[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Wraithpk
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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago
Phoenix would be probably interested. Good enough to light splash green, go turn 1 this, find a phoenix and mb have another one, gut shot, looting diacard two phoenixs. Izzet would certainly look scary as hell. I know it looks silly, but its not. The normal casting mode makes for a perfectly fine card also and its an instant. One breeding pool and could grab things like titi, drakes, phoenix, etc
I've got some news for ya, George, lol
Modern
ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
uwg Bant Stoneblade uwg
gbr Jund gbr

Pioneer
urIzzet Phoenixur
rMono-Red Aggror
uwAzorius Controluw

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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

Wow, so Embercleave is probably the most pushed equipment they've printed since... Batterskull? It's better than Godsend IMO. I'm pretty surprised they printed this. Might be playable with SFM.
Modern
ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
uwg Bant Stoneblade uwg
gbr Jund gbr

Pioneer
urIzzet Phoenixur
rMono-Red Aggror
uwAzorius Controluw

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bg Meren of Clan Nel Toth bg

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Post by pierreb » 1 year ago

once upon a time falls into the annoying category of cards that are bad until they are busted. At it's nominal cost, it's a worse ancient stirring, so a typical green spell of its kind. But for its special free price, it would only see play if it enables something broken, like making neoform more consistent.

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Post by mtg_data_scraper » 1 year ago

Hey all, I posted this to Reddit and figured people here would get some use out of it too:

Modern Magic Stats: Ban Talk

I've been tallying keyword statistics on r/modernmagic since the start of the new year, tracking deck and card popularity based on how often specific decks and cards are discussed on the subreddit. I wrote an article with some charts and breakdowns of which cards people most frequently talk about banning. You can check out how often people used the words 'ban', 'banned', 'banning', and 'bans' in association with a given deck or card. Check out the sharp rise in ban talk when Hogaak started taking over or how Faithless Looting has fluctuated and spiked in preparation for each banlist announcement.


Ancient Stirrings and Mox Opal have a pretty high ban rating. 30% of the keyword captures for Stirrings for the past 30 days contain a 'ban' keyword, and 25% for Opal (although Opal is discussed half as much as Stirrings). Of course this data is in no way indicative of whether a card should be banned, but is only a metric of how often people on the sub talk about bannings.

You can check out how many total times 'ban' comes up in context of a given deck or card, as well as ban percentage that shows how often 'ban' comes up relative to how often a deck is discussed on the deck pages (or under data where everything is laid out in a table)

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

True-Name Nemesis wrote:
1 year ago
This new card ... Once Upon a Time.. seriously?

If anyone ever thought GSZ is gonna make creature combo too good or consistent, this card is WoTC saying "hold my beer"
This card will be used in creature or land combo decks in multiple formats forever. I am brewing starting now.

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

pierreb wrote:
1 year ago
once upon a time falls into the annoying category of cards that are bad until they are busted. At it's nominal cost, it's a worse ancient stirring, so a typical green spell of its kind. But for its special free price, it would only see play if it enables something broken, like making neoform more consistent.
I can't wait to see the blue card in this cycle! :hmm:

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Post by Zorakkiller » 1 year ago

if once upon a time is what we think it is, it makes gsz being banned even more ridiculous. I'm a little disheartened seeing wizards push another free spell.

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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
True-Name Nemesis wrote:
1 year ago
This new card ... Once Upon a Time.. seriously?

If anyone ever thought GSZ is gonna make creature combo too good or consistent, this card is WoTC saying "hold my beer"
This card will be used in creature or land combo decks in multiple formats forever. I am brewing starting now.
that card seems so good.

also, the GDS list that made top 8 at SCG DFW runs no gy hate, is that too bold or correct? asking for an mcq this weekend. I don't know if I should leave without my leylines

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
also, the GDS list that made top 8 at SCG DFW runs no gy hate, is that too bold or correct? asking for an mcq this weekend. I don't know if I should leave without my leylines
Much like in many events, if you dodge the decks you aren't prepared for, you will likely have good success. There is a ton of variance in any individual matchup, in addition to the general baked-in variance of individual games. Just because it correlated to success doesn't mean it was the 'correct' choice.

For my opinion, GY decks are looking to get people like this; especially Creeping Dredge. While I might scale back my GY hate, cutting it entirely just seems like a concession to matches they don't expect to have too many of.

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

All of those statistics do nothing change what he wrote about SFM. People can be wrong and still be good at the subject matter they are wrong about. He's wrong about SFM, imho anyways. Sure I'm a nobody, but this is a forum of nobody's so I should at least be on even ground with y'all.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

Pistallion wrote:
1 year ago
I totally agree. Why is it that Mox Opal is the card that people bring up (especially on Reddit) when it comes to these decks? Opal is not what what makes the Urza deck good. I honestly hope they don't ban Mox Opal. The card lets cool combos exist, and if Urza is the real problem, then just ban Urza.

Right now, though, I think we have enough tools to deal with the deck. I could be wrong, and I think we just need to give more time.

Edit: LOL
Haven't you heard the new hype - new cards printed in order to ban older cards? (like Bridge from Below, which I admit has been a terror in the Modern format since 2011 and would still be the best card after the Hogaak and Looting bans) :smirk:

My question is this - when are they going to print something that forces the bannings of Simian Spirit Guide, Griselbrand, and Mox Opal? Is now the time for the latter? It took a creature with arguably 3 insane abilities.

*A best friend just won an MCQ with 4 Color Whirza. He had practiced the deck for 1-2 weeks at most, even though it was pretty intensive. He is mostly a Scales player (4 for 4 day 2s in GPs and 12-3 at Vegas), but didn't feel like playing the inferior deck. I guess it paid off. :D
Last edited by FoodChainGoblins 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

Emry, Lurker of the Loch

2U

Legendary Creature — Merfolk Wizard

This spell costs {1} less to cast for each artifact you control.

When Emry, Lurker of the Loch enters the battlefield, put the top four cards of your library into your graveyard.

Tap: choose target artifact card in your graveyard. You may cast that card this turn.

1/2
Uhhhhh...... this card seems broken in Whirza..... Artifact destruction just won't work against them anymore with both this and Goblin Engineer allowing them to recur stuff from the graveyard.
Modern
ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
uwg Bant Stoneblade uwg
gbr Jund gbr

Pioneer
urIzzet Phoenixur
rMono-Red Aggror
uwAzorius Controluw

Commander
bg Meren of Clan Nel Toth bg

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

lol'd at the Jim Davis screenshot.
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New legendary merfolk seems like an upgrade for whirza and some other artifact heavy decks. Though not enough for me to put back gy removal in the main.
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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

gkourou wrote:
1 year ago

Even if this card proves to be fine, this is a wrong print. It's like they are not thinking of Modern.
Well, they've been on record saying they don't keep eternal formats in mind for standard designs (for the most part). Furthermore, this card was designed before Whirza existed as a deck.

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Post by iTaLenTZ » 1 year ago

Emry is way above Goblin Engineer.

1) You can easily play her turn 1.
2) Turn 2 she functions like a Bird of Paradise if you hit a Mox Opal making you able to play Urza on turn 2 more consistently.
3) From turn 2 and forward she functions as 'tap: draw a card" with Mishra's Bauble and others. This is insane CA.
4) You don't have to sacrifice any artifacts.
5) She is blue therefore Whirza can drop red and make the deck more consistent.
6) She still has a chance of hitting Sword of the Meek but either way she provides the CA to find it or grind out your opponent.

If Whirza was already the best deck in Modern this card will push it even further.

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

I think we shouldn't be losing our minds over Emry (yet). I can definitely see all the arguments for it being a good card, but whether it is better than Goblin Engineer of Stoneforge Mystic in Whirza is a matter of testing and/or adjusting.

For example, yes Emry can mill your combo piece and then bring it back at no cost, but there is only a certain % that this will happen. Goblin Engineer can fetch any artifact on demand, allowing you to build in a more toolbox way. So is it better to up your combo pieces and run a higher % hitting with Emry, or is it better to be toolbox with Goblin Engineer?

The synergy of Goblin Engineer with Ichor Wellspring is also a real thing that you lose by playing Emry.

Goblin Engineer puts the card into the battlefield, while Emry allows you to cast it, making it both vulnerable to counterspells, as well as more mana intensive if the artifact costs 2 or 3.

Emry is Legendary, while Goblin Engineer is not, meaning that the 2nd Goblin Engineer becomes much better (i.e. if you have one in play already, you tutor something with the second one and get it back immediately).

So yeah, I don't think Emry is the end all be all card that will break Whirza. Not saying she is not great, she is, and as I said, I can see all the arguments for her. But at the same time, I think it's a matter of testing to prove which card is actually the best. My guess is that people will run her alongside Goblin Engineer, maybe as a 1-off.
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by Pistallion » 1 year ago

Yeah and most decks are running low copies of Sword of the Meek due to the fact that you can just tutor it up. If you are relying on Emry then you kind of have to run 4 Swords.

[mention]mtg_data_scraper[/mention] sup dude, welcome! Your post shows my inclination people are obsessed with Ancient Stirrings and Mox Opal for no good reason :grin:
RGValakutGR

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

Quick admin question: the newest B&R announcement and next announcement date are not updated on the first page. Can we fix that please?

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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

Yeah, Emry doesn't replace Goblin Engineer, I think they run her alongside the goblin. SFM is just bad in Whirza, most of the good Whirza players have already figured that out and I expect the rest of them will follow suit soon.

I think the question is how many of these creatures does Whirza want? Most lists aren't running the full 4 Engineers, so do you still just want 3 of these creatures, or do they want to use flex slots to play more of them? Maybe 3 Engineers and 2 Emry?

If Emry sees wide adoption, though, I think it means that the best axis to attack Whirza on will be the graveyard. It shuts off their combo and their value loops, but you'll still have to beat their midrange gameplan in Urza drawing cards and making his construct, and Tezzeret. God, this is such a strong deck... It really is just better Splinter Twin, people who say that are 100% right.
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ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
uwg Bant Stoneblade uwg
gbr Jund gbr

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uwAzorius Controluw

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Post by Misguided1 » 1 year ago

Idk how jank this is/could be, but I saw the following on twitter:
t1: bauble, mox, emry
t2: jeskai ascendancy shenanigans.

One of the comments also mentioned mox amber. Could be an interesting combo somewhere in there.

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

I used to play jeskia ascendancy and I liked it alot. What you have described above is very jank but those shenanigans would be very powerful once online. The cards you are talking about would require a complete rework of the deck because it currently is not artifact based. Maybe there will be a good build, we will have to wait and see.

EDIT: I have given this more thought over the last few hours. Effectively it seems to me this could make a playable cheerios style deck. Looping mox opal or mox amber makes lots of mana, I would recommend fatestitcher and thought scour too, you would need more artifacts like the zero cost equipment cheerios uses maybe or pithing needle or anything cheap really. Maybe lightning bolt, opt or SV. Finisher could still be grapeshot or just attack with your giant fatestitcher(s). Playable and fun, sure. Jank, only as much as those other decks.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

Our new faithless looting?!
loot.jpg
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

I think I still prefer cathartic reunion over merchant of the vale. I am looking forward to deafening silence and "sound intrusion" (That is a translation, name may change but it is a new discard spell). And those are on top of emry, once upon a time and others, this set has alot going on.

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Post by deimos035 » 1 year ago

I'm still baffled about AS/Opal talk. How many recent decks with AS were broken? Scales? No evidence of that, Tron? People tend to complain about everytime Tron is good because of meta. Opal was not the reason KCI was banned, so I'm still wondering what makes people think those cards should be banned? Tier 1 is not a safe place, that much is obvious, but neither Tron, nor Scales and not even Opal itself warps the meta (unless wotc will break it with other cards in the future, but it can happen for almost any deck).

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

deimos035 wrote:
1 year ago
I'm still baffled about AS/Opal talk. How many recent decks with AS were broken? Scales? No evidence of that, Tron? People tend to complain about everytime Tron is good because of meta. Opal was not the reason KCI was banned, so I'm still wondering what makes people think those cards should be banned? Tier 1 is not a safe place, that much is obvious, but neither Tron, nor Scales and not even Opal itself warps the meta (unless wotc will break it with other cards in the future, but it can happen for almost any deck).
I think people realize that Urza, High Lord Artificer is pretty busted. People are not dumb. Still, people also know that WotC likes banning older cards (cards that have outlived their necessity in the metas that they were in) instead of new cards. So, do the math. Mox Opal is more on the chopping block than Urza is, similar to how Bridge from Below was on the chopping block instead of Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis. Urza may indeed still get a ban down the road, but perhaps Mox Opal is a way to slow the deck down? Not by much, as someone who plays the deck myself.

Ever since my friend won an MCQ (and I failed at 6 of them), I have been testing like crazy for this weekend's MCQ with Urza. I don't think there's much reason to run something else, especially if people don't consider the deck as strong as they considered Hogaak a month ago. :D
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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