Lord Seth wrote: ↑
1 year ago
cfusionpm wrote: ↑
1 year ago
Or are you just going to continue selling us some crap about how this deck is "fine;" just like people did with Eldrazi,
I don't recall anyone saying that about Eldrazi during Eldrazi Winter. Well, I think bocephus (back when he posted on MTG Salvation) might have, but he often seemed to be contrarian for its own sake.
just like people did with Phoenix,
just like some even did with Hogaak?
Who was claiming that with Hogaak? Maybe some were at first but it didn't take too long for it to be obvious how problematic he actually was.
And contrariwise, I remember when people were screaming about how Humans and EldraziTron were broken and something from those decks needed to go.
1. You just listed one who did, and did so very vocally over the entirety of Eldrazi Winter. There were small pockets of people saying "yeah, me too" who were basing their experiences on their local meta and ignoring Modern as a whole.
2. Phoenix was not OK, or rather Looting was not OK, and Looting was the main contributing factor to Phoenix putting up competitive dominance numbers that rivaled both Pod and DRS Jund, and overshadowed every aspect of Twin in every category (which was also banned for competitive dominance).
3. "Just adapt" and "Play more GY hate" was a common response I saw throughout early Hogaak dominance. While the overall consensus was that it was not OK eventually, I believe I remember a number of people saying it was fine after losing Bridge. And in fact, I was openly mocked for something like 2 pages for even suggesting that alternate builds post-Bridge were still incredibly powerful.
4. Good thing I was not one of them! While I hate both of those decks because they insult everything I stand for and the core of my being (such as making all your spells able to attack and the fact that Eldrazi gets to survive and thrive at all), but I don't believe ever calling for either of them to be banned. I think I may have once said something along the lines of "If something is banned, E-Tron may become the next best thing and may become a problem," but that's a very different stance (that ended up being totally wrong). Though, ironically, was the same comment I made about Urza with regards to a Hogaak/Phoenix ban.
robertleva wrote: ↑
1 year ago
Threads like the Splinter Twin gauntlet probably aren't helping our cause, but as someone said earlier I think the real problem is the immovable opinions. Compelling discourse should occasionally change someone's mind, but it never happens. Maybe that is a product of how polarized and tribal our society has become. We have become conditioned into turning every topic into a all or nothing, life or death is on the line type of issue.
As if somehow changing your opinion on something small like MTG is some kind of "slippery slope" that might lead to thoughts outside of the approved group think model that person has been caste into. We can't have that now can we?!
I would be happy to change my opinion on things, so long as people provide compelling arguments, logically sound evidence, and enough support to justify their opinions. The problem specifically with Splinter Twin is that nearly every single argument and piece of evidence to support its initial ban or continued ban has pretty much been debunked in every possible way. There is no leg to stand on and there is nothing that has been produced to justify it whatsoever, outside of "this guy at WOTC doesn't like it." Which, while that may be true, is a horrible, arbitrary, and ultimately useless piece of justification.
Similarly, there's a lot of "I told you so," like when AV was unbanned and did nothing, like when Jace and BBE were unbanned and did little to nothing (or in Jace's case, nothing without MASSIVE help from LOTS of other cards), or like when Stoneforge was unbanned and has so far done nothing. All of us that have said for a very long time that all of these were OK are 100% justified. Even Sword of the Meek was fine until Urza, and now the best builds don't even play it. GGT was fine for a year and a half
until WOTC broke it with 3 new cards (2 enablers and a really really good payoff). Turns out a lot of stuff on that banned list is probably fine. Mostly because WOTC breaks the format into pieces every few months with new cards that are all more powerful and more broken than a lot of the stuff that is or was on the banned list.