making modern more expensive. Existing staples prices were not diminished, new staples required purpchases.

EDIT: new cards -> reprints
Last edited by pierreb 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Necrofish » 1 year ago

SFM and the like is best reserved to either prepare a set with Equipment support or for a small shake in the meta should it ever become stale. While there might not be a reason to keep SFM banned, WotC doesn't need to unban it either.
Wydwen is much too cool for you.

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Post by TheAnswer » 1 year ago

pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
New cards were limited to cards that were entirely new to modern.
I'm not sure what this means? New cards... were new... to everything? How would you have new cards that already existed? The whole gimmick of the set was that the cards were not Modern legal before, not sure if that's what you were trying to get at.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

TheAnswer wrote:
1 year ago
pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
New cards were limited to cards that were entirely new to modern.
I'm not sure what this means? New cards... were new... to everything? How would you have new cards that already existed? The whole gimmick of the set was that the cards were not Modern legal before, not sure if that's what you were trying to get at.
It seemed to be tied to the idea that this was the only place to get these new cards for Modern. There are no other mass-produced, mass-opened sources for these new cards, so the prices of anything that sees even a moderate amount of play will absolutely explode.

Again, format-breaking accidents due to poor and inadequate testing aside, this set took an already expensive format and added a bunch of $25-50 staples to it. Staples that will only continue to go up in price until reprinted 2+ years from now. Especially Wrenn and Six, which is pushing $90.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Wrenn could easily be a $150 card if more stock is not opened up lol.
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Post by Albegas » 1 year ago

pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Modern Horizons was and seems to be a huge success. We were asking for a set like this for so many years and finally it became a reality.a Remand, Cryptic Command, Electrolyze deck being stronger again? :)
Just for the record, if Wizards ever take into account players opinion, I thought MH1 had two problems:

The balance between reprints and new cards was too skewed toward new cards.

New cards were limited to cards that were entirely new to modern.

Both of these MH1 decisions had the effect of making modern more expensive. Existing staples prices were not diminished, new staples required purpchases.
A set full of new cards (in the context of Modern) with a limited stock will never going to make the format cheaper. New cards will either force out old staples and become the new staples, thus forcing players to replace staples that will drop in value, or the new cards will be added onto the pile of staples one needs to purchase. The only way to drop the prices of cards currently legal in Modern without destroying the demand for those cards is to increase the supply via reprints, and it was a known factor that this set would only contain cards not previously legal in Modern (except the snow lands if you really want to be technical).

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Horizons set had a mix of reprints of currently legal cards and cards that would be new to modern. Given that they don't really want to do Masters sets anymore, throwing some higher demand reprints in would mean needing to design and discuss fewer new cards while also providing an outlet for reprints that may otherwise feel too forced in whatever supplementary products they come out with in the future. It was good that the premier of the set was entirely new cards, but if they plan on doing a Horizons set every year, I would be understanding if subsequent years didn't follow suit

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Post by Necrofish » 1 year ago

Albegas wrote:
1 year ago
[...]It was good that the premier of the set was entirely new cards, but if they plan on doing a Horizons set every year, I would be understanding if subsequent years didn't follow suit
Oh god, could you imagine a set full of new cards as powerful as MH1 every few years? I'd drop the format. I don't have the money for that.
Definitely needs more reprints in MH2.
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

At $90, Wrenn is out of stock on SCG, so...yeah that card is going to be nuts. Just read an article that its basically forcing a huge shift in Legacy meta, if it REALLY takes off in Modern its going to be painful for folks.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
At $90, Wrenn is out of stock on SCG, so...yeah that card is going to be nuts. Just read an article that its basically forcing a huge shift in Legacy meta, if it REALLY takes off in Modern its going to be painful for folks.
I could imagine Wasteland loops are a thing with it...

It's long term use in Modern seems really likely. A ridiculously cheap PW that allows you to cut lands and has nothing but upside seems great for any deck that can cast it.

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Post by Necrofish » 1 year ago

At least Wrenn and six makes ppl buy more boosters, which will help with the supply of other cards.
Wydwen is much too cool for you.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

Necrofish wrote:
1 year ago
I'm happy about the set. My wallet is not.
Same.... I want to cry a little when I look at prices. And when I say a little I mean a lot.

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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

TheAnswer wrote:
1 year ago
pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
New cards were limited to cards that were entirely new to modern.
I'm not sure what this means? New cards... were new... to everything? How would you have new cards that already existed? The whole gimmick of the set was that the cards were not Modern legal before, not sure if that's what you were trying to get at.
lol. I meant reprints were limited to cards that were new to modern. What I wrote made little sense indeed...

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
At $90, Wrenn is out of stock on SCG, so...yeah that card is going to be nuts. Just read an article that its basically forcing a huge shift in Legacy meta, if it REALLY takes off in Modern its going to be painful for folks.
I could imagine Wasteland loops are a thing with it...

It's long term use in Modern seems really likely. A ridiculously cheap PW that allows you to cut lands and has nothing but upside seems great for any deck that can cast it.
Yeah, I can see it in a not long time frame becoming oppressive in Legacy actually.
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