[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
For some relevant context, I played GDS last night, I had 7 free Creeping Chills thrown at me over the span of 2 games. and lost to runner, runner Titans after Thoughtseizing two of them and aggressively Thought-Scouring/Snap-Scouring three Valakuts and two Pacts. This game is stupid.
Well, for what it's worth then, if that's relevant context, I am a combined 7-2-1 in the last 3 FNMs with Grixis Control with Drown in the Loch and Into the Story, Both of my losses are 1-2s against the same Tron opponent and have been extremely close games. The draw was due to slow play, not on my part though. I have beaten Amulet Titan twice in the process, Infect twice, Burn once, Skelemental balls once, and can't remember the other win, it was not a home brew though. Soooo what does that say? Not much, but anecdotally, my grixis control is doing the thing, beating multiple titans, Okos, and all sorts of crazy T2-3 aggro decks. So what? For me this game is absolutely not stupid and I am having a ton of fun.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
After the 4 Chills game 1, Game 2 I was literally attacking for lethal with a Shadow and an Angler, after getting rid of his only blocker when he was at 3 life (I was at 7 life myself). At instant speed, he cycled the red cycle land to dredge and hit Narcomiba, Chill, Stinkweed Imp. Cycled his second land, hit two more Chills to kill me, during combat, as I was attacking for lethal, and holding Stubborn Denial in hand.

In the Titanshift match, he was also dead on board, but apparently I missed that his "flood" land drops were all fetches, so in response to my Collective Brutality to gain/drain for lethal after attacking him to 2, he fetch, fetch, fetch, deal 9 to me and kill me (from 8). Honestly, after scouring him, he may not have even had the 3 mountains to get anyway, but I was so over it that I did not care and just conceded on the spot as it is.

Just reminds me that the more I play in paper, the more I hate this game. Because these losses don't just sting, they waste my time. I have no financial need to sell all my paper cards and just play online, but my motivation to do so for the sake of my sanity grows every time I have the %$#% show experiences like this in paper.

On the plus side, I got in two awesome games of Commander after dropping Modern; and those were tons of fun. Looks like there is no end in sight for the circus that is this format though. Will probably still jam Modern online once in a while, and try to get in Commander games when I can, but there's just zero motivation to play this format anymore. Which is truly a shame.
Seems like you should have known what fetches for your Titanshift opponent represent, or that the Dredge opponent could dredge at instant speed. You could become a better player, by noticing those lines instead of bashing Modern and/or saying that it sucks. Really don't get it. Also seems that those two matches were some close/thrilling games of magic, which if we saw on a GP stream we would be highly entertained. Also, GDS is a super difficult deck to play with(I have enough experience with the deck to say this). There is a strong case to be made that had you gone back in time, you could change something to your life total, you could win some game of those.

When I lose games with GDS, I really try to think how could I win each time, so that I can be better next time. Now, I am not saying, those games were 100% winnable, but they might be. And you should also know what your opponent's deck represented at the time, which is on you.
Dredge was actually kind of interesting and exciting, until I realized that I lost due to things completely outside my control when they had every reason to lose. It was also the first match of the night and set the awful tone. Many players also fed up with Modern decided to play Pioneer as well, so the pool was much smaller, and all filled with miserable decks (somehow I managed to dodge the 6 or so Urza players).

I already hate Titanshift with all my core anyway, because I feel it is a mindless linear deck that does nothing and then wins. Which it did. Whether I missed it or not is irrelevant, as he could have done this at any time, at instant speed, to kill me. I was killing him as fast as I possibly could, and no game action I could have taken would have reversed the outcome, unless I could gain life at instant speed, or if I chose to deploy an Angler on instead of holding up Denial and Stroke on my 3rd turn (into his 4th), which successfully tagged a Breach on my end step and a Titan his turn. After that, it was a linear race. A boring, mindless, linear race. I attacked him turn after turn, he drew and played lands.

Glad you and others are having fun at your local stores. Just know that you do not represent everyone or their experiences. And the frustration of losing to things 100% out of my control (or at least difficult or impossible to interact with, like Creeping Chill and land drops) makes me question why I play this format, or hell, this game at all.
Last edited by cfusionpm 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Just know that you do not represent everyone or their experiences.
But neither do you :)
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Just know that you do not represent everyone or their experiences.
But neither do you :)
Never said I did. Just sharing my experiences. Would appreciate people not telling me how and why my experiences are wrong. Especially when Modern attendance has been cut in half at my store and those who are playing are almost all complaining.

Be happy that isn't happening to you.

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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
After the 4 Chills game 1, Game 2 I was literally attacking for lethal with a Shadow and an Angler, after getting rid of his only blocker when he was at 3 life (I was at 7 life myself). At instant speed, he cycled the red cycle land to dredge and hit Narcomiba, Chill, Stinkweed Imp. Cycled his second land, hit two more Chills to kill me, during combat, as I was attacking for lethal, and holding Stubborn Denial in hand.

In the Titanshift match, he was also dead on board, but apparently I missed that his "flood" land drops were all fetches, so in response to my Collective Brutality to gain/drain for lethal after attacking him to 2, he fetch, fetch, fetch, deal 9 to me and kill me (from 8). Honestly, after scouring him, he may not have even had the 3 mountains to get anyway, but I was so over it that I did not care and just conceded on the spot as it is.

Just reminds me that the more I play in paper, the more I hate this game. Because these losses don't just sting, they waste my time. I have no financial need to sell all my paper cards and just play online, but my motivation to do so for the sake of my sanity grows every time I have the %$#% show experiences like this in paper.

On the plus side, I got in two awesome games of Commander after dropping Modern; and those were tons of fun. Looks like there is no end in sight for the circus that is this format though. Will probably still jam Modern online once in a while, and try to get in Commander games when I can, but there's just zero motivation to play this format anymore. Which is truly a shame.
Seems like you should have known what fetches for your Titanshift opponent represent, or that the Dredge opponent could dredge at instant speed. You could become a better player, by noticing those lines instead of bashing Modern and/or saying that it sucks. Really don't get it. Also seems that those two matches were some close/thrilling games of magic, which if we saw on a GP stream we would be highly entertained. Also, GDS is a super difficult deck to play with(I have enough experience with the deck to say this). There is a strong case to be made that had you gone back in time, you could change something to your life total, you could win some game of those.

When I lose games with GDS, I really try to think how could I win each time, so that I can be better next time. Now, I am not saying, those games were 100% winnable, but they might be. And you should also know what your opponent's deck represented at the time, which is on you.
He freely admitted himself he missed the fetchlands vs titanshift.

But the dredge case has absolutely nothing to do with becoming a better player or noticing lines. There is no way in the world anyone is going to 'notice a line' where someone lucks out by dredging 3 creeping chills off 2 cycles (8 cards), it's simply not something you can play around even if you predict an account for the 2 potential dredges from cycle lands, no way to stop activated abilities in GDS. You simply can't strategize against random 18 point life swings.

It is bad beats, but attributing something like this to cfusionpm needing to a better player is simply not logical.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Just know that you do not represent everyone or their experiences.
But neither do you :)
Never said I did. Just sharing my experiences. Would appreciate people not telling me how and why my experiences are wrong. Especially when Modern attendance has been cut in half at my store and those who are playing are almost all complaining.

Be happy that isn't happening to you.
referring to bolded part. That has me curious. May I ask what brought about that kind of environment where almost everyone is complaining. Are you people under constant stress or something?

over here, when we sit down people are in a jolly good mood to play to test out our modern decks. We would start around playing around 2 or 3 in the afternoon, then go on until the sun went down at around 6 pm. I rarely hear people complaining. Well, I would sometimes "complain" about being dazed from fatigue and need for a glass of cold water. hehe ;)
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
But neither do you :)
Never said I did. Just sharing my experiences. Would appreciate people not telling me how and why my experiences are wrong. Especially when Modern attendance has been cut in half at my store and those who are playing are almost all complaining.

Be happy that isn't happening to you.
referring to bolded part. That has me curious. May I ask what brought about that kind of environment where almost everyone is complaining. Are you people under constant stress or something?
Let's just say that most of my friends there, and the people that I generally hang out with, very much enjoy playing interactive BGx and Uxx decks. :?

We have no disillusionment about the state of the top of the format and are just real about the situation. We also always bring backup Commander decks for the inevitable dropping. Last night one was on UB Fae and happily joined me after round 3 for EDH.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

Not going to reply to all of this because I feel like I've made my stance known on most of the issues in your post. If there's something you/anyone else think I need to address further, that isn't addressed directly/indirectly below, feel free to let me know.
Tomatotime wrote:
1 year ago
ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Bans alienate players, waste money, and create instability.
So did Eldrazi winter and Hogaak summer, to say nothing of the major commercial investments (3rd party tournaments and events) that these metagames threatened.
I agree Eldrazi Winter and Hogaak Summer threaten Modern. But those are actually areas where we both agree bans were warranted. I called for bans in both of those periods, first after the horrific GP weekend in March 2016, and then actually for an emergency ban prior to the end-of-August GP. Those periods of time are great examples of when bans are necessary and when Wizards must act quickly.

But those periods are very different from the sort of "scorched earth" ban policy you seem to be suggesting, where we ban stuff like Bridge and Tower and Moon and other alleged feels-bad cards just to try and curate the perfect format to a subset of players. That policy is significantly more alienating than leaving those cards around. Modern remains the most popular format by all publicly available metrics we have. Yes, there are a tangle of variables which contribute to this, but Modern is still format number one. Given this, we shouldn't support a scorched earth ban policy that would have uncertain impacts on format popularity. Ban all the Hogaaks and Eyes we need but leave the other stuff alone unless it's violating clearly established metagame benchmarks. Especially if the ban metric is "fun" or something like that. As I've noted with CFP in the past, there is little difference between getting locked down under Bridge and T3feri, where there are proactive lock pieces which prevent you from playing the game, and having 2 cards in hand against a Ux control player with 7 in their hand and an active JTMS. I think we would all agree the latter scenario "feels" more interactive, but both of those scenarios are statistically and deterministically game-over. We would not want a world where Wizards is banning that latter scenario just because some players think it's unfun.
ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
Wizards can't ban cards because one group loudly posts in Reddit threads about it. We need to remember that the vocal online commentary community is just a tiny portion of the Magic playing world.
Fine, but WotC's lack of comprehensive data/feedback collection from larger groups to satisfy you is WotC's fault, not the players, the players shouldn't have to live with a compromised format because WotC doesn't do technology.
Again, the format is significantly more compromised if Wizards is just arbitrarily banning unfun things. ANYTHING can be unfun to any group of players. We've seen literally dozens of cards grouped in the unfun category on this forum and MTGS alone, to say nothing of Reddit, Twitch, Twitter, and article content spheres. Wizards should never use these arbitrary and subjective metrics to ban cards and hurt player investment in a supposed non-rotating format. There are so many powerful Modern strategies which are readily described as unfun by many players. This includes Jund and UW Control, both of which have received ban suggestions for years, to say nothing of ban mania at recent additions to these fair decks. There's zero format confidence in a format where Wizards just swings the ban hammer at something pros/players have decided is unfun in that particular 3-4 month period.

Re: fixing cards vs. fixing bans
I know people are dissatisfied with the state of Modern. First, I'm going to again remind people that this is not a Modern problem. This is a Magic problem. We're in yet another fundamentally broken Standard (6 Food decks in the MC T8?? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/my ... -decklists) after a recent ban. We're going to be at 12+ bans in Standard in a period of 2-3 years where Modern saw just 6. That's profoundly %$#% on so many levels. Pioneer is going to have the same issues, just as Brawl has already seen some of those issues and a resultant ban. It's easy to identify Modern as the broken format where two ships pass in the night, but that is just a symptom of a problem that is just as devastating in Standard as in Modern.

When Wizards continues to ban its way out of this problem, it creates the illusion that formats and card designs are still okay. They're really not. Bans have led to more bans because bad card design is begetting more bad card design. If the community keeps clamoring for bans, Wizards can trick itself into thinking that's the solution to format ills. We know it's not. The solution is to dig deep in the designer toolbox and create some legitimate answers to diversified threats. Every time Wizards bans its way out of problems, it can defer generic answers to a later set.

CFP brought up some green cards, namely Trophy, Veil, and OUT as examples of Wizards printing such cards. That's not true at all. Trophy is a solid answer but still doesn't even trade one-for-one in a world where many of the threats are innately two-for-oneing just by hitting the battlefield. Veil isn't an answer at all. It's an answer to an answer that benefits unfair decks more than fair ones. Same with OUT hitting proactive cards and not reactive ones. Thankfully, there are many indications to suggest Wizards has realized this green mechanical hegemony is a problem and I think they'll fix it going forward. But that still might not lead to better generic answers unless that's the issue the community focuses on. Not more bans.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
CFP brought up some green cards, namely Trophy, Veil, and OUT as examples of Wizards printing such cards. That's not true at all. Trophy is a solid answer but still doesn't even trade one-for-one in a world where many of the threats are innately two-for-oneing just by hitting the battlefield. Veil isn't an answer at all. It's an answer to an answer that benefits unfair decks more than fair ones. Same with OUT hitting proactive cards and not reactive ones. Thankfully, there are many indications to suggest Wizards has realized this green mechanical hegemony is a problem and I think they'll fix it going forward. But that still might not lead to better generic answers unless that's the issue the community focuses on. Not more bans.
I mentioned them because I have long since held the belief that a cheaper mana cost and meaningless (or relatively meaningless) downside is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better design philosophy than simply making stuff cost more. And the response was directly to the idea that we can't have Counterspell, because it hits everything. Well, Trophy hits everything (in fact more than Counterspell does, since it can hit lands) and it only costs 2 mana because of its 'downside.' This same philosophy applies to OUAT, which is a free Ancient Stirrings effect. And while Veil isn't as universal as "everything" or "creatures and lands," it is effectively "counter target spell, draw a card" for 1 mana.

Much of my stance on this is based on the ludicrous double standard of not only WOTC allowing these to exist, but printing and pushing them while any and all blue cards that do similar things are either banned or way too expensive. It's a fundamental disagreement on design philosophy that I personally can't stand. And when combined with their repeated breaking of multiple formats, you can probably see why I have absolutely zero faith in this company to do the right thing, especially for formats like Modern.

Why is it that green/black spells seem to always be cheaper with (situationally irrelevant) downside, and blue spells are all more expensive with (situationally irrelevant) upside? (like Absorb and Ionize? compared to Assassin's Trophy. Or even Abrupt Decay vs Counterflux?)

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

I for one think modern is awesome because of Tron lands and Karn :)
But I recognise a lot of the gripes and criticism people have.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Simto wrote:
1 year ago
I for one think modern is awesome because of Tron lands and Karn :)
But I recognise a lot of the gripes and criticism people have.
I agree that if you enjoy a favorite pet deck and can play it consistently, feelings of the format can be drastically improved.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Simto wrote:
1 year ago
I for one think modern is awesome because of Tron lands and Karn :)
But I recognise a lot of the gripes and criticism people have.
I agree that if you enjoy a favorite pet deck and can play it consistently, feelings of the format can be drastically improved.
I have a buddy that started enjoying modern so much more when he found a deck he really enjoyed in merfolk and did really well with it. Definitely not t1 but he loves it

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
Simto wrote:
1 year ago
I for one think modern is awesome because of Tron lands and Karn :)
But I recognise a lot of the gripes and criticism people have.
I agree that if you enjoy a favorite pet deck and can play it consistently, feelings of the format can be drastically improved.
I have a buddy that started enjoying modern so much more when he found a deck he really enjoyed in merfolk and did really well with it. Definitely not t1 but he loves it
GDS is the closest I have felt with that, but I still don't particularly like many aspects of it. Like the discard priority vs reactionary plan, or the fact that it relies almost entirely on a single creature attacking in order to win. Although, at least I can get across the finish line with a deck like that. As opposed to the more enjoyable decks I used to play (like Blue Moon and Delver variants), which have become so far outclassed that it's not even fun to sleeve them up anymore.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

I will say in my defense though, that I play tron without Karn Liberated/ugin and I play Eldrazi tron without chalice too, so I think I have the strong, but not broken versions of them (so far hehe)
There's many decks I really enjoy playing like B/G or Sultai midrange, Hardened Scales and Esper or Grixis Control, but I had to just pick one because I can't pump so much money into it and I had the most Tron and Eldrazi cards when I decided to make the jump to modern.

People usually sigh when I drop a tron land turn 1, but afterwards when they realise it's not a full powered version they relax and we usually have a fun match :)

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago

I agree that if you enjoy a favorite pet deck and can play it consistently, feelings of the format can be drastically improved.
I have a buddy that started enjoying modern so much more when he found a deck he really enjoyed in merfolk and did really well with it. Definitely not t1 but he loves it
GDS is the closest I have felt with that, but I still don't particularly like many aspects of it. Like the discard priority vs reactionary plan, or the fact that it relies almost entirely on a single creature attacking in order to win. Although, at least I can get across the finish line with a deck like that. As opposed to the more enjoyable decks I used to play (like Blue Moon and Delver variants), which have become so far outclassed that it's not even fun to sleeve them up anymore.
I kind of gave up on non shadow grixis decks when GDS started becoming really good in early 2017. I used to love Grixis control but it felt awful even before Shadow became good.

I have a buddy that top 8d an MCQ with UR breach but other than that blue moon variants ahve certainly fallen off past 2 years or so

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I kind of gave up on non shadow grixis decks when GDS started becoming really good in early 2017. I used to love Grixis control but it felt awful even before Shadow became good.
Grixis is my #1 favorite color combination (with Esper being #2). While I would much rather be playing any other number of cards in this color combo, GDS is pretty much the best thing I can be doing. Plus, the deck looks gorgeous, as I've been building it up myself since 2017 with foils and signed cards (as linked on the previous page, the only thing not foil/signed/promo are Denials, Wraiths, and Baubles in main, and Spheres and Engineers in the side). Honestly, I probably get more enjoyment out of just looking at the deck than I do playing. It's a spectacular sight that I really love. :love: :crazy:
I have a buddy that top 8d an MCQ with UR breach but other than that blue moon variants ahve certainly fallen off past 2 years or so
My three main issues with UR Breach are 1) Having the pieces, and mana, on time 2) Living long enough with the poor tools UR has available in order to Breach at all, and 3) When attacking with a flying 15/15, Annihilator 6 isn't enough to win the game. I don't even feel comfortable selling my Emmys (2 pre-release foils, 2 GP foils), because they continue to dwindle in value.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I kind of gave up on non shadow grixis decks when GDS started becoming really good in early 2017. I used to love Grixis control but it felt awful even before Shadow became good.
Grixis is my #1 favorite color combination (with Esper being #2). While I would much rather be playing any other number of cards in this color combo, GDS is pretty much the best thing I can be doing. Plus, the deck looks gorgeous, as I've been building it up myself since 2017 with foils and signed cards (as linked on the previous page, the only thing not foil/signed/promo are Denials, Wraiths, and Baubles in main, and Spheres and Engineers in the side). Honestly, I probably get more enjoyment out of just looking at the deck than I do playing. It's a spectacular sight that I really love. :love: :crazy:
I have a buddy that top 8d an MCQ with UR breach but other than that blue moon variants ahve certainly fallen off past 2 years or so
My three main issues with UR Breach are 1) Having the pieces, and mana, on time 2) Living long enough with the poor tools UR has available in order to Breach at all, and 3) When attacking with a flying 15/15, Annihilator 6 isn't enough to win the game. I don't even feel comfortable selling my Emmys (2 pre-release foils, 2 GP foils), because they continue to dwindle in value.
I always tell myself I'm gonna try and foil Grixis Shadow out I just haven't gone too far in the process yet.
I've seen a fair share when breaching an Emrakul just isn't enough. Also it's a turn slower than twin but just feels a lot worse than twin was, maybe because people don't play around breach emrakul as much as they did with twin, probably because they don't need to

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I always tell myself I'm gonna try and foil Grixis Shadow out I just haven't gone too far in the process yet.
I've seen a fair share when breaching an Emrakul just isn't enough. Also it's a turn slower than twin but just feels a lot worse than twin was, maybe because people don't play around breach emrakul as much as they did with twin, probably because they don't need to
It's one of the main reasons I never took the steps for Wraiths, Baubles, and Denials. They're unreasonably expensive, compared to pennies on the dollar for regular copies, and really don't slot into anything else (or at least nothing I want to/can play, like Baubles into Urza). Wraith may be doable, since it was reprinted in Masters 25, but the others are still a big fat MEH. I would have tried to go foils for Shadows and TS, but I got them signed at GP Vegas 2017 anyway (along with the Noah Bradley stuff), so never felt the need to upgrade. I did however swap my signed regular non-foil Fatal Pushes for the FNM promo, because I liked the art better, and Deschamp's signature is just OK.

Agree that people don't play around breach, but I still need all 3 of those issues listed previously to go my way!

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I always tell myself I'm gonna try and foil Grixis Shadow out I just haven't gone too far in the process yet.
I've seen a fair share when breaching an Emrakul just isn't enough. Also it's a turn slower than twin but just feels a lot worse than twin was, maybe because people don't play around breach emrakul as much as they did with twin, probably because they don't need to
It's one of the main reasons I never took the steps for Wraiths, Baubles, and Denials. They're unreasonably expensive, compared to pennies on the dollar for regular copies, and really don't slot into anything else (or at least nothing I want to/can play, like Baubles into Urza). Wraith may be doable, since it was reprinted in Masters 25, but the others are still a big fat MEH. I would have tried to go foils for Shadows and TS, but I got them signed at GP Vegas 2017 anyway (along with the Noah Bradley stuff), so never felt the need to upgrade. I did however swap my signed regular non-foil Fatal Pushes for the FNM promo, because I liked the art better, and Deschamp's signature is just OK.

Agree that people don't play around breach, but I still need all 3 of those issues listed previously to go my way!
I think my thoughtseize|ths and Liliana of the veil|INN are the only cards that I own that are signed but t'll be hard to justify upgrading them, even without looking at the prices. I got a pretty good deal on my fnm promo pushes though as well, I think I traded a set of fnm promo farseek and pack non foil pushes (not signed).

I think that UW(x) she;;s just have better options to them now that pure UR decks, especially since UR hasn't had twin in years. A reason why I've never played UW much is because I'm not good at that kind of control game and could never be bothered to learn it well enough

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

After jamming several matches with some random janky UB Delver/Shadow deck, I think I need to just sell my paper cards (or at lease shelve them) and just play online. As much as I enjoy the paper aspect of this game, the ability to simply right click --> concede and go immediately into another match does wonders for the sanity. Nothing feels worse than driving 35 minutes through traffic to 0-2 your first round with nearly 40 minutes left on the clock to sit and twiddle your thumbs; wondering why you bother doing this. When that is further compounded by miserable or frustrating match after miserable or frustrating match, the real question sinks in: Why do I come here?

Then I go jump online, and happily play match after match for hours on end; enjoying my 3-day weekend away from teaching, while baby naps quietly in the other room. Sucks to lose the face to face chatter and seeing friends and the post-drop Commander, but I also don't feel like I'm simply wasting the precious little time I do have. Maybe rumors of WOTC are right, and the only way Modern survives is through MTGO, not paper. The play experience as far as time wasted vs time played, as well as the ability to leave and start a match at any time really bode well for a format defined by mostly viciously fast and high power gameplay, with little meaningful counterplay besides racing back.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
referring to bolded part. That has me curious. May I ask what brought about that kind of environment where almost everyone is complaining. Are you people under constant stress or something?

over here, when we sit down people are in a jolly good mood to play to test out our modern decks. We would start around playing around 2 or 3 in the afternoon, then go on until the sun went down at around 6 pm. I rarely hear people complaining. Well, I would sometimes "complain" about being dazed from fatigue and need for a glass of cold water. hehe ;)
My son's mom is filipina and I've visited the Philippines 4 times now. It's just a different mentality over there (in my humble opinion). I noticed this right away, after playing in many tournaments. I played Hogaak during the height of its destruction. Despite card availability issues there, not a single opponent that I had was salty at all. When I play this back in the U.S., I feel like a %$#% leper (the scourge of society). My opponents were all super gracious and it made me think. I am working on this myself and have made some really good strides, but I am not quite where I want to be with sportsmanship.

I'm really sorry to anyone I offend with my generalizations, but people just seemed much happier when I visited the Philippines. There's a difference between looking at what you have vs. what you don't have. To clarify, where I live, (myself included) we focus on the bad. They don't.
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
My three main issues with UR Breach are 1) Having the pieces, and mana, on time 2) Living long enough with the poor tools UR has available in order to Breach at all, and 3) When attacking with a flying 15/15, Annihilator 6 isn't enough to win the game. I don't even feel comfortable selling my Emmys (2 pre-release foils, 2 GP foils), because they continue to dwindle in value.
As a card %$#%$#, I have to clarify this. The Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn "GP foils" are not GP foils. They are RPTQ foils. They were given out at Regional Pro Tour Qualifiers to all participants, who qualified for it by winning a PPTQ - Preliminary Pro Tour Qualifier. Yes, it's a terrible system, but all of the RPTQ Promos that I own were proudly gotten at those tournaments, even though I'm so tempted to buy some more (I only have 1 ScM). I have 2 of them myself. Actually more importantly as an Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn card collector (it's my favorite creature), I know there is no GP foil version.

*On another note, I don't think anyone should point out misplays with a condescending tone. It looks like cfusionpm wouldn't have won that match vs. Titanshift even with perfect play from what I read. I have played this matchup many times and it usually ends on turn 3 with a large Shadow being Temur Battle Raged. That's the way that Shadow wins; they win before 6 mana comes around. I think I've cast 3 Titans in over 10 matches vs. Grixis Shadow lifetime. I personally think that it's a terrible matchup, but my friend who also runs Titanshift has seen the other side of variance and has CRUUUUSHED G Shadow. It mostly depends on how you draw, as long as you have a good strategy and know what wins in the matchup and what doesn't. Disruption is usually wanted to a minimum, with a super quick clock. Durdle vs. Titanshift and you DON'T win, sorry. I'm not saying that you have to win on turn 3 all the time, but turn 4 with 1 disruption spell or turn 5 with 2 disruption spells. You don't want to let them get past turn 5 unless they are mana screwed/flooded.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by stubb » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote:
1 year ago
I agree that if you enjoy a favorite pet deck and can play it consistently, feelings of the format can be drastically improved.
I have a buddy that started enjoying modern so much more when he found a deck he really enjoyed in merfolk and did really well with it. Definitely not t1 but he loves it
All the people I know who actually enjoy Modern have a deck they love, and one they play through thick and thin. For me, it's been RUG Delver. For another pal, it's been 4c Saheeli. Two more are on Jund and Titan Shift. The people I know who come and go on the format come and go from best deck to best deck.

Of course, I'm not sure which causes the other. Maybe others don't enjoy the format because they can't find a deck they enjoy, or maybe they can't find a deck they enjoy because they don't enjoy the format.

Either way, the fun tier is where it's at. It's been that way in Legacy for a long time, where people play their pet decks for the most part, and I think Modern is going to trend that way over the next few years as Pioneer takes some of the competitive heat off Modern and they're able to craft a nonrotating format with lowercase m modern card design. And Modern Horizons sets can be printed to deal with Modern problems.

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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Vs Dredge, you can disrupt their neonate or use denial their reunion, then denial their flashback spell, use a spot removal on one of their creatures, then try to kill them with TBR.
I'm not sure how you can disrupt a neonate, unless you mean discarding it before they get to cast it. so that means being on the play with at least 3 pieces of disruption (Thoughtseize and 2 denials), a piece of removal or 2, multiple ways to get your life low enough (fetch + shock 3 times + 1 thoughtseize isn't enough), a Death's Shadow and a temur battle rage.

So just win the die roll and have the perfect 1st 10 cards?

Like yes, understand that you're trying to demonstrate that Modern has interactive nuances even against the most uninteractive decks. But using perfect hand examples isn't helping your case at all even though cfusionpm's outspoken disdain for Modern is a bit extreme.

I also don't understand the continued correlating of cfusionpm's perceived playskill vs his results and enjoyment of Modern. Even if you don't intend it that way, continuous reference of someone's playskill just makes you look like you are trying to be condescending. Like the dude even admitted his own misplay against titanshift and you're dredging up some months or years old example from MTGS. Implying someone isn't enjoying Modern because they're making misplays is so incredibly reductive.

Playskill aside, winning or losing is only serving to amplify or lessen the impact of unsatisfying gameplay. I could have a 100% win rate against decks like lantern control, titanshift or dredge but i would still hate playing against these decks because the gameplay is so freaking mind-numbing.

My stand is somewhere in the middle, I think Modern has a decent amount of interactive gameplay, and while the 'battle of sideboards' gameplay has lessened to a degree, the continued existence of certain decks that require 'perfect 1st 10 cards' still leaves a sour taste.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

True-Name Nemesis wrote:
1 year ago
winning or losing is only serving to amplify or lessen the impact of unsatisfying gameplay. I could have a 100% win rate against decks like lantern control, titanshift or dredge but i would still hate playing against these decks because the gameplay is so freaking mind-numbing.

...

the continued existence of certain decks that require 'perfect 1st 10 cards' still leaves a sour taste.
Bingo.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

I again want to emphasize this is a Magic problem, one approaching a significant crisis, not just a Modern problem. It's so bad that historically tight-lipped Aaron Forsythe is actively discussing increased bannings on Twitter. He's literally polling the audience about this, likely because R&D is increasingly frustrated with formats and struggling to manage rapidly evolving metagames.



Forsythe attributes this to information exchange and iteration (i.e. many tournaments). It is imperative that we, as a community, do not allow this redirection. The problem is not more information. This gets back to the ridiculous decision to restrict MTGO data in an era where there is endless data. MTGO data restrictions have done basically nothing to stop formats from getting solved. The post-Field Standard got solved in less than a month. More MTGO data would not have prevented that but might have helped players adapt to a changing metagame. Similarly, more tournaments and iteration isn't the problem either. There have been strings of Modern metagames with no emergent, broken deck despite endless MTGO iteration.

This is because the real problem is at the Play Design and Design/Development level. The new cards are creating problems. Standard is at 11 bans currently with 1-2 more on the horizon. There should be no clearer red flag than this. Green is dominant across both Modern and Standard as a direct result of these bad design/dev decisions, and every time the community clamors for bans, it pushes R&D to put on band-aids instead of pushing for the real solution. Card design needs to change to encourage interaction and generic answers, the cards that make Magic fun and distinct from slugfests like Hearthstone. This disastrous change in design philosophy has directly contributed to instability across all contemporary Magic formats. Pioneer will be next if this is not solved, and the long-term health of the game for players who enjoy the kind of old-school Magic counterplay we all know and love is imperiled.

I implore people to stop framing this as an issue of bans, formats, specific metagames, etc. This is a design-level issue which the community needs to speak out against.
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