[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

I feel that having a catchall 2 mana counter like counterspell is probably too good. Maybe |'m overrating it because control isn't great right now but wotc has been really pushing cards like -card]negate[/card] and essence scatter because they are situational

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

I don't care how much money people have put into their collection, that doesn't change the fact that people need to stop being so %$#% argumentative. It's awesome with in depth replies, but everybody just %$#% chill a bit.

I frequent guitar forums quite a lot and people there are generally way more chill to talk with and that's even with musician egos in the mix!

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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

[mention]gkourou[/mention] I'm Greek-Canadian, so there's no language barrier on my part. You keep doing the same mistake that I pointed out, but I said my piece so I won't say any more since it's off topic.
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I came to say that the Face to Face Open+ had a lot of GDS yesterday (including myself) but it looks like a few people are ahead of me in discussing the deck right now.

I actually didn't get paired against any Urza decks yesterday (lifetime matches vs the deck is still at 0) so I don't have an opinion on the GDS vs Urza match.

One thing I find that GDS is good for though is that it's kind of a fun police deck and I like my match vs random nonsense like ad naus and other random combo decks (just avoid dredge). I don't even mind my tron matchup
From my experience, as an Urza Outcome player, GDS is a tricky match up and I've still haven't found the best way to sideboard against them. If I draw more non-creature payoffs I'm usually boned, If I draw my Emrys, Sais and Urzas it's better, but I wouldn't put the match any better than 40-60 in GDS's favor. Oko might change the matchup dynamics, but I'm waiting for a potential ban so I can buy them on the cheap.

Tron is worse, way worse. The only reason I'm 4-1 against Tron is because I keep getting paired against a new Tron player and I keep drawing my 1-of maindeck Pithing Needle to buy me an extra turn or two. Oblivion Stone just wrecks the deck...

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
gkourou I'm Greek-Canadian, so there's no language barrier on my part. You keep doing the same mistake that I pointed out, but I said my piece so I won't say any more since it's off topic.
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I came to say that the Face to Face Open+ had a lot of GDS yesterday (including myself) but it looks like a few people are ahead of me in discussing the deck right now.

I actually didn't get paired against any Urza decks yesterday (lifetime matches vs the deck is still at 0) so I don't have an opinion on the GDS vs Urza match.

One thing I find that GDS is good for though is that it's kind of a fun police deck and I like my match vs random nonsense like ad naus and other random combo decks (just avoid dredge). I don't even mind my tron matchup
From my experience, as an Urza Outcome player, GDS is a tricky match up and I've still haven't found the best way to sideboard against them. If I draw more non-creature payoffs I'm usually boned, If I draw my Emrys, Sais and Urzas it's better, but I wouldn't put the match any better than 40-60 in GDS's favor. Oko might change the matchup dynamics, but I'm waiting for a potential ban so I can buy them on the cheap.

Tron is worse, way worse. The only reason I'm 4-1 against Tron is because I keep getting paired against a new Tron player and I keep drawing my 1-of maindeck Pithing Needle to buy me an extra turn or two. Oblivion Stone just wrecks the deck...
I don't know how I keep dodging the deck but I feel like I'm prepared for it with abrade x 2 and a k command in the side (with 1 in the main) and the usual GDS stuff

I feel that your results against tron are similar to what happened to me against burn early on in a sense that I kept getting paired against weaker burn players/players who didn't know how to play the matchup early on to boost my confidence in the matchup. I picked up GDS early in the deck's life so maybe people were just adjusting to playing against it

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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Counterspell should be unbanned in Modern.

Does anyone have a good reason why this should not be the case? I think this would go a long way in giving Control a place in Modern.
Counterspell is not banned in Modern. It's just not Modern legal. I think it would obviously be fine in Modern at the moment. Would not solve any of the big issues though. Modern seems to be a lot Urza and big mana heavy at the moment(Urza probably being the no. 1 problem).

Mystical Dispute was a fine addition to combat Urza, thankfully.
Sorry, yes you are correct, Counterspell is not banned. Counterspell should be printed in Modern. I think this would go a long way in terms of giving answers that can deal with threats. Having two blue mana up goes a long way in keeping things from getting degenerate.

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Post by MashedPotato » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Having two blue mana up goes a long way in keeping things from getting degenerate.
With that said, it works the other way also, the fine balancing act which has been absent in R&D and play testing.
I think conditional counter spells like Spell Snare / Pierce, even the Force of X are balanced better, all with counter but at a condition, where it be exile, only counter X type of spell. Even moving up to Cryptic Command, where the mana cost is higher, yes its strong, but at 4 mana, you are really paying a higher cost.

At 2 mana, unconditional catch all is a bit OP, not saying there isn't other OP spells. Even PtE, is powerful, but at a cost of ramping opponents rather early.
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Post by Yawgmoth » 1 year ago

MashedPotato wrote:
1 year ago
Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Having two blue mana up goes a long way in keeping things from getting degenerate.
With that said, it works the other way also, the fine balancing act which has been absent in R&D and play testing.
I think conditional counter spells like Spell Snare / Pierce, even the Force of X are balanced better, all with counter but at a condition, where it be exile, only counter X type of spell. Even moving up to Cryptic Command, where the mana cost is higher, yes its strong, but at 4 mana, you are really paying a higher cost.

At 2 mana, unconditional catch all is a bit OP, not saying there isn't other OP spells. Even PtE, is powerful, but at a cost of ramping opponents rather early.
It may be OP in isolation but when you consider what decks would play it I do not think it's that problematic. It is still a 1-for-1. It doesn't put a threat on the board.

The major complaint I see on this thread is that the threats are too OP and that the solution is banning them. The alternative would be printing threats that control could use to become a legitimate archetype. I don't think you'd see decks splashing blue (like GDS) for Counterspell because of the restrictive casting cost. However, Counterspell would allow control to interact meaningfully while also advancing its own game plan.

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Post by MashedPotato » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
It may be OP in isolation but when you consider what decks would play it I do not think it's that problematic. It is still a 1-for-1. It doesn't put a threat on the board.

The major complaint I see on this thread is that the threats are too OP and that the solution is banning them. The alternative would be printing threats that control could use to become a legitimate archetype. I don't think you'd see decks splashing blue (like GDS) for Counterspell because of the restrictive casting cost. However, Counterspell would allow control to interact meaningfully while also advancing its own game plan.
Noted, didn't consider the 1 for 1 side of it.

I don't think though, that control needs more tools, playing Esper, the curve into responses is already there, the only oddity is straight counter spell at the bottom to race big mana decks. The only difficulty Control decks have I think, its against resolved planeswalkers, but that is another kettle of fish. I think UWx doesn't see enough play as it is, despite being fairly well equipped to handle most situations,
There is always a greater power

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
From my experience, as an Urza Outcome player, GDS is a tricky match up and I've still haven't found the best way to sideboard against them. If I draw more non-creature payoffs I'm usually boned, If I draw my Emrys, Sais and Urzas it's better, but I wouldn't put the match any better than 40-60 in GDS's favor. Oko might change the matchup dynamics, but I'm waiting for a potential ban so I can buy them on the cheap.

Tron is worse, way worse. The only reason I'm 4-1 against Tron is because I keep getting paired against a new Tron player and I keep drawing my 1-of maindeck Pithing Needle to buy me an extra turn or two. Oblivion Stone just wrecks the deck...
I will defer to you since I've played Urza's Outcome for only around 20 matches, most at non Comp REL. (I've played 40-50 matches previously with Whirza and 5 now with the new Simic Urza). I felt like Shadow was 50/50 at worst. The reason I felt like this is that we have so many SB "bombs" that make it tough for them. We have a lot of gas, even after siding out 2-3 Outcome. Oko and sometimes Teferi or Tezzeret. Now I know that nobody plays the latter 2 anymore, other than myself a few weeks ago, so maybe that changes things. I truly only felt like Temur Battle Rage is the card that kills us because 1/1s don't block a double strike, trample, 10/10 very well. I was only 2-3 vs. Shadow in tournaments, but I felt like that was more the result of seeing at least 15 Temur Battle Rage in those matches (1-2 every single game in 3 game matches).

I do think Tron is pretty bad though. The new Simic Urza (Team Lotus Box) deck plays 3 Damping Sphere in the SB, which the Outcome version obviously can't play. So that kind of alludes to it being a poor matchup. Karn, the Great Creator on turn 3 is really a pain and Oblivion Stone is GG. Had a Mono Blue Tron player play one on turn 4 and blow it up when it was his only out on Friday. Did it with Mono Blue Tron and 1 O Stone. Sad times were had by me and my high loyalty Oko, which turned his Expedition Map into an Elk on turn 2.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
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Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

Yawgmoth wrote:
1 year ago
Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
I'm gonna make an incredibly unlikely prediction. Tomorrow we will see an unprecedented change: functional errata, turning Oko's +1 into a -1.
It would change the economy of paper cards moving forward. It would make the market very unstable because the cards could change at any time. WotC would also have to figure out how to deal with extant copies of non-errated cards; a buyback/trade in program?
I'd argue the opposite; the point of functional errata would be to make an overpowered card weaker but still playable: after all if you're just going to nerf it to be useless you might as well just ban it. So unless a switch to errata also comes with a significant increase of metagame changes comparable to how often we get bannings, buying into top tier decks is now actually safer.

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
I'm gonna make an incredibly unlikely prediction. Tomorrow we will see an unprecedented change: functional errata, turning Oko's +1 into a -1.

Why:
1. They REALLY don't want to ban Oko, he sells packs and is the face of the set, but not doing anything clearly is not an option. Errataing him means not having to ban him
2. Oko's +1 not being a -1 is often quoted as the major issue with the card, and an admitted design mistake by RnD
3. Although Oko is only really busted in Standard, the hate for the card seems to be universal across formats
4. This errata would be incredibly minor, literally changing one symbol on a card
5. Magic Arena being pushed makes functional errata less troublesome than it was before; we've already seen "quality of life" errata for Ajani's Pridemage
6. This is a post on the internet and there will be no consequence of me being wrong whilst receiving infinite smug points if I turn out correct.
I've talked about errata to cards before and discussed how Wizards needs to move towards a "patching" model of balance. I think it's a great long-term solution to many Magic problems, but it's heavily dependent on digital products. I don't know if Oko is the card to push this shift solely based on pack/card value. Oko remains relevant in three other major Constructed formats, which will help him retain value. But I hope one day Wizards does move towards a patching model of card management. This will effectively eliminate bans from their toolbox and ensure all decks/cards can continue to exist in admittedly nerfed, or at least modified, forms.

Overall, patching would be sweet and would totally change how we think about format management and card design. I still believe this is the long-term direction of Magic as we push deeper into the 21st Century, but I doubt this isolated Oko incident is the driver that will get patching off the ground. It seems like a much more in-depth and fundamental change.
I think Oko is a prime target for the first functional errata since the change is so obvious and physically minor, together with the push for errata, That being said it would be a very fundamental change and still very unlikely.
iTaLenTZ wrote:
1 year ago
They will keep Oko legal and change the PW rule. From now on putting loyalty counters is no longer a cost but goes on the stack as part of the ability. This change would hit all 2-3 mana overpowered PW's rather than just Oko.
This is also an interesting idea, although it does require some kind of card errata with all the Walkers having colons next to their loyalty abilities. I also like this idea just as much as the patching idea, except it seems more realistic at this point in time. I've also heard about making planeswalkers "summoning sick" like creatures. These kinds of ideas are great because they address a broader issues with PWs as value generating monsters, without a premature rollout of something as radical (albeit currently not very feasible) as patching.
I've seen both of these thrown around and I don't really like either. I think the "Loyalty on resolution" change does very little whereas the "Summoning Sickness" one would be devastating and make a lot of great planeswalkers useless (biggest case in point being Jace the Mind Sculptor and his fragile 3 loyalty)
MashedPotato wrote:
1 year ago
I can see more and more why Commander as a format is picking up, as the players make more input into the format and keep it fair unlike other WOTC driven formats.
I strongly suspect Commander is secretly just as broken as other formats, but without significant tournament support like other Constructed formats, there is more incentive to play pet/cool decks than find the best/broken deck and play that. This is why isolated Modern scenes can appear quite healthy but the overall MTGO and top tournament metagame is a mess. Commander would probably be less screwed up then the major contemporary formats (Modern, Pioneer, Standard), if for no other reason than it has a bigger card pool to insulate issues. But it would still shift towards broken decks if it got too much focus and if Wizards provided too much incentive for people to solve it.

Commander will remain a format Wizards supports through products because it makes them money. They won't support it too much, however, because they need players to invest in Standard, Brawl, Arena, Limited, and shiny newer things that really fill the budget line. This will soon include Pioneer but will decreasingly include Modern as Wizards continues its shift towards Pioneer as the premier nonrotating format.
100% agree, Commander is absolutely just as broken as other formats, it's only saving grace is its fundamental kitchen-tableness and the isolated mini-metagames that comes with that. Just going from one play group to the other, I've had my decks gone from barely being able to keep up to being downright oppressive. What other formats have unofficial house rules like "No MLD" that are so common they get their own abbreviation?

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

My prediction:
Standard- Oko will get the bullet. OUAT and other perhaps less expected stuff too because when they embrass-ban they always do lots of stuff as a sort of prestidigitation.
Modern- Urza
Legacy- nothing banned, maybe unban Mindtwist or something innocuous.
Pioneer- not Nykthos, field or similar, OUAT to go this week.
maybe an extra digital best of one ban just to muddy waters and have fewer people talking about the elkmaster banning.

What I would like
All formats ban planeswalkers and the people who enjoy them.

No?
Ok how about
Standard- ban the format until answers can match threats
Still no?
Alright
Standard- seriously, I still don't care.
Pioneer- OUAT
Modern- Urza, but it does not matter in the long run- it can only be what it is- the format is less loved than Legacy, which will continue in most parts of the world other than half of the USA exactly as before, it is less novel than Pioneer, which I think will eventually replace Modern as demand dwindles for Modern. When March comes those prices are going nowhere from their current drop.
Legacy - nothing, I guess, Planeswalkers are a worry but I can't see banning W6 being that much of an improvement.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I feel that having a catchall 2 mana counter like counterspell is probably too good. Maybe |'m overrating it because control isn't great right now but wotc has been really pushing cards like -card]negate[/card] and essence scatter because they are situational
dovin's veto is another example of a pushed situational card, uncounterable counter. Anyway, I do wonder what decks would use counterspell if ever it would become reprinted to be modern legal? So far, my favorite counterspells are still spell pierce and stubborn denial... being on the play, then pierce or stub someone's turn 1 aether vial feels good. :$
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Post by Arkmer » 1 year ago

I honestly think Counterspell helps push Tron out.

At 2cmc it's always available before Tron comes online. By the time they can cast Ullamog on T4 you can have 3 lands, lose 2, untap and play another to be at 2 lands to counter their next threat, so unless they drop their 2 Ullamogs, you have a chance at being just fine. And that's with a spell you likely already want to run main board. Then you can run a few other relevant counters on top of it.

These interactions came from playing Grixis Dragons earlier this year with Silumgar's Scorn. Tron was just not a difficult match given I regularly had a hard counter on T2. It's also for this reason that I would like Counterspell to be in Modern. It's not an auto win, but it is relevant.

I wish we had a sort of reverse Negate that could only hit permanents (likely worded "non-instant, non-sorcery spell").
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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

Pioneer invitational at SCG this week-end was over-run with green decks plus some aggro. Sprinkle a few combos (hardened scale, jeskai ascendancy) Again. that's the format everyone is excited about? I'm no Pioneer expert, but from what I see, these cards look problematic: As for modern, I'd like to see one of oko, OuaT or urza go, in that preference order. Realistically, I'm sure Wizards would put OuaT first in that list, but to me oko just is a miserable design of a card. OuaT is merely a stupid design mistake but not oppressive by itself.

PS: counterspell is double-blue, so it's not always online turn-2, and only in some decks and in most only if you take a good amount of land-hurt in the first two turns.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

B&R is up: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... cement?tij

No changes in Modern. Massive bans in Standard (Oko, Veil, OUT) and more in other formats (W6 in Legacy, Oko in Brawl, Narset in Vintage). Great announcement overall and it underscores just how profoundly terrible some of this 2019 card design has been.
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Post by iTaLenTZ » 1 year ago

Almost everything I predicted. Modern is left to rot to sell packs. Absolutely cancerous

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
B&R is up: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... cement?tij

No changes in Modern. Massive bans in Standard (Oko, Veil, OUT) and more in other formats (W6 in Legacy, Oko in Brawl, Narset in Vintage). Great announcement overall and it underscores just how profoundly terrible some of this 2019 card design has been.
Yep, an overall good announcement with good decisions. Glad they went the extra step and just banned all 3 cards at once, without trying to patch things up any more. Nothing more to say about standard, time to launch that Arena client again!

W6 was too good for Legacy, it's just a matter of fact, Good decision, will also lower the price for Modern which is great.

Narset made Vintage extremely lopsided, you either had her and won or not basically.

About Modern, without any large events on the horizon, I am fine taking currently no action. We have to see more consolidated data to make a decision. I am fine with no changes (but I was fine in general, it seems like I am the only one enjoying the format).
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by witness » 1 year ago

How much better than Logic Knot is Counterspell? Against tron or other big mana, I can see it as a big upgrade, and it works through RIP, but I wouldn't expect most decks to notice the difference too much.

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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

I wish they'd ban OuaT or oko in modern, but oh well. If I'm honest, they're not as bad as in std and pioneer and GDS is doing just fine.

Let's see the pioneer announcement later.

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Post by Albegas » 1 year ago

So WotC put out an interesting article to go along with the new b&r: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2019-11-18

It goes into a lot of detail on what led up to Oko and Veil of Summer being what they were. They also acknowledge that Oko and T3feri were both mistakes and talks about what measures they plan to take to tone down 3 cmc walkers.

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Post by Arkmer » 1 year ago

Logic Knot vs Counterspell differ in their late game power more than their early game power. With Fetches and other easy ways to fill the yard enough to make a few good early counters, Logic Knot often just reads as Counterspell against most lists. When it comes to late game and you have cast 2-3 Knots, you likely aren't casting it again except as a catch for when your opponent taps low or if they're just a low land deck anyway. You likely don't have enough in your yard to fuel countering things when your opponent has 8 mana available. Counterspell on the other hand is great the 1st or the 8th time you cast it.

Some call that a problem, others do not. There are arguments for both, but I tend to lean toward it being fine in Modern. It's still a 1 for 1, people will still resolve things. You still can't have a deck that's 24 counters and some draw, it's just not plausible with things like Cavern of Souls floating around.

Today's bans look good. I hope we see some similar in Pioneer later today as well. Urza probably deserves to lose something, but I'm less concerned with Modern's bans right now.
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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

witness wrote:
1 year ago
How much better than Logic Knot is Counterspell? Against tron or other big mana, I can see it as a big upgrade, and it works through RIP, but I wouldn't expect most decks to notice the difference too much.
A second Logic Knot is ALWAYS weaker than the first. Plus, you won't always have cards in your GY to counter something on T2 or T3.

Counterspell will help most Ux midrange+ strategies. For example I'm playing 2 Stoic Rebuttals in the sideboard of my Urza Outcome, with Counterspell there's a chance of the deck shifting to a more midrange or controlling route instead of combo.

As for the Banlist announcement, what I expected pretty much, but I didn't think they'd pull the trigger on W6 in legacy. I fully expect Oko to be banned in commander as well, he's not hard to defend (or to play) and invalidates many commanders with his +1.

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Post by CurdBros » 1 year ago

Well no bans or unbans this time. Modern is definitely in a decent place right now, but a few tweaks could have helped the format in my opinion. I think Mox Opal and Simian Spirit Guide should have been gone a long time ago. I also personally think there are some cards that should be on the watch list- once upon a time and some say Urza, but I disagree with that one for now (once mox opal is gone). I also think an unban of Preordain is way overdue given the amount of green deck manipulation they are allowing into the format in Once upon a time, ancient stirrings, and oath of nissa. I guess we have to wait another month to see if they are looking into the modern meta again. To be very honest, these are all things that I think cause feel bad moments in modern or seem a bit one sided towards colorless and green decks; BUT there is no major reason for any change in modern right now like a dominate deck, turn two wins, etc so no bans or unbans seems like a totally reasonable choice at this point. What do you all think?

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Post by Albegas » 1 year ago

CurdBros wrote:
1 year ago
Well no bans or unbans this time. Modern is definitely in a decent place right now, but a few tweaks could have helped the format in my opinion. I think Mox Opal and Simian Spirit Guide should have been gone a long time ago. I also personally think there are some cards that should be on the watch list- once upon a time and some say Urza, but I disagree with that one for now (once mox opal is gone). I also think an unban of Preordain is way overdue given the amount of green deck manipulation they are allowing into the format in Once upon a time, ancient stirrings, and oath of nissa. I guess we have to wait another month to see if they are looking into the modern meta again. To be very honest, these are all things that I think cause feel bad moments in modern or seem a bit one sided towards colorless and green decks; BUT there is no major reason for any change in modern right now like a dominate deck, turn two wins, etc so no bans or unbans seems like a totally reasonable choice at this point. What do you all think?
Simic Urza's proving itself to be pretty dominant to be honest. I think the only reason it hasn't been hit is because they've been too busy fixing Standard and Pioneer to focus on Modern. The W6 ban in Legacy and the Narset ban in Vintage likely didn't involve much discussion or forethought

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
I can't emphasize enough that the community conversation must shift away from bans and towards the abject failures of design, development, and Play Design this year. I get that people want Modern (Standard, Pioneer, Legacy...) to be "fixed" and that might mean a number of bans on 2019 cards. But that cannot be the focus of our conversation. If it is, it is easier for Wizards to hide the fundamental design-level issues under a veneer of continued bans. It is also easy for them to write articles and release statements about increased bannings, rather than acknowledge these foundational design issues they are having across sets and formats. We need more people Tweeting at Wizards, posting to Reddit, writing articles, discussing in forums/Twitch, etc. about the design/development issues. Not bans. A louder outcry about design issues will lead to Wizards acknowledgement of the issue and potential change at the Play Design level.

Does this mean we don't need bans? Probably not. A number of formats do need bans because Wizards has %$#% up so badly throughout this year. But that topic must always be secondary to the design/development issues. Arguments should be phrased like "Wizards messed up in these ways. Short-term fix may include bans A, B, and C. But more importantly, we need short- to long-term solutions in the design/development areas to include X, Y, and Z." Don't let Wizards get off the hook for this disastrous policy of pushed threats and diluted answers because some survey once told them that players don't like their proactive stuff answered on the cheap. Make sure we know both that their mistakes must be banned AND (more importantly) they need to revise a number of processes to prevent these mistakes from happening in the future.
In the past, Wizards has taken the idea of bans being needed to be an admission of their own flawed process. Given just how many bans have been needed in the past couple years though, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps Wizards is shifting their opinions of just how many bans they think the players will tolerate.

Being in game dev professionally myself, I know this, and I'm certain Wizards knows this. Players will tell you what's wrong, and they will tell you why they think it's wrong. But, you cannot trust what players say as to why. Any half decent game dev would be able to translate players articulating a desire for bannings into what they're actually after, which is what you're mentioning. A fix to the process so that bannings not only aren't needed, but so that the format becomes more fun.

They haven't said much to the players yet, but Wizards is a fairly self aware company. I'm pretty sure they already realize how badly they've messed up.

Edit: They've since posted an article that makes a minor admission of flaws in their process, but also implies that we've got several more sets worth of these problems before any corrective measures can be taken.
Tomatotime wrote:
1 year ago
A gripe I personally have with this is that it is well known that Wotc considers Reddit it's centralized discussion platform, unfortunately Reddit is literally designed to be an echo chamber, the platform does not actually support debates with unpopular opinions nor does it support long form discussions due to the rotating nature of Reddit (again, a website design feature). Twitter also does not make this much better considering the character limit makes it very difficult for people to get their point accross.
An issue I see here, is that the Magic community seems to be at an all time high in terms of fragmentation. Decks are primarily discussed on individual discord channels where it's hard to just read a few posts to catch up. Reddit is broken up, and as you said, an echo chamber. Forums are now split between multiple forums, each with much lower traffic than any individual one used to be. Articles are on many websites, but there's no easy way to keep track of it all.

There's just no longer a centralized place to discuss anything, and that makes it much harder for WotC to message, and for players to discuss things. Even deck innovation is way down, largely due to the fragmented communities which empathize tuning existing decks rather than discuss anything new.
Last edited by Aazadan 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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