[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Tzoulis
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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
I'll be putting my money where my mouth is and an liquidating much of my collection. I have been so utterly dissatisfied with Modern for so long, and the current state of affairs tells us that dawn is not on the horizon.

Besides just not having time to play in paper anymore, I'm finding myself less and less inclined to even want or try to make time to play in paper. In addition to being unable to find a deck I'm in love with, and being wholly dissatisfied with the state of modern, the continued trend of unsatisfying gameplay day after day just makes me feel over it.

But mostly, my confidence in WOTC's ability to "manage" modern is absolutely and completely gone. If anyone still has a shred of that left, or interested in cards that have become Pioneer Staples, I would be happy to get rid of mine.
Have you tried/seen the UR Kiki Cutthroat? Because the one playing it on reddit had multiple 5-0's on a pretty good spread of matchups.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

League 5-0s are beyond meaningless.

I'll clarify that my position is heavily slanted towards paper. Because in order to play in paper, I have to carve 4 to 6 hours out of an incredibly dense schedule which includes being up early for a long commute, prepping and planning all afternoon while watching a baby, and repeating that process everyday. It might be worth it, if those experiences that I spent so much time and effort planning for weren't such a heaping pile of disappointment and frustration week after week.

I still play some online, when I can. But mostly because I play free, casual rooms, and avoid a lot of the misery and terrible crap that I usually face in a highly competitive paper world. I can also offset the inevitable feel bads by simply quitting the match and jumping in another one. That way if I have some frustrating or deeply unsatisfying match, I can just leave and find something better. I'm not stuck there for hours on end playing against narrow goldfish decks that are mind numbing to engage with. I can mitigate many of the problems that modern has by simply refusing to participate in them.

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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

Multiple 5-0's with a stellar spread of matchups do matter though, which you ignored.

If you're fed up with Modern, Pioneer won't be any better and I don't know what gave you that impression.

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

iTaLenTZ wrote:
1 year ago
I just saw the GP, MKM and SCG results and I do fear for an Oko ban. Bant control looks very strong and bant Urzoko is even stronger. After those a lot of decks play Oko or are starting to splash just for Oko. Too me that is format-warping.

Modern Magicfest Columbus only had 657 players. That is concerningly low. Magicfest Gent just 2 months ago had 1440 players, Magicfest Barcelona had 1514 players. This is another clear sign people are done with this format and jumped ship as soon as Pioneer got introduced. That means people were playing Modern not because they loved it but because a better alternative didn't exist and soon as it presented itself Modern's attendance went downhill really fast.
I wouldn't even put it down to just Modern. Paper Magic as a whole has suffered these last 12 months while wizards continues to push arena instead

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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
We had good planeswalkers before 2019. It's that 2019 brought us a critical mass of them. This seems to have been intentional too, and a new direction for the game considering that it coincided with Planeswalkers now being made available in multiple rarities.
Not just a critical mass of good walkers, we've had some of the most powerful walkers ever printed in the last year+.

I want to take everyone back to before Dominaria. Think about the best walkers we got in the years before that. Gideon of the Trials, saw a bit of Modern play. Good card, not an auto-include in white control decks, but it's a card you might want to play. Saheeli Rai. A unique design that created an archetype with Felidar Guardian, but doesn't see play outside of that. Nissa Vital Force. Solid sideboard walker for green fair decks in control-heavy metas. Liliana the Last Hope. Great card, strong against decks with 1 toughness creatures, strong against control, good in decks where you have your own high impact creatures that you would want to buyback. Still, she's played as a 1-of in GBx Midrange, maybe a 2-of in some GDS lists. Finally, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. This was probably the strongest in Standard of all these walkers, and probably should have been banned there. Yet, he doesn't see a lot of Modern play. He's good in token decks, but those aren't good in Modern. If a token deck ever becomes a thing, I suspect he'll pop up and be just fine in that deck.

Now, outside of those new cards, think of the strongest Planeswalkers we had in Modern. Liliana of the Veil was the strongest walker in the format for a long time. She was always thought of as the second most powerful planeswalker ever printed. She's really strong against certain strategies, almost oppressively so, but she's also really bad against the other half of the meta. Then we got Jace the Mind Sculptor. Long heralded as the most powerful planeswalker ever printed. He's very strong if you get to activate him multiple times, but ultimately he's a 4-drop card advantage engine in a format that's about tempo and is very creature-centric. That's why Jace hasn't dominated the format like some people thought he would, the incentives in this format just don't align with what Jace does. He's strong in individual matchups that are slower and where card advantage matters, but that's not a majority of the format. So like LotV, he's very good against certain matchups, and pretty lackluster against other things.

Now think about the hits we've had in the past year+. Does anyone else remember when we were discussing whether Teferi, Hero of Dominaria was actually stronger than Jace? I played a lot of UW Control over the past couple years, and while Jace is really strong, T5feri is the card that people scoop to the most. Whether he's actually stronger than Jace or not, the fact that we even were having that discussion showed that he was a power-level miss by design.

Then WAR happened. Narset, T3feri, Karn. There's a real argument for all 3 of these being better than JTMS. And that's not to mention all the other walkers in the set who aren't as good as those three, but are still good enough to see wide play. We had like 6 planeswalkers that were good enough to see some play in Modern for a period of like 4 years, and then we got like 10 in a single set. But enough about WAR, I think we all agree that it was a huge design mistake.

Finally, we come to Throne of Eldraine and Oko. He's kind of the final nail in the coffin of them pushing planeswalkers over the last year. He's the first mythic rare from the most recent set banned in Standard. First Planeswalker banned in Standard since JTMS. Is there even any argument that he's the most powerful planeswalker ever printed? The one positive here is that they've admitted he was a design mistake, so they weren't intending to push him this far. Still, they did intend for the WAR walkers to be as strong as they are, and they probably aimed Oko to be about the same power-level, but missed upwards. Even The Royal Scions, which I think is a fine card in general, probably starts with 1 more loyalty than it should.

So the problem is not really planeswalkers in general. The 5 playable walkers we got in the years before Dominaria were all fine. Even T5feri is pretty fine in comparison to what came after him. The problem is that WotC decided, for some reason, to push walkers in the past year, and they did this at the same time as deciding to make a set with 30-something walkers in it. That's a recipe for disaster for all formats, and that's exactly what happened. A disaster.

Short of just banning all these cards in almost every format, which they won't do, there's one way to fix this. First, you stop pushing walkers. Apparently they've already decided to do this, since they said in their article that they're not going to be pushing 3 mana walkers anymore. That's not enough on its own, though, because these pushed walkers already exist. We need better answers to planeswalkers. It's not an optional thing anymore because of what they've done in the past year, it's something they absolutely have to do to restore the balance to the game.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
Multiple 5-0's with a stellar spread of matchups do matter though, which you ignored.

If you're fed up with Modern, Pioneer won't be any better and I don't know what gave you that impression.
1) 5-0s are tremendously useless because they are non-swiss and highly susceptible to variance. Leagues in general are a fairly poor metric to judge anything by, especially in terms of relative strength. They do not represent any competitive format or outcome that exists in paper.

2a) I have no interest in Pioneer either, and unsure where you would get that impression. I'm just happy that some of my cards previously purchased for Modern (or just had from when i played Standard, and never sold off) are now worth a ton more money now. If my interests shift anywhere, it's to Commander and D&D, where crazy plays, intricate choices, teamwork, collaboration, comradery, and (god forbid!) fun are larger priorities than creating awful experiences for the sake of winning.

2b) The possibility of great gameplay still exists in Modern and there have been some absolutely fantastic matches I have had to navigate with the utmost care and nimble choices. However, playing against Dredge, Titanshift, Burn, Tron, and Urza week after week have sullied those experiences greatly. Did you draw a good opening hand? Y/N. Do I have a narrow hate card? Y/N. Do I have a fast clock to kill you? Y/N. Any 2 or more Ys and I likely win that game, any 2 or more Ns and I likely lose that game. Wow. Such engage. Very strategy. At least Urza tries to outclass everything I'm doing in a bunch of different ways, instead of the same thing every game like the others. And if I wasn't terrified of investing literal thousands of dollars into another deck just to see it banned, I'd probably just be playing Urza (because the Sultai versions with Cryptic Command look fantastic). But if someone wants to mail me all the green manabase, Urzas, Okos, Opals, Bridges, Trophies, etc, I'd be happy to stick out this field of disappointment and frustration.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Wraithpk wrote:
1 year ago
Short of just banning all these cards in almost every format, which they won't do, there's one way to fix this. First, you stop pushing walkers. Apparently they've already decided to do this, since they said in their article that they're not going to be pushing 3 mana walkers anymore. That's not enough on its own, though, because these pushed walkers already exist. We need better answers to planeswalkers. It's not an optional thing anymore because of what they've done in the past year, it's something they absolutely have to do to restore the balance to the game.
Literally zero chance this happens. I agree, its required, but it wont happen. They would need either colourless, or 5 colour's worth of answers, and they need to be PUSHED.

Instead, I predict 2020 will be a complete copy of 2019, and Walkers will absolutely ruin Magic for many many people, especially those of us who have avoided them mostly in Modern/Legacy with decks that are playable without them.

PS: Big Teferi is better than Jace. Its not close. :p
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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
1) 5-0s are tremendously useless because they are non-swiss and highly susceptible to variance. Leagues in general are a fairly poor metric to judge anything by, especially in terms of relative strength. They do not represent any competitive format or outcome that exists in paper.
I mean you can demean multiple 5-0's and a great spread, a good 5-2 finish on the a challenge, plus the player's comments and statistics on reddit all you want, it's only making one thing apparent: You won't EVER enjoy Modern unless they unban Twin.

The deck is right up your alley: Flash plays, Bolt-Snap-Bolt, Blood Moon and even a Twin-like finish with Kiki-Pestermite.

Seriously, I've pointed out that the deck has some evidence of being competitive (in Leagues and a Challenge) and instead of checking it out, you're demeaning Leagues, as if previous busted decks weren't posting back to back 5-0's and THEN got picked up.

Your problem isn't with Modern, your problem is and always has been that you can't play Twin.

[mention]idSurge[/mention] From my experience, 5 mana Teferi just pushed UW Control into competitive status. It gave it another good threat thus upping threat density. JtMS is, imo, still far better and far more important for UW Control (whether it's miracles or not).

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

I know this isn't a selling/trading forum but several people are talking about selling their modern collections. I would like to make it clear I intend to keep playing modern and pioneer so if you are intending to cash out send me a message and I may make you an offer.

*****IF YOU ARE SELLING OUT OF MODERN DM ME, I MAY BUY IT****

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
@idSurge From my experience, 5 mana Teferi just pushed UW Control into competitive status. It gave it another good threat thus upping threat density. JtMS is, imo, still far better and far more important for UW Control (whether it's miracles or not).
I have to respectfully disagree.

Jace without T3feri, is borderline unplayable. Big Teferi put UW back into the playable realm. We cannot look at a card in a vacumn, as that is what gave us 'well maybe SFM is too good for Modern' just like Jace before it.

Within the context of Modern, Big Teferi stood on his own as a viable card. Jace needs considerable help, and before T3feri, was cut down to a singleton because it just wasnt good enough.

Within the context of the deck today? With T3feri and FoN? Sure, Jace is more valuable as it can be protected far easier, but as far as a better Walker on its own, Big T is my man.

Its so good, than in the eventuality that Wizards comes to its god damned mind, and bans these 3 mana walkers, Esper or UW Control is what I would go back to in an instant, in any format I could as Teferi + Azcanta was the last most fun I had in Modern.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
@idSurge From my experience, 5 mana Teferi just pushed UW Control into competitive status. It gave it another good threat thus upping threat density. JtMS is, imo, still far better and far more important for UW Control (whether it's miracles or not).
I have to respectfully disagree.

Jace without T3feri, is borderline unplayable. Big Teferi put UW back into the playable realm. We cannot look at a card in a vacumn, as that is what gave us 'well maybe SFM is too good for Modern' just like Jace before it.

Within the context of Modern, Big Teferi stood on his own as a viable card. Jace needs considerable help, and before T3feri, was cut down to a singleton because it just wasnt good enough.

Within the context of the deck today? With T3feri and FoN? Sure, Jace is more valuable as it can be protected far easier, but as far as a better Walker on its own, Big T is my man.

Its so good, than in the eventuality that Wizards comes to its god damned mind, and bans these 3 mana walkers, Esper or UW Control is what I would go back to in an instant, in any format I could as Teferi + Azcanta was the last most fun I had in Modern.
I have to say that big Teferi was better than Jace, the Mind Sculptor, but in the context of the current Modern I believe it currently is Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Big Teferi isn't super necessary in games to close out. Little Teferi and other tools get you to Jace, the Mind Sculptor and when protected, that card just gets you the game. Of course you have to rely on drawing all the correct answers in the right spots.

That last sentence highlighted, UW Control is not really currently in a good spot in my opinion. It has to have all the right answers at all the right spots and then something like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger out of Tron or Emrakul, the Promised End out of Amulet's SB can just blow you out. Of course, Field of Ruin should keep Ulamog from rearing its ugly head, but you may be on the play, you may not always have it, or they may have multiple Towers.

*I personally haven't even played against UW Control in the past couple of months. I kind of miss it, but then I don't have to have SB cards for it anymore. I took out Cavern of Souls from Amulet and replaced it with Blast Zone, which helps against many things, E Tron being the most important. There used to be a point where I could not escape at least 1 round in every MCQ I'd go to, but not anymore...

**I think the biggest strike against UW Control is that it doesn't have Oko, Thief of Crowns. Once someone figures out how to put the destroyer of hate, destroyer of static win-cons, and win-con in itself into UW, then it probably will be more viable.
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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
Finkel posted recently that PWs are the issue, I go with that to be honest.
They are an issue even when they are well designed, because they print no strong hate other than creatures. Nobody ever got punished for running walkers, that is an issue. Everyone gets punished for something, bar walkers. I get punished when answers don't match up or if my opponent Moons the board and I failed to run basics, but not because I included a set of Teferi or Jace.
I don't want ****ing combat in every match of Mtg. I just don't. It is called variety, and variety is Mtg's strength, gradually being whittled away.
Everything should have a predator. That is why Legacy is great, you can hit everything. Lands, hands, spells, Enchantments, critters. The whole lot. And you can draw smallpox against manaless dredge.
There are no predators for walkers bar suppression field and needle effects. Other than that it is one for one, with them always getting to use it, or one for one discard/counter if you exclude Nevermore effects.

This is why many of the decks I play when I try to abuse things are Planeswalker based. You tap out to play your PW then use manaless spells like Forces, Slaughter Pact, etc... maybe paired with cheap creatures to then protect it until you can untap again. Despite dying to creatures, which all colors have ample access to, PW's are the hardest to remove permanent type.

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Post by MashedPotato » 1 year ago

Having a look again, it seems there is two distinct version of MTG being played, that being in paper and online

Paper seems to suffer a lot less from warping decks and has less overall issues
Online due to the ease of being able to buy in and out of decks allows warping decks to be played.

It has been said earlier already, or something to that effect, however I am now content where I sit in the modern format, playing paper primarily (using mtgo for pauper) with Esper Control and GDS. I am selling out my merfolk and misc modern decks to refine my main decks and moving my UR phoenix shell to pioneer paper.

I don't see modern in paper being as busted as people make it out to be now, the number of players is lowering, but consider the time of year and how long of a year it has been to, its fair to factor those in.

Looking forward to 2020 in paper at a local level anyway and seeing where things go overall (aside from the drama that has plagued events lately)
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
1) 5-0s are tremendously useless because they are non-swiss and highly susceptible to variance. Leagues in general are a fairly poor metric to judge anything by, especially in terms of relative strength. They do not represent any competitive format or outcome that exists in paper.
I mean you can demean multiple 5-0's
Yes. I can, and I will. Leagues are meaningless exercises of chance and variance that have little to no transferable meaning to any paper or non-League. Any deck; literally ANY DECK can 5-0 a League with enough reps.
The deck is right up your alley: Flash plays, Bolt-Snap-Bolt, Blood Moon and even a Twin-like finish with Kiki-Pestermite.
You're right. And when it doesn't get hilariously stomped by 31 flavors of fast/linear/aggro decks, because its interaction tools are laughably weak, its threats are fragile and easy to deal with, and its closing speed is far too slow, even with a perfect hand and perfect mana, it's a super fun deck to play. I would know because I played Blue Moon variants for several years. Adding that little 2/1 merfolk doesn't suddenly make the deck good because one guy put up some League results with it. I'm sure the deck is fun. But It's not saving this god-forsaken format from the dumpster fire it has become, and will invariably continue to be.
Your problem isn't with Modern, your problem is and always has been that you can't play Twin.
You're wrong, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, but you are free to think that.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

With all the pw talk.. the walker I dislike the most is little T3feri, turning instants into sorcery speed is brutal. Unless something is more threatening, most of the time I discard him when seen in opponent's hand. Well, that's just how I feel about the card. Not calling for a ban.

People selling off modern cards? Also aggressively selling off some modern stuff.. but that's only to recover from a certain financial loss. Still have some modern decks I intend to keep, to play with and have fun in this format. Also ready for Pioneer with one deck almost complete, just waiting for the stuff sent by scg. ^___^
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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
I am playing Amulet Titan. Do you know what's the hilarious part about Splinter Twin? (I lost Summer Bloom, they lost their namesake card.)

The hilarious part, is that it was my no.1 bad matchup, and now it's a good one with Kiki-Jiki, The Mirror Breaker , as he is super slow, clunky and I feel they can not even play Blood Moon some times, as the 3rd basic Island is brutal for them.
Also, Turn 3 Primeval titan and multiple Cavern of souls just stomp them. Back in the day, even if I had it, they would just turn 4 go off. My deck is a turn 3.5 deck,
That's how bad Kiki Jiki is in a post-War/post-MH, post-ELD, super powerful 2019's Modern.

Also, funny that I still get to play my Tier 1.5/2 deck, and they are banned into oblivion. Is it fair? Maybe. But right here, right now, there is a better Twin out there that is legal, while the worst one rots in the Banlist.

Turn 5 combo that gets bolted at a Turn 3.5/4 Modern, is absolutely atrocious.
Titan is in under NO circumstances a T1.5/T2 deck. Also, congratulations I guess? KCI players lost their decks as well, with no replacement. That's the point of some bans.

4C-Saheeli gets bolted and it's still competitive, not T1, but definitely T2.

The "creator" (for the sake of simplicity, I don't know if he created it), puts the Amulet/Ramp to slightly positive, as one would expect from a tempo deck that plays counters and Blood Moon.

I'm not debating whether Twin should or shouldn't have been banned, I'm just pointing him towards a deck that is right up its alley, with all his preferred lines, but he decides to whine about 5-0's instead of either picking it up or straight up saying he doesn't like it, that at least would be understandable. His stance (and years of posting history) betrays that he doesn't care about Modern's health, only that he doesn't get to play Twin.
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Yes. I can, and I will. Leagues are meaningless exercises of chance and variance that have little to no transferable meaning to any paper or non-League. Any deck; literally ANY DECK can 5-0 a League with enough reps.
Any deck can win, but back to back 5-0 leagues? And not just 2 back to back. Keep demeaning them, but I'm not talking about one-offs here, which you keep ignoring.
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Adding that little 2/1 merfolk doesn't suddenly make the deck good because one guy put up some League results with it. I'm sure the deck is fun. But It's not saving this god-forsaken format from the dumpster fire it has become, and will invariably continue to be.
I'll trust the judgement of someone who has put the reps in, instead of the person trying to find any and all excuses to demean a deck because it's not his pet deck.

Plenty of decks have changed for the better with the addition of a seemingly innocuous playset of cards.
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
You're wrong, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, but you are free to think that.
I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm making an assessment based on your years of posting in these forums. Even when Modern was regarded healthy by many in here and elsewhere, you were still complaining that you couldn't play Twin and how no deck will do it for you. You even actively called decks bad with no evidence other than your personal bias.

So, no. I'm confident in my assessment and I'll say it again: Your problem -for years- hasn't been with Modern in and of itself, but rather the inability to play ONE specific deck.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
Any deck can win, but back to back 5-0 leagues? And not just 2 back to back. Keep demeaning them, but I'm not talking about one-offs here, which you keep ignoring.
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. Leagues are non-Swiss, meaning you could be paired up with 5 0-x or 1-x decks and steamroll them with whatever pile you brought. None of that matters, and tell me it does over and over again will never change my mind.
I'll trust the judgement of someone who has put the reps in, instead of the person trying to find any and all excuses to demean a deck because it's not his pet deck.

Plenty of decks have changed for the better with the addition of a seemingly innocuous playset of cards.
Sure. You think that. It's not like I spent most of the last 4 years playing Blue Moon variants and know very well the ins and outs of multiple different sub archetypes, what makes the deck strong, what makes it weak, and how to shore up those weaknesses. While that little creature may be a net positive, it still does not address the most basic and fundamental flaws of the deck. Breach, Madcap, Thing, Kiki, and everything in between. I'm sure it's fun. But please stop talking to me like I've never played decks like that before.
So, no. I'm confident in my assessment and I'll say it again: Your problem -for years- hasn't been with Modern in and of itself, but rather the inability to play ONE specific deck.
Sounds more like you tune out anything I have to say and fill in with your own words. I have said most of this past year that my massive dissatisfaction with Modern comes from the sh*t decks I'm forced to play against. Decks with promote awful gameplay and terrible/unsatisfying experiences. It is a trend that began at the end of 2018 and punched full in the face for the entirety of 2019. My stance shifted from "Maybe if I could play Twin, I would hate this format less" to "this format is so far gone that not even playing Twin could save it for me." Hence why I am selling my cards. You want to buy some?
Last edited by cfusionpm 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
Any deck can win, but back to back 5-0 leagues? And not just 2 back to back. Keep demeaning them, but I'm not talking about one-offs here, which you keep ignoring.
It still wouldn't mean anything.

Mediocre decks like Bant Spirits make these 5-0 league dumps every day simply because they're different. And you can hardly find any Bant Spirit deck putting up results outside of 5-0 leagues.

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
I don't want ****ing combat in every match of Mtg. I just don't. It is called variety, and variety is Mtg's strength, gradually being whittled away.
Everything should have a predator. That is why Legacy is great, you can hit everything. Lands, hands, spells, Enchantments, critters. The whole lot.
This is why I'm finally getting into Legacy. It seems like the types of gameplay I like exist in that format but are becoming increasingly rare in Modern. I like countering things and blowing up lands.

My first Modern deck in 2012 was control/mill. I wasn't even trying to play any creatures. Instant speed disruption and counter wars are loads of fun.

Even now, I really don't like playing with planeswalkers but I feel like I'm at a major disadvantage if I don't. They are so obviously powerful in Modern that it's hard to even play the game without them. Playing without creatures or planeswalkers is basically not an option with the exception being Burn (any others?)

metalmusic_4
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

8-rack? Storm and valakut decks can be built without creatures, some old UW lists only ran snapcaster mage and killed with celestial colonade. That's all I got besides burn. None of these creatureless decks are optimal builds.

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

I think if you don't enjoy creatures, it is going to be very hard for you. I played spell based decks for years a long time ago. I enjoyed having my opponents' creature removal be completely dead in their hands. But I had to teach myself to do creature combat. I've gotten much better at it, but I still make mistakes here and there. Watching streams has me talk out creature combat better in my head like the players do.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

metalmusic_4
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

Neoform is creature based but there is no combat, maybe that counts.

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
Neoform is creature based but there is no combat, maybe that counts.
Yes and I love Neoform. It's probably my favorite Modern deck to play currently. Before, I had some problems with facing UW too often and now I had a bit of trouble with the mana, but yes, Neoform is my typical type of "non creature" deck, even if it wins via a creature - Laboratory Maniac. :grin:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Yes, I'm not a purist. I dont even mind if my win condition is a creature, if its a forgone conclusion, and tempo is a fun archetype as your always on the edge of just getting blown out.

Big Teferi + Azcanta is my favorite 'combo' in years.

The problem is, people are seeing the issue, its just not getting to Wizards.

UR Control UR

Yawgmoth
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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

I actually have gravitated towards Goblins (both in legacy and modern) but it plays more as a control/toolbox. I usually win through sacrifice/damage combos. I don't mind playing with creatures but winning through combat makes modern feel like very expensive Hearthstone. Even then I still enjoy myself until someone lands a Karn I wonder why I'm not playing planeswalkers. Red actually doesn't get much PW love weirdly...

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