[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Albegas
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Post by Albegas » 2 years ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
2 years ago
Reminder, SFM did just get a new toy in colossis hammer. It still has to pair with puresteel paladin or sigarda's aid but that is something new she can do besides batterskull. Also she could see play in the thopter-sword decks running around. I agree SFM should be unbanned, but I just wanted to say there are more issues than batterskull and UW control being good.
Funnily enough, one of the content writers for MTGGoldfish was playing around with a budget Hammer Deck that actually focused on slapping a hammer on a cheap double striker and swinging for game. Granted, this was a deck brewed for a budget deck video, so it's not optimized, but even if it were, it just comes off as an infect deck with worse evasion to me. SFM would slot into the deck, no doubt about it, but I don't think she would raise the ceiling of the deck to the point that the deck becomes too dominant, at least not with the cards in our immediate card pool. It seems about as soft to removal as Infect

As for UrzaSword, I don't immediately see what SFM brings that Goblin Engineer can't do better. You don't really need Batterskull and GE's ability to put Sword of the Meek straight into the graveyard and its ability to "search" for any artifact seems more useful. I would definitely be open to an analysis by anyone with more experience with the deck though.

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TheAnnihilator
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Post by TheAnnihilator » 2 years ago

I would like to interject that, while any UW player who says the deck won't play SFM is being disingenuous, playing SFM to see if it's good enough to stick is NOT the same as playing it as a part of the stock main board that never gets cut. Of course UW will play it, but the question is whether or not that will prove to be the best option. Many UW players, myself and Amalek0 included, believe that SFM has to be built around with more than just a few equipment to fetch out. A SFM deck must have 1) a desire to close the game faster, 2) have no better way to do so than SFM, and 3) play a number of main board creatures to wield Swords or play protection spells like Pierce. I also think that Jeskai is likely the best blue home for SFM for a number of reasons, Bolt being a main role player in a potential SFM meta. The deck everyone neglects to talk about when it comes to SFM is actually Taxes, both of the BW Eldrazi type and the monoW variant.

Let me ask a related question... Does anyone think SFM is worth playing with Batterskull as the only equipment? Because a deck like UW is probably not interested in playing Swords.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
2 years ago
Let me ask a related question... Does anyone think SFM is worth playing with Batterskull as the only equipment? Because a deck like UW is probably not interested in playing Swords.
Yes, it certainly is. But I don't see the cost of 1 Sword as being too high a cost to just run 6 total cards in the package.

I personally think that UW would be put into 2 categories - a UW Midrange/Stoneblade type deck and the current UW Control deck (perhaps with a few changes to deal with our new Kor friend). It still doesn't mean that this will be too powerful. I'm sick of seeing this "Wizards only unbans cards to be in less than Tier 1 strategies." Guess what? Stoneblade is currently a "less than Tier 1" strategy because it currently has to use Steelshaper's Gift. Stoneforge Mystic is currently 100% fine and I'm pretty sure that WotC would be willing to admit it at this point. Has anyone messaged Aaron Forsythe about this one?
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

That's pretty sad in my honest opinion.

Death and Taxes would pretty assuredly run SfM. The small anti-synergy is offset by the power of both cards. It gives them a real win-con. Eldrazi Taxes will run it too. Yes, a lot of decks with White will run it. It will be run probably around 1 for every 10 Lightning Bolt decks Pre-Hogaak.

UW Stoneblade - will run the card and the 2 equipments. Can finally shelve Steelshaper's Gift. :grin:
UW Control - doesn't need the card, basically plays without a win-con (PW kill or Celestial Colonnade beats)
Last edited by FoodChainGoblins 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
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Post by Ym1r » 2 years ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
2 years ago
I would like to interject that, while any UW player who says the deck won't play SFM is being disingenuous, playing SFM to see if it's good enough to stick is NOT the same as playing it as a part of the stock main board that never gets cut. Of course UW will play it, but the question is whether or not that will prove to be the best option. Many UW players, myself and Amalek0 included, believe that SFM has to be built around with more than just a few equipment to fetch out. A SFM deck must have 1) a desire to close the game faster, 2) have no better way to do so than SFM, and 3) play a number of main board creatures to wield Swords or play protection spells like Pierce. I also think that Jeskai is likely the best blue home for SFM for a number of reasons, Bolt being a main role player in a potential SFM meta. The deck everyone neglects to talk about when it comes to SFM is actually Taxes, both of the BW Eldrazi type and the monoW variant.

Let me ask a related question... Does anyone think SFM is worth playing with Batterskull as the only equipment? Because a deck like UW is probably not interested in playing Swords.
This is a quality post. I only have a few small comments/disagreements. Firstly, I do agree that of course UW will play the card. Let's not forget, the FB community of UWx control/midrange, one of the largest archetype communities on FB, pays significant focus to the midrange variant of the deck. Granted it's currently not tier 1, it will definitely push an existing archetype and there it WILL slot right in.

The UW midrange ahs most of the qualities you described as needed for an effective use of SFM. Now, whether adding R for bolt is good or not, that's up for debate I think. Stoneblade decks in Legacy don't play red mostly, they are either straight UW or UWb. I think an esper midrange/mentor/SFM list could potentially go a long way.

I do agree that people forget the Taxes decks and that's straight up wrong. Taxes deck will get a great boost with SFM. Will it push them to Tier 1? I would say possibly, but wouldn't bet my money on it.

Another deck that people forget, mistakenly imho, is UW Spirits. One of the reasons that UW stoneblade is a thing in legacy is because of True Name Nemesis. We don't have that in modern, but UW Spirits players can easily make-their-own-TNN with a single/double captain AND have the evasion that is so crucial to TNN.

So, decks that I clearly foresee as SFM decks: UWx Midrange, D&T (eldrazi, Wg, monoW), and Spirits
Other potential candidates: Abzan Midrange, Mardu Pyromancers, some sort of value company deck. The possibility for a Zoo style 5c deck is there, but Humans is still probably better.
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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

Ym1r wrote:
2 years ago
Another deck that people forget, mistakenly imho, is UW Spirits. One of the reasons that UW stoneblade is a thing in legacy is because of True Name Nemesis. We don't have that in modern, but UW Spirits players can easily make-their-own-TNN with a single/double captain AND have the evasion that is so crucial to TNN.

So, decks that I clearly foresee as SFM decks: UWx Midrange, D&T (eldrazi, Wg, monoW), and Spirits
Other potential candidates: Abzan Midrange, Mardu Pyromancers, some sort of value company deck. The possibility for a Zoo style 5c deck is there, but Humans is still probably better.
I wish we could have this kind of competitive diversity that asks you to just play normal magic, and not 'london mull to the hate'. This concept that having strong pillar's that are not Looting, Stirrings, Vial...is bad is just weird to me.

We should WANT more cards like SFM out there.
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Post by Ym1r » 2 years ago

idSurge wrote:
2 years ago
Ym1r wrote:
2 years ago
Another deck that people forget, mistakenly imho, is UW Spirits. One of the reasons that UW stoneblade is a thing in legacy is because of True Name Nemesis. We don't have that in modern, but UW Spirits players can easily make-their-own-TNN with a single/double captain AND have the evasion that is so crucial to TNN.

So, decks that I clearly foresee as SFM decks: UWx Midrange, D&T (eldrazi, Wg, monoW), and Spirits
Other potential candidates: Abzan Midrange, Mardu Pyromancers, some sort of value company deck. The possibility for a Zoo style 5c deck is there, but Humans is still probably better.
I wish we could have this kind of competitive diversity that asks you to just play normal magic, and not 'london mull to the hate'. This concept that having strong pillar's that are not Looting, Stirrings, Vial...is bad is just weird to me.

We should WANT more cards like SFM out there.
I know we all (or most of us) crave for even more interactive magic, but let's not pretend that SFM does anything particularly fair or that it is "normal magic". I do want the card unbanned, and I do think it will create or facilitate at least one if not more fair decks, but the card itself doesn't play normal magic. Maybe cheating a T3 BSkull is not something to be afraid of, but that doesn't make it normal.

Now, none said that having other pillars than these is bad. But we don't get really to choose. It's not like the Legacy community collectively agreed that Brainstorm should be the defining card, it happened because of the power level of the card and the current understanding of the metagame. The latter part is something we really need keep in our minds. Looting was legal for a LONG time until we figured out how to break it. A lot of things are related to understanding and perception. A few months back, I think it was February or March, I played 2 Surgicals mainboard in my Esper Mentor list, trying to maximize his capabilities and because we had a couple of dredge decks here and there in my LGS. A semi-pro friend of mine told me that this is definitely a mistake and we had a veeeeery long discussion about whether it was a good call to do it or not, and what was the right number. Well, 2 months later Surgical main was the norm :P Can't say I was the one who figured out the meta, but a lot of things are related to perception and exposure to certain tournaments/media/etc.

If you read this thread, for example, often you will get the idea that the format is in shambles, not able to survive the year. This has been true for YEARS literally, we've both been here. But the fact of the matter is that the format has been here to stay so... there is that. Yeah, these cards are pillar right now, and it is what it is. In a year from now maybe Vial is a %$#% card again, like it was 5 years ago, and none talks about it. Who knows. It's not a bad or a good thing, it is what it is.
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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

Within the context of Modern? Yes SFM is leaning towards 'fair' and 'normal'. Its not like we play Bear's around here.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

idSurge wrote:
2 years ago
Within the context of Modern? Yes SFM is leaning towards 'fair' and 'normal'. Its not like we play Bear's around here.
Yep. UR Phoenix, Shadow variants, Humans, these are all decks considered to be "fair" and were at least sort of the police of Modern. They're not doing too shabby a job right now, but after an impending Hogaak ban, they should be doing solidly (still far from perfectly).
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
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Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
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Post by BloodyRabbit » 2 years ago

All of that said. Please unban Stoneforge and let me lose in Modern with my favourite Legacy deck.

Thank you.

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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

BloodyRabbit wrote:
2 years ago
All of that said. Please unban Stoneforge and let me lose in Modern with my favourite Legacy deck.

Thank you.
You jest, but the number of people who simply want to be able to lose with a deck that is palatable to them, is a meaningful number. There are reason's people bring decks like Ponza to a GP level event, and its not because they are 'well positioned'. :D

Note: I just want to Serum, Remand, Dictate, Cryptic, Take Extra Turns till I self mill. :D
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Post by BloodyRabbit » 2 years ago

Lost the count of how many games I threw up selfmilling myself with Turns, gosh.

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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

Yeah but now its a wincon with redundancy!

Also, is Twiddlestorm a thing? People are starting to gripe about it.
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Post by BloodyRabbit » 2 years ago

In testing it didn't seem bad... just, not better than regular Storm. And Storm is Tier 5 right now.

But it was a very limited testing session, it didn't pique my interest.

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Post by ktkenshinx » 2 years ago

idSurge wrote:
2 years ago
Yeah but now its a wincon with redundancy!

Also, is Twiddlestorm a thing? People are starting to gripe about it.
It's just another sub Tier 2 combo deck with some hype. But many Moderners gripe about everything and it's only going tonget worse after this horrible summer. I expect ban talk to be at its highest ever this year.
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Post by Bearscape » 2 years ago

Twiddlestorm seems alright. Very noninteractive, little slow on the Goldfish for Modern. I'd be more impressed if it wasn't so reliant on Past in Flames resolving, which gives it a huge weakness

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Post by cfusionpm » 2 years ago

Fun stats on Hogaak...


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Ym1r
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Post by Ym1r » 2 years ago

cfusionpm wrote:
2 years ago
Fun stats on Hogaak...

Well,if you don't wanna play Hogaak then play Red Phoenix/Prowess or Humans, the only two decks with a meaningful positive win ratio against the deck. For this and next weekends, if I was playing, which sadly I am not, I would either go for Hogaak, or Mono Red Prowess/Humans. Eldrazi Tron is another excellent choice if you wanna have game against the rest of the field, but lose to the Gaak a good percent of the time.

My prediction is that Red Prowess is gonna be the break-out of this weekend, Eldrazi will have a great showing, maybe even win the GP, Humans will be decent, and Gaak will have a 57-59% WR.

People will stay away from UW, unfortunately, but for good reason, and we might see a good snow deck popping up, likely the Bant Soulherder deck that Nassif has been trying.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

Jeez! That's insane. I guess I need to practice more since I have yet to get past 63% overall.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

Ym1r wrote:
2 years ago
My prediction is that Red Prowess is gonna be the break-out of this weekend, Eldrazi will have a great showing, maybe even win the GP, Humans will be decent, and Gaak will have a 57-59% WR.
That would be the hope, and the meta cycles as we have seen countless times. If not, and people just stick with Hogaak, yikes.

Prowess or Mono R Phoenix are the only decks I would bother with, but Humans an E-Tron ( :sick:) remain decent options.

The problem with staking your success on the Hogaak match %, is even at 20% of Day 2, that doesnt mean you even played again it Day 1 lol.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

My prediction is that some non Hogaak decks can do well on Day 1, but on Day 2, many of those will be herded out. I am considering if I should try a strong Day 1 deck or a Day 2 deck (which I may not make, considering I haven't Day 2ed the last 3 GPs I played in). :(
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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

I'm sure Hogaak dunks on the majority of jank. I just go with 'if my life depended on it' test.

Play Hogaak, don't overthink it, the deck is actually busted.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 2 years ago

idSurge wrote:
2 years ago
I'm sure Hogaak dunks on the majority of jank. I just go with 'if my life depended on it' test.

Play Hogaak, don't overthink it, the deck is actually busted.
True. It's just that two tournaments at 1-3 (one with Bridge from Below) have lowered my win percentage less than 65% with the deck, which I do with almost any other deck in Modern. I got a bit tired of Leyline of the Void vs. Ass Trophy, Nature's Claim, and Force of Vigor. Then they have the follow up hate as well. I guess I have to admit that despite some variance with the deck, it still is very strong. In recent testing, variance has been cut down a bit, so there's that...
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
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Post by spawnofhastur » 2 years ago

I still don't think Hogaak is as dominant as Eldrazi Winter Eldrazi was, but it's definitely one of the best decks in the format.

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Post by idSurge » 2 years ago

It may not be full power Eldrazi, but it's clearly the best deck available.
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