[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

True-Name Nemesis wrote:
1 year ago
Hogaak banned
Looting banned
SFM unbanned

LOOOOL

link: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... -26?querys
VICTORY at last!! A looting free modern world has dawned.

sorry, I'm usually conservative with words on this thread. But this calls for a celebration!! haha :grin:

my Mardu Pyro is sad, and the deck has now 4 free slots though...

can now decrease the gy removal in my modern deck sideboards. :)
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Post by motleyslayer » 1 year ago

Even though I played a looting deck (Mardu Pyro), I'm pretty glad it finally got banned. It enabled way too much and needed to go.

I wish I bought my set of sfm already though

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Bearscape
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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

I'm at work and had to step outside for a bit so my colleagues wouldn't think I've gone completely mad

This is the update I would have dreamed for but not bet on. Looting is finally out of here!

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Post by RedCheese » 1 year ago

B-u-u-u-t Faithless Looting is the Brainstorm of the format? They can't banend that? Right?

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I wish I bought my set of sfm already though
same here. I should have bought some more..

SFM is suddenly a 60 dollar card on SCG. For sure, she also spiked hard on other places.
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Post by Erian Ignis » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I wish I bought my set of sfm already though
same here. I should have bought some more..

SFM is suddenly a 60 dollar card on SCG. For sure, she also spiked hard on other places.
I hear you. I am one SFM from a full set... I'll have to do with only 3 while the hype cools down.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

All I know, is if I play again, I'm playing K-Command. :p
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Amalek0
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Post by Amalek0 » 1 year ago

Can someone post the full text of the announcement, for those of us at work...?

True-Name Nemesis
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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

MODERN
Since the release of Modern Horizons, graveyard decks using Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis have had an enormous impact on the Modern metagame. After early signs of the metagame being unable to self-correct, such as players adopting large amounts of main-deck graveyard hate and the Hogaak deck still boasting high win rates, we restricted Bridge from Below to weaken the deck.

Since then, the results of Mythic Championship IV in Barcelona, several Grands Prix, and other tournaments have shown that Hogaak continues to have a high win rate and oppressive effect on the metagame. In looking at the evolution of the archetype over time and the variety of successful ways to build the deck, it's clear that the card Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis is the crux of the problem. Therefore, Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis is banned.

Coming out of this period of an unhealthy Modern metagame, we want to avoid taking a half step that once again leaves the metagame in a place where it can't self-correct. Over the past year, graveyard-based strategies have been occupying a large portion of the Modern metagame, to the point where deck-building diversity is being suppressed. This is reflected in the rise of heavy-handed main deck anti-graveyard cards like Surgical Extraction, Leyline of the Void, and Rest in Peace. We'd like to shift gameplay a little bit away from the graveyard and back toward the hand and battlefield.

The key card enabling the majority of these graveyard-focused decks is Faithless Looting. By our data gathered from Magic Online and tabletop tournament results, over the past year the winningest Modern deck at any given point in time has usually been a Faithless Looting deck. Examples include Hollow One, Izzet Phoenix, and Dredge and Bridgevine variants (both pre- and post-Hogaak's release). As new card designs are released that deal with the graveyard, discarding cards, and casting cheap spells, the power of Faithless Looting's efficient hand and graveyard manipulation continues to scale upward. Regardless of Hogaak's recent impact, Faithless Looting would be a likely eventual addition to the banned list in the near future. In order to ensure the metagame doesn't again revert to a Faithless Looting graveyard deck being dominant, we believe now is the correct time to make this change. For this same reason, we're choosing not to unban Bridge from Below at this time.

Knowing that these changes will already shake up the metagame, we consider this a good time to review cards currently on the banned list. Just as was our philosophy in unbanning Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bloodbraid Elf last year, we recognize that over time the power level of Modern increases naturally as the card pool grows. Cards that were added to the banned list on pure power level may now be more appropriate in context of a more powerful metagame. We believe the Modern metagame and power level are in a place where Stoneforge Mystic is now an appropriate inclusion in the card pool.

The danger in reintroducing Stoneforge Mystic, and the reason it's remained on the banned list up until this point, is that it's at its strongest against straightforward decks that play to the battlefield. While we think it's unlikely, there is a scenario where Stoneforge Mystic could come to suppress this type of gameplay, in which case we would re-examine its legality (similar to Golgari Grave-Troll's history in Modern). Instead, our hope is that as gameplay becomes less graveyard focused, Stoneforge Mystic serves as an enticing draw for decks to refocus toward the battlefield, creature combat, and card advantage

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Post by DarthDrac » 1 year ago

I have a playset of SFM, was actually messing around with Hammer Time of late, but I also just lost Izzet Pheonix and possibly Hollow One (It might still work). This Forum is very anti Looting, and that's fine, but a lot of folk just had their decks hit. I'd guess this ban will have a greater impact than the, oh so precious Splinter Twin, in terms of people wanting Looting unbanned in the long run... On the plus side I also have green tron and mono black devotion, so I haven't lost all my decks.

This ban scares me though, how long does Mox Opal or Ancient Stirrings have? What about Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial?

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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
All I know, is if I play again, I'm playing K-Command. :p
I'd play Stony Silence instead. I don't really expect SFM to make a very big splash, and the next busted cards now Faithless Looting is dethroned are Mox Opal and Ancient Stirrings

To clarify, because I can see the accusations coming: No, I am not suggesting a ban on those cards minutes after Looting got the hammer :P

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

YES! They finally got it right!
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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

DarthDrac wrote:
1 year ago
This ban scares me though, how long does Mox Opal or Ancient Stirrings have? What about Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial?
This is the worst part of the ban. Expect SIGNIFICANT upticks in ban mania and calls after this. Stirrings will be squarely in the community crosshairs with Opal close behind. Vial and Cavern probably fine because few decks use them. But expect lots of random ban calls and fears on SSG, Stirrings, Opal, W6, T3feri, probably SFM herself, and others. That's probably not too much of a deviation from the norm of Modern discourse, but it will be noticeably increased.
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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

DarthDrac wrote:
1 year ago
I have a playset of SFM, was actually messing around with Hammer Time of late, but I also just lost Izzet Pheonix and possibly Hollow One (It might still work). This Forum is very anti Looting, and that's fine, but a lot of folk just had their decks hit. I'd guess this ban will have a greater impact than the, oh so precious Splinter Twin, in terms of people wanting Looting unbanned in the long run... On the plus side I also have green tron and mono black devotion, so I haven't lost all my decks.

This ban scares me though, how long does Mox Opal or Ancient Stirrings have? What about Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial?
I do have sympathy for those that lost decks. It righteously sucks to have that happen. The ban rational behind it is sound though. You remove hogaak? Ok, its just time to go back to another looting deck. A few of us have been saying it for a long long time.

As to your list. In the very long term (6-12 Months)

Mox/Stirrings - Borrowed time imo. Players will find what cheats the most mana/cards and they will find the ways to leverage it.
Cavern - Fine. Field of Ruin will always be here, and something needs to dunk on UW Counter spells.
Vial - Fine. Especially since will be given incentive to run Artifact hate again, instead of all GY hate, all the time.
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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

True-Name Nemesis wrote:
1 year ago
As new card designs are released that deal with the graveyard, discarding cards, and casting cheap spells, the power of Faithless Looting's efficient hand and graveyard manipulation continues to scale upward. Regardless of Hogaak's recent impact, Faithless Looting would be a likely eventual addition to the banned list in the near future.
I want to bring some attention to this statement. This rationale is very similar to the one given for Birthing Pod. But it also signals that WoTC has intentions to keep introducing powerful graveyard-based cards and push boundaries of graveyard-centric strategies.

So I think Modern players can still expect powerful graveyard strategies to exist at some point. Whether they be new ones, or different takes on existing ones.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

Jace, SFM, Squadron Hawk - the old standard Caw-blade deck is finally modern legal. :)

There's even more swords to choose from now, because allied color swords have been printed.
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Post by izzetmage » 1 year ago

Wow oh wow. Hogaak gone, Looting also gone, SFM back. At least now we have our version of Leovold, Emissary of Trest, a card banned in a format it was created for.
Looting kills a whole bunch of decks. I'm quite sad to see Loam get hit by it as well, given all the support for it in Modern Horizons.
UW was always a great deck, just one that was overshadowed by other decks doing more broken stuff. Thopter Sword is also playable for the first time in forever thanks to Urza and Goblin Engineer, maybe a variant with SFM+Batterskull (SFM also tutoring Sword when necessary) could be good enough.

I expect more Abrades being played to destroy Batterskull while not being dead against other decks. 3 toughness removal should be more effective now anyway, since the Looting decks were full of 4+ toughness guys or creatures that wouldn't stay dead after you killed them.

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
1 year ago
DarthDrac wrote:
1 year ago
This ban scares me though, how long does Mox Opal or Ancient Stirrings have? What about Cavern of Souls or Aether Vial?
This is the worst part of the ban. Expect SIGNIFICANT upticks in ban mania and calls after this. Stirrings will be squarely in the community crosshairs with Opal close behind. Vial and Cavern probably fine because few decks use them. But expect lots of random ban calls and fears on SSG, Stirrings, Opal, W6, T3feri, probably SFM herself, and others. That's probably not too much of a deviation from the norm of Modern discourse, but it will be noticeably increased.
Stirrings SHOULD consider itself officially put on notice. Looting ban proves that NO card is too big to fail if it means a healthy format. Stirrings will only get better over time so its going to get axed eventually imo.
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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

In my prep period right now. So many scattered thoughts. I'm sad not to see Twin, but holy cow, Looting banned is a GIFT from above! Stoneforge is whatever, I'll brew bad blue decks with it's just like I have been for years. Worried about Eldrazi and Whirza, but Looting ban absolutely opens up possibilities of hitting Stirrings, Opal, and other "safe" things.... Lots to digest. Will take a solid look more later on in the day.

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Post by iTaLenTZ » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
All I know, is if I play again, I'm playing K-Command. :p
This is one of the reasons I am selling my playset Stoneforge Mystics. Stoneforge would be best in a deck with 4 Force of Negation to protect it and probably in a snowshell with Ice-Fang Coatl to create CA.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I'm just happy I may be able to play Grixis again for the first time in years lol.
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Post by Wraithpk » 1 year ago

So, the real question is:


OG SFM, or GP promo SFM?
Modern
ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
uwg Bant Stoneblade uwg
gbr Jund gbr

Pioneer
urIzzet Phoenixur
rMono-Red Aggror
uwAzorius Controluw

Commander
bg Meren of Clan Nel Toth bg

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Post by TheAnswer » 1 year ago

Mox Opal is on borrowed time; it definitely does something more powerful than most of the format. The only difference is, each time one of its decks has gotten too good, something else has been banned. It only takes a case of Affinity or Hardened Scales becoming too good for Opal to get hit. I feel those strategies have enough natural predators that we might not get there for a while, but Opal is definitely ban-worthy.

Stirrings is now the last Ponder+ in the format; I'm glad they're deciding to be consistent and remove the best cantrips from Modern, if they aren't giving us back Preordain. Stirrings is also one step away from being banned, and is likely always going to be on the watchlist. It is the most efficient cantrip left, and requires deck building constraints that, at times, happen to just be the best thing to do. Having the best cantrip is alright if you aren't also a dominant archetype in the format; the next time Tron becomes top dog, or if a new busted artifact combo deck arises that doesn't revolve around colored cards, expect Stirrings to be considered for a ban.

I personally dislike Caverns, as it offers huge upside against control players for virtually no downside (if you are using it, you don't care that you need to play mostly creatures), but in terms of power level it's totally fine. It's answerable in land destruction, and counterspells for creatures are never going to be at a high enough presence that Cavern becomes too good.

Vial is tricky. It cheats on mana in a very dangerous way, but it is gated to certain CMCs of creatures and takes a turn or more to get going. I really don't think we'll ever see Vial banned (there are just too many better things to do with the first two turns of the game than drop a 1 drop for free T2) but I never say never. I could see a place where a variety of aggro decks utilizing Vial push out mid-range, and if they are disrupting enough they have game against control decks. The only problem with this is there would need to be more than just Humans doing this, and there has not been an archetype that comes close to as efficient as Humans is at what it does. If we get Merfolk or Vampires up to Humans level, at the same time as both are well positioned, that's about the only time I could see a Vial ban considered.

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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
motleyslayer wrote:
1 year ago
I wish I bought my set of sfm already though
same here. I should have bought some more..

SFM is suddenly a 60 dollar card on SCG. For sure, she also spiked hard on other places.
You mean, like I did during the GP period where they printed her as a promo for 9 euros a piece? ^_^
Not to brag really, but this is the fourth time I managed to save a ton of money from buying already banned cards. I had a full playset of Bitterblossoms which I refused to sell, because I expected an unban at some point. Same for Ancestral Visions. I also bought Jaces the moment Aaron said they were "thinking about it", which was about a year before the unban, but still managed to get 2 FTV20 Jaces for 45 euros a piece (plus the one I had from my own FTV). Now the SFM.

The thing I regretted the most was not buying Swords before the unbanning, even though I strongly suspected it, and it would had saved me A TON of money. The same goes for not buying the promo Bloodbraid Elves.

I think it is generally an advisable financial course of action, cards that are being realistically contested, to invest in them even WAY ahead of time. Currently I don't have any other cards I suspect will come off the list at some point but we'll see what the future holds.

This, I think is really one of the strongest developments here. Besides Splinter Twin, there aren't really any other strong contenders for unban atm. I wonder how the discussion here evolve. I hope it won't be another 100 pages of Splinter Twin banter.
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by True-Name Nemesis » 1 year ago

This announcement is good enough to stave that off for awhile.

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