The Community Deck Build Project v7.0

[Henlock]

I like Sidisi. Potentially repeateble.tutoring seems pretty nice.
I really like Spawning Pit. It has a great balance between being good and.friendly.
I will also yay Wow Strider. Free, instant speed outlet that helps with the cards we draw, that comes back with counters itself and makes a Goat on ETB.

I am not sure about Ghave..It's on theme, yet. I am not so inclined.towards paying that 1 mana to sacrifice something. What I mean to say is that I like it, but not as a sac outlet

[RxPhantom]

I was thinking this would be a blink deck and not a sac deck.

[Dunharrow]

I was thinking this would be a blink deck and not a sac deck.

It is, that's why only 4 sac outlets. Sac and reanimate does do good blink impression, and there are many ETB reanimate dudes (Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, etc) that make both themes work very well together.

[3drinks]

We could go for Woe Strider. Brings a goat, synergizes with our deck plan and is all around a great card.

I am not sure. This effect can be had for b in Viscera Seer which means we really have to care about that 0/1 goat, and I am not sure we do (if we did, we'd include Khalni Garden since it brings the 0/1 plant for free). I reckon, then, if we wanted a body and a sac outlet, we'd have to consider Trading Post at similar mana values and I think I'd lean towards post since it does way more. At the same three (though costing to activate), there's also Infernal Tribute.

I don't see a time when Woe Strider is ever the pick, you'd have to be at least six deep on free, repeatable sac outlets before Woe Strider is correct, by my estimation.

I worked three 12-hour shifts and slept until 1pm today. I have to admit that I'm not all that excited about this deck. I'm still gonna do my damndest though.

Oof. I guess this is why having an hourly retail job isn't the worst thing, I don't have to deal with crushing shifts. I hope you've gotten some sleep in since.

[3drinks]

Doomskar, Spawning Pit, and Ghave, Guru of Spores have all been confirmed.

I'll be the one to challenge Sidisi, whom really demands abusing her ETB in order to justify otherwise she is bad diabolic tutor|kld right? Is a one time sac outlet + tutour worth five? I have my doubts. I think we have to guarantee we will get at least two triggers in order to justify Sidisi to the list. On it's own, it's comparable to Increasing Ambition (and markedly worse when it goes late), and no one is exactly chomping at the bit to include ambition. So I'm gonna nay it until I'm proven otherwise.

Doomskar yay - 3 nay - 0
Ghave, Guru of Spores yay - 3 nay - 0
Spawning Pit yay - 3 nay - 0
Sidisi, Undead Vizier yay - 2 nay - 1

[3drinks]

Looks like the sac outlet slots are filled. Let's move on to card advantage and recursion, and I think we should shoot for 12 slots.

We'll start @cheonice and @Henlock on the clock for this.

[cheonice]

While Sun Titan is great and all, let's include something new and spicy: I'll nominate Guardian Scalelord! While she doesn't offer the raw power of everyone's favourite sunny giant, she can recur something the turn she etbs, has some snyergy with our gameplan and is an evasive beater.

Also nay to Sidisi. I'm with 3drinks, this is not a deck for her.

[Dunharrow]

Yay Guardian Scalelord. It sucks it cannot get lands, but otherwise seems really good. And it pairs well with Pernicious deed too.

Sidisi is a creature and a permanent, which means super easy to recur. As the deck stands, it is already better than a lot of 5 mana tutors.
That being said, if you tutor more than once you should win the game, right? Is that the power level we want?

[Henlock]

I am nominating Sun Titan. I picture the saffi-karmic-llark-rallier package is going to take half the slots

Yay to scalelord

[3drinks]

On the other hand. if no Sidisi, then what tutours do we get? Enlightened, Vampiric, & Demonic are out for price cap. You get Grim, Profane (LOL), and then specialized tutours a la Entomb, Unmarked Grave, and Buried Alive. Maybe Sidisi is good enough, when it's more direct comparisons are Hoarding Broodlord and Rune-Scarred Demon.....I think it's clear we want some tutours and this would be best in class for the level we're building toward, specifically in this light. If that makes sense I'll change my vote to confirm it into the list.

I like Scalelord and Sun Titties, but I think we're making the curve way too high with these 5+ mv cards. Mana curves still matter and I don't think we want a hand of six drops causing us extra unnecessary mulls. I think we need one or the other honestly. And I lean towards the dragon because there is actual synergy. Yay scalelord, nay sun tits.

This confirms Guardian Scalelord into the list. Finishing out this cycle of picks puts myself and @toctheyounger on the clock, and since I mentioned it, I'm just gonna nominate Grim Tutor and call it a day. Grim is perfectly fair and serviceable. It's not atrociously overcosted, nor severely undercosted, it really is that sweet spot.

Guardian Scalelord yay - 3 nay - 0
Sidisi, Undead Vizier yay - 2 nay - 2
Sun Titan|ddl yay - 0 nay - 1
Grim Tutor yay - 0 nay - 0

[Dunharrow]

I will yay sun titan. I just think this is the best 6 drop we can have.
Nay Grim Tutor. I don't like having too many tutors and would much prefer Sidisi over Grim. That's the only reason really.

[toctheyounger]

I'll go nay on Sidisi. Card is fine but this isn't where she should be. I still think this should be a blink deck, not a graveyard deck, at least by primary strategy.

I'm gonna suggest Hoarding Broodlord. I've been running it in Dihada, Binder of Wills and it's %$#% bonkers. It's tuned to be a high level combo deck and the card is strong enough that it's become a mainstay as one of the instigators for lots of my lines. Convoke is hella strong and we should have enough board presence to discount the upfront cost and the tutored card.

[3drinks]

I will yay sun titan. I just think this is the best 6 drop we can have.
Nay Grim Tutor. I don't like having too many tutors and would much prefer Sidisi over Grim. That's the only reason really.

Counterpoint, how many tutours do we have? By my count, grim was the first universal tutour and I think some number of them is healthy, though yes we obviously don't want to get to where 12%+ of the deck is a tutour.

[Dunharrow]

I will yay sun titan. I just think this is the best 6 drop we can have.
Nay Grim Tutor. I don't like having too many tutors and would much prefer Sidisi over Grim. That's the only reason really.

Counterpoint, how many tutours do we have? By my count, grim was the first universal tutour and I think some number of them is healthy, though yes we obviously don't want to get to where 12%+ of the deck is a tutour.

I am fine with thematic tutors (for examples, ones that sac). But unless necessary, like in an A+B+C deck, I just try to avoid them if I can. I know I am in the minority, but I voted per my preference.

[3drinks]

Sidisi has been knocked out. Sunday is a naturally slow day so I think we need some discussion on what's on the docket before starting the next cycle.

Sidisi, Undead Vizier yay - 2 nay - 3
Sun Titan|ddl yay - 1 nay - 1
Grim Tutor yay - 0 nay - 1
Hoarding Broodlord yay - 1 nay - 0

I am fine with thematic tutors (for examples, ones that sac). But unless necessary, like in an A+B+C deck, I just try to avoid them if I can. I know I am in the minority, but I voted per my preference.

Huh. Guess I always used them to go fetch an answer to a pressing problem. Though this reminds me I could have suggested Diabolic Intent.

[aliciaofthevast]

I'll yay grim tutour. I think it's a pretty reasonable card, it can be important to go grab a sweeper right now and grim let's us do that!

I'm not so sure about broodlord. If we dumped Sidisi because it was an over costed diabolic tutor (which I agree with), it takes three bodies just to make this thing the same as Sidisi. How many creatures do we expect to have out? I don't imagine getting this under six mana most games and I just don't think that's good enough. I don't see us swarming out, and so I think this dragon is a nay in this deck.

And then there's the titan. It's fine, it's never a bad draw, is this really the best we can be doing, or is it just the first thing that's come to mind in every xw deck? How often is Regrowth or Ramunap Excavator better? Just food for thought, even though I'm confident this'll make it in the deck regardless. 🙃

[toctheyounger]

I'll yay grim tutour. I think it's a pretty reasonable card, it can be important to go grab a sweeper right now and grim let's us do that!

I'm not so sure about broodlord. If we dumped Sidisi because it was an over costed diabolic tutor (which I agree with), it takes three bodies just to make this thing the same as Sidisi. How many creatures do we expect to have out? I don't imagine getting this under six mana most games and I just don't think that's good enough. I don't see us swarming out, and so I think this dragon is a nay in this deck.

And then there's the titan. It's fine, it's never a bad draw, is this really the best we can be doing, or is it just the first thing that's come to mind in every xw deck? How often is Regrowth or Ramunap Excavator better? Just food for thought, even though I'm confident this'll make it in the deck regardless. 🙃

Honestly, I could see us not playing in the graveyard at all and losing no value whatsoever. Sure, Saffi, but that's a real tight package that we can include for almost nothing. Anything over that, sac outlets and such, we don't really need to go there to me.

As far as Broodlord goes, I can't guarantee it's amazing here, but it literally replaced Razaketh, the Foulblooded in my Mardu shell and I don't regret a single thing. I think the difference is we can blink this, or reanimate it if we need to, the discount isn't insignificant, and the cards are immune to hand disruption. I don't necessarily think we need either. But I do think Broodlord is pretty great. It's got stellar potential; I'm still figuring out exactly where it shines, but a pseudo blink deck for an ETB that doesn't require us to use the graveyard like Sidisi does seems pretty alright to me.

Like I say though I don't think we'll drastically miss it, or any other tutor stuff of significance.

[Henlock]

Sun Titan, unlike Guardian Scalelord, has its recursion effect on ETB. Considering we are going into blink, I find it quite relevant since we'll probably play at instant speed to some degree. It also goes infinite with Saffi and a sacrifice.outlet, should we care. Currently, as the decklist is, it could mean:
All artifacts and enchantments our opponents control getting blown with Aura shards, while we make an arbitrary amount of counters on spawning pit or carrion feeder, and as many counters as we can sink our mana into in Ghave.
Or destroying any nonblack creature for B with Attrition. If Gyre Sage is around, it will go.all the way to 6/6.
There's ceiling everywhere.
Sun Titan is also better than scalelord when rebuilding after a boardwipe. It is also a beefy guy with vigilance, which is also quite relevant in combat.

[RxPhantom]

I think I'm gonna tap out on this one. Next time maybe.

[3drinks]

New cycle, new week, so let's put @Dunharrow and @cheonice on the clock. We're still on the tutours & card advantage portion of the deck.

Sun Titan|ddl yay - 1 nay - 1
Grim Tutor yay - 1 nay - 1
Hoarding Broodlord yay - 1 nay - 1

Honestly, I could see us not playing in the graveyard at all and losing no value whatsoever. Sure, Saffi, but that's a real tight package that we can include for almost nothing. Anything over that, sac outlets and such, we don't really need to go there to me.

As far as Broodlord goes, I can't guarantee it's amazing here, but it literally replaced Razaketh, the Foulblooded in my Mardu shell and I don't regret a single thing. I think the difference is we can blink this, or reanimate it if we need to, the discount isn't insignificant, and the cards are immune to hand disruption. I don't necessarily think we need either. But I do think Broodlord is pretty great. It's got stellar potential; I'm still figuring out exactly where it shines, but a pseudo blink deck for an ETB that doesn't require us to use the graveyard like Sidisi does seems pretty alright to me.

I don't get this. Sidisi isn't graveyard reliant, the card goes right to hand, it's not like it's ETB entomb. It's either a five mana diabolic tutour or it leaves a 4/6 deathtouch behind and picks off a mana dork or similar. In order for Broodlord to be better, we have to care about the typeline (Kaalia), or be able to go wide enough to consistently get it below four mana (tokens). Otherwise we'd just use Rune-Scarred Demon, right? I get that it's more exciting to use new cards, but there's no reason to force them when they're clearly inferior right? At least at present, I don't see enough upside to justify the eight* mv tutour dragon.

I think I'm gonna tap out on this one. Next time maybe.

You okay?

[Dunharrow]

Alright, I am going to change gears and go for some card draw
Fell Stinger seems like a good etb

[3drinks]

I like that we can draw3 on one trigger and it's a perfectly serviceable Yannik fodder. I also like that, unlike Sidisi, it's floor is just a worse read the bones which isn't entirely unplayable. I think this checks the boxes and is real clean around the edges. Should make it into the deck. Yay.

[cheonice]

So... all the tutors are heavily discussed. Are we sure, we even want one? Do we need one or can we fill these role with more card draw?
Anyway, Grim looks like a slightly better Diabolic Tutor, I don't think this is good enough. Broodlord is probably not better than Sidisi, which we discarded. So, if we really want a tutor, let's go with Diabolic Intent. Cheap, some synergies with our deck plan.

So, nay to Grim and Broodlord, yay to Sun Titan and Fell Stinger.

[toctheyounger]

I don't get this. Sidisi isn't graveyard reliant, the card goes right to hand, it's not like it's ETB entomb. It's either a five mana diabolic tutour or it leaves a 4/6 deathtouch behind and picks off a mana dork or similar. In order for Broodlord to be better, we have to care about the typeline (Kaalia), or be able to go wide enough to consistently get it below four mana (tokens). Otherwise we'd just use Rune-Scarred Demon, right? I get that it's more exciting to use new cards, but there's no reason to force them when they're clearly inferior right? At least at present, I don't see enough upside to justify the eight* mv tutour dragon.

All I can tell you is it's been amazing for me, and I don't run a ton of creatures in Dihada. That said, being in mardu it has the Saw in Half/Burnt Offering/Peer into the Abyss line which is straight up gross, and we can't exactly do that here (Sacrifice does exist but whatever). There's still things we could do with Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward, looping the broodlord and using soldiers to pay for convoke costs, but if we're not feeling it it's not a hill I'm that committed to dying on. I'm not all that tied to it, vote with your...uh....vote. I don't think we're going to need a ton of tutor capability personally. I'd be happy with Eladamri's Call and Woodland Bellower, and I probably should've suggested one of those. My turn came up over the weekend and Broodlord was front of mind.

[aliciaofthevast]

I'd support the big bear tutor and eladamri's call! I just want bellower because it's a cute bear anyway so maaayyybbbeeeee that's my next pick 👀

I'm all in on diabolic intent as well!