[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

Aazadan
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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
The alternative has them imploding the the whole game in a race to the bottom. Cmc can only go so low.
I would be very interested in a comparison of this, but it feels to me like the CMC of the format, has been going up over time, not down.
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I mean really, what we are talking about is the death of non-standard/limited/edh Magic is it not?

Modern will be dead inside 2 years.
Legacy is dead for all intents and purposes.
Vintage is dead for all intents and purposes.

If the current design philosophy is followed, Pioneer will not last 5 years, as it will devolve to hyper aggro and ramp.

That's honestly how I see the long game playing out.
I don't fully agree with you often, but I do on this, with a couple of caveats. Vintage and Legacy are basically dead now in paper (and as someone who owns a substantial paper Legacy collection, I am quite ticked off at this). I think the chances of either coming to Arena are slim, though I don't fully rule it out. A similar argument to my argument for adding Modern to Arena exists for Legacy, but the card pool that would need to be added is larger. But, unlike Modern I think Wizards doesn't want to encourage Legacy or Vintage in any way because they can't be realistically played in paper.

I think that if changes don't happen, Modern will not survive. But, I don't think the format is dead yet. I do however think that there are some very deep issues in the format regarding the sustainability of card printings and reprintings, the balance of threats vs answers, and the future of online play.

With the current design philosophy though, I truly think Pioneer has less than 1 year. The only way they are keeping interest up right now is with constant bans in order to keep the meta in flux so that it continues to feel new. Plus, Wizards has gone hard on sponsoring people to stream Pioneer lately.

Also, I want to add that we're probably not ever getting EDH on Arena, and we all know MTGO doesn't have long left. Wizards has been taking more control over EDH, with EDH like formats lately. I think they're going to try and kill that format too in favor of things like Brawl.
Last edited by Aazadan 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I mean really, what we are talking about is the death of non-standard/limited/edh Magic is it not?

Modern will be dead inside 2 years.
Legacy is dead for all intents and purposes.
Vintage is dead for all intents and purposes.

If the current design philosophy is followed, Pioneer will not last 5 years, as it will devolve to hyper aggro and ramp.

That's honestly how I see the long game playing out.
I strongly disagree. People have played legacy and vintage effectively from beginning of the game over 25 years ago, they are not dead now and will not be dead in 2 years from now. Legacy/vintage Get less focus from WOTC than they did years ago, but that is ok. Modern getting less attention is also ok, it's not dead and won't be in 2 years.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
The only thing that would save Modern, except for a wilful Wizards turnabout in its Arena decisions, is if Pioneer was super unhealthy at the end of 2020 and did not have the reality/perception that any deck could win.
ktkenshinx Interesting argument. To be clear, I disagree with you and have said why previously (largely that the amount of work to add all Modern relevant cards prior to RTR is less work than adding all of RTR block itself, so putting Modern into Arena shouldn't be all that more ambitious than adding Pioneer, and Modern could be important for certain visible events as team events typically need 3 constructed formats).
I thought I replied to this earlier, but maybe it didn't go through. In summary, I fully believe Wizards is capable of adding Modern to Arena. They are just deciding not to and have been alarmingly silent or dismissive of the idea. They have been very public about Historic and its eventual transition into Pioneer, because this solves the problem of rotation on Arena. But they've said nothing about Modern or other formats. If those formats come to Arena, that would be very helpful. There's just no evidence I have seen to suggest it's happening, so I'm banking on Pioneer being the way of the nonrotating future.
But, this is an interesting thought exercise. Because both Modern and Pioneer need the same answer cards ultimately, Pioneer may need even more. Thus, in order to add the cards to Modern that would fix Modern, it would involve adding the cards to Pioneer to fix that format.
Not necessarily, because Wizards can introduce cards to Modern through MH2 or similar products. But in general, yes, Standard-legal sets need a bottom to top overhaul regarding design/development/testing. This would probably lead to cards being legal in both Modern and Pioneer.
Thus, your argument is that the only way to save Modern as a tournament level format, would be to not fix the interaction issues we've been discussing for the past several pages.

And perhaps that has implications for the argument promoting the need for bans rather than new cards.
The big flaw in this spin of the argument is that you can introduce answers to Pioneer that are already in Modern but not in Pioneer. For example, Pioneer might need a Bolt effect or something similar to handle mana dorks. Or a second viable fetchland to trigger revolt. These are things that wouldn't impact Modern at all, but would absolutely change the Pioneer landscape.

Another flaw is that Wizards can start printing modal answers that are good enough for Pioneer even if they aren't good enough for Modern. Similarly, some of their most broken threats might not synergize as well with Pioneer's smaller card pool relative to Modern's. Karn Creator isn't particularly dominant in Pioneer because it can't get Bridge or Lattice. Amalgam and Narcomoeba are just fine because there are no dredgers. We can go on and on with examples like this. Ultimately, all of this means you have to separate the impact of new cards/design strategies on Pioneer from their impact on Modern. Something that helps Pioneer may either do nothing at all in Modern (e.g. reprinting Bolt in a Standard-legal set), or be too weak to help Modern but just right to help Pioneer. You can also flip this entire paradigm! Wizards can easily print cards that are awesome in Modern because of existing synergies with fetchlands and cheap cantrips, but useless in Pioneer (see DRS or delve cards).

In case I wasn't clear earlier, the only way to save Modern is to bring it to Arena or hope Pioneer is so bad in 2020 there isn't any demand for it to replace Modern. The design/dev/testing issues are much bigger than Modern. Those are Magic-wide issues.
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I mean really, what we are talking about is the death of non-standard/limited/edh Magic is it not?

Modern will be dead inside 2 years.
Legacy is dead for all intents and purposes.
Vintage is dead for all intents and purposes.

If the current design philosophy is followed, Pioneer will not last 5 years, as it will devolve to hyper aggro and ramp.

That's honestly how I see the long game playing out.
I strongly disagree. People have played legacy and vintage effectively from beginning of the game over 25 years ago, they are not dead now and will not be dead in 2 years from now. Legacy/vintage Get less focus from WOTC than they did years ago, but that is ok. Modern getting less attention is also ok, it's not dead and won't be in 2 years.
Fringe formats with almost zero paper tournament support, and soon to be zero official online support are effectively dead.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
Fringe formats with almost zero paper tournament support, and soon to be zero official online support are effectively dead.
It depends on how you frame it. If you are saying that the format won't be played at local tournaments or it will be played less often, then I think that's wrong. Around the Los Angeles, CA area, there are plenty of weekend tournaments to play Legacy. Now if you're saying that the format doesn't really have room to grow, I actually agree because it staples are not being reprinted, staples are becoming hoarded by fewer people, and there just aren't going to be many physical copies of the cards or the desire for players in other formats to pay several $1,000 for a mana base.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Yep. Like I mentioned if I could afford the $4000+ mana base, and there was anyone else local to support it, I would play legacy.

There isn't though.
UR Control UR

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
I mean really, what we are talking about is the death of non-standard/limited/edh Magic is it not?

Modern will be dead inside 2 years.
Legacy is dead for all intents and purposes.
Vintage is dead for all intents and purposes.

If the current design philosophy is followed, Pioneer will not last 5 years, as it will devolve to hyper aggro and ramp.

That's honestly how I see the long game playing out.
I strongly disagree. People have played legacy and vintage effectively from beginning of the game over 25 years ago, they are not dead now and will not be dead in 2 years from now. Legacy/vintage Get less focus from WOTC than they did years ago, but that is ok. Modern getting less attention is also ok, it's not dead and won't be in 2 years.
Fringe formats with almost zero paper tournament support, and soon to be zero official online support are effectively dead.
My LGS has a legacy event that fires off once a month. So did my last LGS. I see a paper legacy event on twich at least monthly. Vintage is much less frequent due to the price, but they are not dead and I certainly wouldn't call them fringe.

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
Fringe formats with almost zero paper tournament support, and soon to be zero official online support are effectively dead.
It depends on how you frame it. If you are saying that the format won't be played at local tournaments or it will be played less often, then I think that's wrong. Around the Los Angeles, CA area, there are plenty of weekend tournaments to play Legacy. Now if you're saying that the format doesn't really have room to grow, I actually agree because it staples are not being reprinted, staples are becoming hoarded by fewer people, and there just aren't going to be many physical copies of the cards or the desire for players in other formats to pay several $1,000 for a mana base.
Even locally a lot of areas have been getting less and less people show up for a while. SCG dropping all tournament support for the format was the final nail in the coffin for a lot of people, even if they are from areas SCG events aren't held. Perception to players is huge and the current perception of the legacy format that it is dead.

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago

I strongly disagree. People have played legacy and vintage effectively from beginning of the game over 25 years ago, they are not dead now and will not be dead in 2 years from now. Legacy/vintage Get less focus from WOTC than they did years ago, but that is ok. Modern getting less attention is also ok, it's not dead and won't be in 2 years.
Fringe formats with almost zero paper tournament support, and soon to be zero official online support are effectively dead.
My LGS has a legacy event that fires off once a month. So did my last LGS. I see a paper legacy event on twich at least monthly. Vintage is much less frequent due to the price, but they are not dead and I certainly wouldn't call them fringe.
A format with zero competitive support and that has almost no paper events is the very definition of fringe. As you said you have one tournament a month and we we all know the format has a declining playerbase. Not to mention some of the key reserve list cards have started dropping due to people selling out of the format

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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
This is also using the distinction that GDS is a non-linear deck. While it may be able to play a non-linear game in games 2 and 3, it is very much successful because of its ability to strip removal with discard, clear blockers with removal, land a fatty, protect the fatty, and combo kill with TBR. It tries to do this pretty much every game every time, and there aren't really any backup plans, especially game 1. While a few cards come in here and there for the "grindy matchups," and can make for a wonderfully interactive back and forth, it is certainly the exception and not the rule, in my experience. It can swing either way, to be honest, but based on the way most of my games play out, I would definitely lean towards linear more often than not. London Mulligan pushes that direction even more.

Interpretations aside, this already looks awful with GDS in. If you remove GDS, you are taking away nearly half of that "non-linear" chunk.
Protect the queen is what most Delver (and tempo) decks do. Some draws with threat on T1, removal/counter/discard x2 and some burn are what Grixis Delver did and what Delver decks do in Legacy, which GDS emulates or rather adapted to its next step given its surroundings.

Granted free counters are a thing in Legacy, the above lines feel really linear and uninteractive for the opponent but are not. Same with Jund's Discard into Goyf/Bob into Lili which is extremely feelsbad-y and linear. So, I'm comfortable with GDS doing what it does.
gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Wizards need to unban cards in modern. And also ban something from those urza abominations.
Again, you have positive matchups against all of those decks you mentioned, being faster than all of them (plus you got 2 or more explosives in the main deck to deal with 0 costed permanents from Urza decks). Again you not liking the decks is not a basis for banning decks. Data from GP Columbus will show us if it really needs a hit, so far we have only conversion rate, which while concerning do no not rise to the threshold of needing a ban.

Strongly agree on the unban cards though.
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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Modern has half of the people it used to at my area. Its alarming. Some people I talk to, say they just hate playing against the top dogs, like urza, tron, etron, amulet, even GDS as TBR is presenting a hyper quick kill and as cfusionpm is saying, the deck pretty much tries to kill you afap game 1.
Particularly, many jund players just can't get the win rates they would like. Players who are good with their decks. Also UW players, same. Modern is too hostile towards those kind of decks nowadays.

I also think modern is too linear for my own taste and at this point I already stopped playing until some brave changes are done. Going karnmulet with my trusty amulet deck is what I must do to have game against tron and urza variants, and i really hate this. I also hate trying to just go off at turn 3 with amulet, as the deck is really turn 4, but some times on the draw, its just jot enough. It feels like a race and most game are about the opening hand you get to draw.

Wizards need to unban cards in modern. And also ban something from those urza abominations.
You might as well just quit playing magic at the rate we are going. This isn't a modern only issue and every format is suffering in simillar ways at the moment. For example we had our standard WPNQ events these last two weekends that only got 20ish players. Simillar events for standard got 100-150 players in our area only 2-3 years ago.

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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
That is sad. And probably going to get worse, because its really tiring.
I am particularly sad, because its the first time i heavily dislike modern in my life. :(
Maybe a break is for the best.

At this point, do unbans solve the problem alone though? Just wondering. If you throw pod and twin out there, maybe GSZ also, what changes for the best? Hope there is not a need for bans, really. But, not sure.
Had a (kinda forced) break this summer, luckily during the Hogaak debacle, it can really help. Plus the players a my store while competitive, don't shy away from bringing brews so we get a big variety of decks.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

Here's what I'm wondering:

If WotC stops supporting Modern, will people stop playing it?

Even if Hasbro pushes arena and pioneer/commander until Modern effectively dies, people will still have physical cards. I'll still play Modern with my friends even if WotC doesn't support it. How many other people will do the same? Isn't that effectively where Legacy is? My LGS fires off weekly Legacy tournaments... won't Modern be the same?

I have no desire to play Arena or MTGO because I don't like video/computer games. I like playing with cards. Even if wizards literally stops printing cards, I will keep playing their game. At that point, they would be stupid to not keep making stuff for me to buy. I think some of the OG creators at WotC know that there is something special about physical game pieces versus digital.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Here's what I'm wondering:

If WotC stops supporting Modern, will people stop playing it?
It all depends on whether or not you find Modern "fun." A lot of people do not, and have not for a while. And between the exhausting year of bad design and the introduction of a new format, feelings for Modern feel like an all-time low. Like, maybe even worse than Eldrazi Winter-bad, because there isn't just one thing to point to as 'the problem.'

I've only played in paper twice in the past 2 months, and both experiences were fairly terrible; a trend that has continued through most of this year. I have lost pretty much all motivation to make the trek out to FNMs indefinitely. Many of the other locals have moved to Pioneer; at least anyone that wants to attempt to play interactive games. All that seems to be left on the Modern tables are Dredge, Burn, Tron, Titanshift, and Urza. I didn't even see any other GDS decks last time I was there. If nothing changes, Modern is in for a rough couple of months.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
I thought I replied to this earlier, but maybe it didn't go through. In summary, I fully believe Wizards is capable of adding Modern to Arena. They are just deciding not to and have been alarmingly silent or dismissive of the idea. They have been very public about Historic and its eventual transition into Pioneer, because this solves the problem of rotation on Arena. But they've said nothing about Modern or other formats. If those formats come to Arena, that would be very helpful. There's just no evidence I have seen to suggest it's happening, so I'm banking on Pioneer being the way of the nonrotating future.
Maybe you did and I missed it. I think there's something you're not taking into account here though which is the cost/benefit of adding it. Getting all of the important cards into Arena for Modern isn't that big of an undertaking compared to everything else. As a format where they could then reprint cards essentially into oblivion (and Modern not having reserve list problems in paper), they can attempt to push the format more.

Where this becomes important is in team events, and when MTGO is eventually shut down. Team events typically require three constructed formats. With the current block structure, block constructed is essentially out. Standard exists, and Pioneer exists. Frontier is a temporary and online only format, so it's not a long term solution. By default, that means that Modern is going to be necessary for team play.

Additionally, given the relatively low overhead in adding Modern after Pioneer is added (which I can agree is certainly the priority), the cost/benefit ratio of being able to then sell those older cards, as well as sets like Modern Horizons, and any other sorts of Masters sets online would easily justify the expense in adding the format.
The big flaw in this spin of the argument is that you can introduce answers to Pioneer that are already in Modern but not in Pioneer. For example, Pioneer might need a Bolt effect or something similar to handle mana dorks. Or a second viable fetchland to trigger revolt. These are things that wouldn't impact Modern at all, but would absolutely change the Pioneer landscape.
Very true, but cards like Bolt aren't really going to solve the problem. It would help of course, all strong answers help somewhat, but Wizards isn't going to allow a card like Lightning Bolt to cleanly answer a 4 drop. We're seeing that issue in Modern now (and at the formats start we were on the other side of that issue). They seem to really like the idea of trying to make cards trade at parity at similar mana exchanges. So Bolt would get adopted, and then face a slew of bolt resistant threats.

In case I wasn't clear earlier, the only way to save Modern is to bring it to Arena or hope Pioneer is so bad in 2020 there isn't any demand for it to replace Modern. The design/dev/testing issues are much bigger than Modern. Those are Magic-wide issues.
Agree on both. But to add one, I have serious consumer confidence issues in Magic right now. Promo/product fatigue reminds me of just before the 90's comics crash. I feel seriously burned by what they did to Legacy recently. And I'm feeling some of that burn with Modern Horizons too, which I am feeling like was nothing more than a cash grab with no intention of continuing the format after it was sold as I am seriously wondering if they're about to retire Modern shortly after releasing that.

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Post by Trazaeth » 1 year ago

I have been lurking on these new boards for months now. What I can say is, threats are getting stronger and stronger. However, modal spells like Drown in the Loch give me hope that we will see better cards eventually.

Anyone who thinks that we don't need better answers is honestly way off base. At this point, I don't really want bans, I think we should shift modern to legacy lite, and give us fow and other tools to combat this, including better draw spells. Why? Because at this point, legacy is realistically dead. Unless people are buying Chinese fakes.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Here's what I'm wondering:

If WotC stops supporting Modern, will people stop playing it?
It all depends on whether or not you find Modern "fun." A lot of people do not, and have not for a while. And between the exhausting year of bad design and the introduction of a new format, feelings for Modern feel like an all-time low. Like, maybe even worse than Eldrazi Winter-bad, because there isn't just one thing to point to as 'the problem.'

I've only played in paper twice in the past 2 months, and both experiences were fairly terrible; a trend that has continued through most of this year. I have lost pretty much all motivation to make the trek out to FNMs indefinitely. Many of the other locals have moved to Pioneer; at least anyone that wants to attempt to play interactive games. All that seems to be left on the Modern tables are Dredge, Burn, Tron, Titanshift, and Urza. I didn't even see any other GDS decks last time I was there. If nothing changes, Modern is in for a rough couple of months.
I think you are right. But, I think the people who find it fun will keep it going much like Legacy players. They all seem to have fun playing Legacy. Because the barrier to entry is so high, there are few unhappy/unwilling Legacy players. Also, because Legacy is not a premier tournament format you have more people playing decks because they enjoy them NOT because they will be the most competitive.

I've played Modern at my LGS twice in the past month but probably 15 out of 30 nights casually with my friends. I don't see the latter changing because of WotC. At my LGS I don't see any Urza, dredge, Tron, or burn. Titanshift and GDS are the most "unfair" decks in the bunch. People seem pretty good at self policing their own fun and I think they will do it with/without WotC.

But for those who find Modern unfun, I see them leaving for Pioneer pretty quickly.

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Here's what I'm wondering:

If WotC stops supporting Modern, will people stop playing it?

Even if Hasbro pushes arena and pioneer/commander until Modern effectively dies, people will still have physical cards. I'll still play Modern with my friends even if WotC doesn't support it. How many other people will do the same? Isn't that effectively where Legacy is? My LGS fires off weekly Legacy tournaments... won't Modern be the same?
This is pretty much what I've been saying. I believe the answer is yes people will continue to play it just like legacy. People will play what they want to play and if that is modern it will continue to live. Weekly or even monthly tournaments do not seem like a dead format to me.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Modern has half of the people it used to at my area. Its alarming. Some people I talk to, say they just hate playing against the top dogs, like urza, tron, etron, amulet, even GDS as TBR is presenting a hyper quick kill and as cfusionpm is saying, the deck pretty much tries to kill you afap game 1.
Particularly, many jund players just can't get the win rates they would like. Players who are good with their decks. Also UW players, same. Modern is too hostile towards those kind of decks nowadays.

I also think modern is too linear for my own taste and at this point I already stopped playing until some brave changes are done. Going karnmulet with my trusty amulet deck is what I must do to have game against tron and urza variants, and i really hate this. I also hate trying to just go off at turn 3 with amulet, as the deck is nore like turn 4 to kill the opp, but some times on the draw, its just not enough. It feels like a race and most games are about the opening hand you get to draw.

Wizards need to unban cards in modern. And also ban something from those urza abominations.
Same issues here with Modern. A year ago my area had two stores, one was doing Modern for the first 3 weeks each month then a draft for the fourth, the other did a Modern/Standard rotation every other week. Between the two stores (keep in mind, a fairly small town area, maybe 100k population in driving distance to these stores) we were getting 40 people. Same format rotation today, except one more store opened that is Standard only, and it's down to about 6 people on Modern nights, and maybe 12 people in total between the three stores.

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Post by Trazaeth » 1 year ago

Yeah to be clear I am playing u/b control in pioneer. It's not the best thing to be doing sure, but it's fun and I like it a lot. I look at my remands, rune snags, mana leaks, logic knots and force of negations and am like wow these would be so nice in Pioneer. Do I think they SHOULD be? Not necessarily.

What I think is that if the reserve list is as done as they say it is. Open up modern to be legacy lite already. Amp up the answers and get dual lands that are both snow and check lands:

Fetid Sea - Snow Island Swamp

Fetid Sea comes into play tapped unless you control ANOTHER Swamp or Island

Win for everyone across the board imo.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Here's what I'm wondering:

If WotC stops supporting Modern, will people stop playing it?

Even if Hasbro pushes arena and pioneer/commander until Modern effectively dies, people will still have physical cards. I'll still play Modern with my friends even if WotC doesn't support it. How many other people will do the same? Isn't that effectively where Legacy is? My LGS fires off weekly Legacy tournaments... won't Modern be the same?

I have no desire to play Arena or MTGO because I don't like video/computer games. I like playing with cards. Even if wizards literally stops printing cards, I will keep playing their game. At that point, they would be stupid to not keep making stuff for me to buy. I think some of the OG creators at WotC know that there is something special about physical game pieces versus digital.
I don't think they care. The more I research things, the more I think the direction of their current President is to blame. He's really into esports and expanding that. I truly think their long term goal at this point is to move the game entirely to digital as the main way to play.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

Trazaeth wrote:
1 year ago
What I think is that if the reserve list is as done as they say it is. Open up modern to be legacy lite already. Amp up the answers and get dual lands that are both snow and check lands:

Fetid Sea - Snow Island Swamp

Fetid Sea comes into play tapped unless you control ANOTHER Swamp or Island

Win for everyone across the board imo.
This is a great idea. Or you could have it "check" for another snow permanent like arcum's astrolabe . Overall I think this is a good idea.

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Post by Trazaeth » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Trazaeth wrote:
1 year ago
What I think is that if the reserve list is as done as they say it is. Open up modern to be legacy lite already. Amp up the answers and get dual lands that are both snow and check lands:

Fetid Sea - Snow Island Swamp

Fetid Sea comes into play tapped unless you control ANOTHER Swamp or Island

Win for everyone across the board imo.
This is a great idea. Or you could have it "check" for another snow permanent like arcum's astrolabe . Overall I think this is a good idea.
If I owned WOTC I would ban any card on the reserve list in ALL formats. Some would say this would destroy legacy and vintage, but that's already been destroyed by the barrier to entry imo.

Yawgmoth
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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

Trazaeth wrote:
1 year ago
If I owned WOTC I would ban any card on the reserve list in ALL formats. Some would say this would destroy legacy and vintage, but that's already been destroyed by the barrier to entry imo.
Problem solved!

Shock lands are only bad in legacy because everyone else has duals. If you ban duals then you even the playing field.

Until that day comes, I'm selling a bunch of modern cards to get badlands .

Yawgmoth
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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Here's what I'm wondering:

If WotC stops supporting Modern, will people stop playing it?

Even if Hasbro pushes arena and pioneer/commander until Modern effectively dies, people will still have physical cards. I'll still play Modern with my friends even if WotC doesn't support it. How many other people will do the same? Isn't that effectively where Legacy is? My LGS fires off weekly Legacy tournaments... won't Modern be the same?

I have no desire to play Arena or MTGO because I don't like video/computer games. I like playing with cards. Even if wizards literally stops printing cards, I will keep playing their game. At that point, they would be stupid to not keep making stuff for me to buy. I think some of the OG creators at WotC know that there is something special about physical game pieces versus digital.
I don't think they care. The more I research things, the more I think the direction of their current President is to blame. He's really into esports and expanding that. I truly think their long term goal at this point is to move the game entirely to digital as the main way to play.
I sincerely hope you are wrong.

But if you aren't... Maybe they will go all digital and stop supporting paper magic. Then the players can take control of all the non-rotating formats and make it fun again (like they did with EDH). I just can't imagine I will stop playing with my cards just because WotC stops printing them.

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