[Deck Tech] Help me Improve My Commander Deck!

DrSeaMonster
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Post by DrSeaMonster » 2 years ago

Any tips for a Omnath, Locus of the Roil deck?
Abzan aligned, Timmy/Johnny with a Vorthos activated ability.

Commander decks: Karador. Riku. Savra. Vorosh. Teysa Karlov. Kenrith. Kaalia, Zenith Seeker.
Balthor the Defiled. Radha, Heir to Keld. Nath. Saheeli, the Gifted. Zurgo Helmsmasher.
Samut, Voice of Dissent. Grimgrin. Ertai, the Corrupted. Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. Elsha.
Glissa, the Traitor. Chainer, Nightmare Adept. Obosh. Nethroi.

Oathbreaker: Ral, Storm Conduit/Teleportal.

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Post by Hawk » 2 years ago

JoeyB11223 wrote:
2 years ago
Just posted up the list viewtopic.php?f=35&t=798&p=6633#p6633

I enjoy it immensely but my problem as stated in the thread is the start is often either explosive or a total bust (if I don't land enough early ramp to get a mana doubler going or dont draw one of the big creature based draw spells). The other issue with an explosive start though is if I say Traverse the Outlands on practically any of the creatures once they've had a Xenagos boost, it then means all my land ramp become dead draws. Though obviously I dont want to cut too much of that and not draw any.

It clearly isn't very reactive lacking any real targeted removal but tbh this deck is more about trying to flatten people ASAP, I haven't faced too much of a problem there.

As in the thread I think I might need a few early mana rocks, or some other card draw. Cutting wise I think I might have too many additional land a turn cards?
I think you have too much "big ramp" - I count 9 cards that are all about making "more mana", but that cost 5+. That leaves you in an awkward position of having to pick between casting your Commander (or a fat hydra, if you've already cast him), and feeling constrained to one spell per turn, or putting all your eggs in one basket for Mana Reflection or Caged Sun and either dominating if they resolve and stick or just folding if they get nuked and you lose all that tempo. It also seems like you don't have enough lands (only 34) to support that many Exploration effect.

I think you need some cheaper ramp and possibly some early hand smoothing as well as probably another land or two in general - I'd consider dropping Boundless Realms, Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Nissa's Pilgrimage, Journey of Discovery, and Vernal Bloom (which I'd consider the weakest of your big mana enablers) as well as Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Burgeoning (the weakest "extra land per turn" effects) so that you can instead run Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farseek, Sol Ring, Gruul Signet, Talisman of Impulse, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Harmonize, and an additional land to get to 35.

Mage Slayer also seems a bit win-more; I wouldn't blame you for keeping it since it is sweet but you may be better served by yet another mana rock, or something like Oracle of Mul Daya, or another mass-trample enabler like Nylea, God of the Hunt, or some utility like Beast Within or Chaos Warp.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

JoeyB11223 wrote:
2 years ago
Just posted up the list viewtopic.php?f=35&t=798&p=6633#p6633

I enjoy it immensely but my problem as stated in the thread is the start is often either explosive or a total bust (if I don't land enough early ramp to get a mana doubler going or dont draw one of the big creature based draw spells). The other issue with an explosive start though is if I say Traverse the Outlands[card] on practically any of the creatures once they've had a Xenagos boost, it then means all my land ramp become dead draws. Though obviously I dont want to cut too much of that and not draw any.

It clearly isn't very reactive lacking any real targeted removal but tbh this deck is more about trying to flatten people ASAP, I haven't faced too much of a problem there.

As in the thread I think I might need a few early mana rocks, or some other card draw. Cutting wise I think I might have too many additional land a turn cards?

Hawk wrote:
2 years ago

I think you have too much "big ramp" - I count 9 cards that are all about making "more mana", but that cost 5+. That leaves you in an awkward position of having to pick between casting your Commander (or a fat hydra, if you've already cast him), and feeling constrained to one spell per turn, or putting all your eggs in one basket for Mana Reflection or Caged Sun and either dominating if they resolve and stick or just folding if they get nuked and you lose all that tempo. It also seems like you don't have enough lands (only 34) to support that many Exploration effect.

I think you need some cheaper ramp and possibly some early hand smoothing as well as probably another land or two in general - I'd consider dropping [card]Boundless Realms
, Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Nissa's Pilgrimage, Journey of Discovery, and Vernal Bloom (which I'd consider the weakest of your big mana enablers) as well as Azusa, Lost but Seeking and Burgeoning (the weakest "extra land per turn" effects) so that you can instead run Sakura-Tribe Elder, Farseek, Sol Ring, Gruul Signet, Talisman of Impulse, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Harmonize, and an additional land to get to 35.

Mage Slayer also seems a bit win-more; I wouldn't blame you for keeping it since it is sweet but you may be better served by yet another mana rock, or something like Oracle of Mul Daya, or another mass-trample enabler like Nylea, God of the Hunt, or some utility like Beast Within or Chaos Warp.
For the most part I agree with this advice, but I would never cut nissa's pilgrimage in this deck. the 3 CMC +1 card ramp spells are amazing with a 5 CMC commander and far better than most 2 CMC ramp options.

Adding a bunch of 2 CMC ramp is often the right thing to do but when your commander costs 5 and you want to always cast him early, the 3 CMC spells (KR, Cultivate, Pilgrimage) are pure gold.

Something Hawk may be missing about Hydras is how well they respond to huge amounts of mana; so the mana doublers are very good...but I think you may be running a few too many. The mono green ones in particular are pretty bad.

My cutlist would be some combination of the cards below (which I generally think are the worst). Feels like there are better options for trampling to me (overrun Garruk, nylea, etc.) than Brawn. Some of the doublers are a bit derpy expensive (caged sun especially). Thought Vessel just feels like it has no point in this list when you can run crop rotation in its place.
Part of the nature of this kind of deck is that it's going to be explosive - you're basically playing Tron, if you think about it. You're trying to empty your hand putting lands out there and then jam a haymaker hopefully to refuel.

Here's a list of cards I think you should consider finding/adding:
In general I think you need some more early game consistency engines and things that help you draw your mana doubler. I feel like you want exactly one mana doubler most of the time, and having quite the volume you have is in conflict with that -- because you will probably have lots of hands where all you draw is mana and not enough gas. You have a ton of really bomby draw spells which is going to really contribute to the swingy nature of the deck. When you get one and refuel, it's game time. But if you don't, it's rough.

When your general provides neither ramp nor card advantage what you need to do is think about what he provides and skimp on that. You've mostly done that in that you're not really playing lots of useless pump spells and haste enablers. So one reason I would consider cutting Rhythm is because your general provides haste to your newest fattest creature. And the "creatures can't be countered" effect is OK, but not that amazing.

I'm not sure exactly how I would construct this deck but I think the biggest focus I have for you is making sure your early game is smoother by running a pile of cards like Top, Guile, Library, GSZ, etc.

Adding a few creature tutors + Regal Behemoth will likely help you fix some of the consistency of finding doublers issue. People are usually not going to be attacking you so doubling your mana on a creature body is hugely effective. And it adds card draw too.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

DrSeaMonster wrote:
2 years ago
Any tips for a Omnath, Locus of the Roil deck?
I would build Omnath Locus of the Roil almost exactly like I do my Maelstrom wanderer deck. Tons of land drop effects and playing lands off the top.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2383669

In fact I am giving some thought to putting Omnath in this deck and having him be the alternate commander for when I don't wanna be a jerk ;) A few more elementals could get in there I think.

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Post by DrSeaMonster » 2 years ago

pokken wrote:
2 years ago
DrSeaMonster wrote:
2 years ago
Any tips for a Omnath, Locus of the Roil deck?
I would build Omnath Locus of the Roil almost exactly like I do my Maelstrom wanderer deck. Tons of land drop effects and playing lands off the top.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2383669

In fact I am giving some thought to putting Omnath in this deck and having him be the alternate commander for when I don't wanna be a jerk ;) A few more elementals could get in there I think.
So far I've figured out Risen Reef, Omnath, Locus of Rage and Cream of the Crop
Abzan aligned, Timmy/Johnny with a Vorthos activated ability.

Commander decks: Karador. Riku. Savra. Vorosh. Teysa Karlov. Kenrith. Kaalia, Zenith Seeker.
Balthor the Defiled. Radha, Heir to Keld. Nath. Saheeli, the Gifted. Zurgo Helmsmasher.
Samut, Voice of Dissent. Grimgrin. Ertai, the Corrupted. Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. Elsha.
Glissa, the Traitor. Chainer, Nightmare Adept. Obosh. Nethroi.

Oathbreaker: Ral, Storm Conduit/Teleportal.

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Post by GreyDemiGod » 2 years ago

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1129&p=11417#p11417

As the thread title, this is my current deck. I've only just gotten into playing paper magic, so I'm essentially building off of a precon and trying to make it competitive enough to play at the high end of casual. Eventually I'm gonna try to break this deck down into its stats Command-Zone style to better figure if I'm over/under loaded on some stuff. Primary victory goal is one of the various Token Swarm victories my commander can enable. Some of my wishlist (listed below the deck) is about providing more combos and/or alternate win conditions.

Admittedly, I'm new enough to this that I have no idea how to gauge how competitive this is, or will be after upgrades, but it at least looks effective on paper (pun intended)

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

GreyDemiGod wrote:
2 years ago
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1129&p=11417#p11417

As the thread title, this is my current deck. I've only just gotten into playing paper magic, so I'm essentially building off of a precon and trying to make it competitive enough to play at the high end of casual. Eventually I'm gonna try to break this deck down into its stats Command-Zone style to better figure if I'm over/under loaded on some stuff. Primary victory goal is one of the various Token Swarm victories my commander can enable. Some of my wishlist (listed below the deck) is about providing more combos and/or alternate win conditions.

Admittedly, I'm new enough to this that I have no idea how to gauge how competitive this is, or will be after upgrades, but it at least looks effective on paper (pun intended)
I haven't played this commander before myself, but I've seen a few fairly quick decks, and there's some strong strategies that shouldn't cost you a ton.
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

[mention]GreyDemiGod[/mention]
Ah, Brudiclad. I had a list built for him at one point that I eventually scrapped due to EDHD.

If you're building off the precon, the first thing I would look to do is improve the mana acceleration. Brudiclad has a hefty casting cost. Anything you can do to get him into play faster will help improve the consistency, competitiveness, and enjoyment you get from playing your deck. To that end, adding cards like Talisman of Creativity, Worn Powerstone, and Thran Dynamo will all help you in this goal.

If you can, getting the new Dockside Extortionist will do wonders to boost your Token count while also being a pseudo-ritual effect. I know it's hella expensive right now, but maybe you can trade for it?

There are some other token generators that you could consider as well. Saheeli, Sublime Artificer should be fun, especially when you can make a Token a copy of some awesome creature and then use Brudiclad's ability to turn ALL of your Tokens into that super cool Mimic-Token-thing.

Sai, Master Thopterist is another good one that has a lot of synergy with your deck.

Hope that helps!

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Post by GreyDemiGod » 2 years ago

[mention]toctheyounger[/mention] and [mention]benjameenbear[/mention]
Ty both for the suggestions! I've definitely been working on smoothing out the mana acceleration, and rocks are the way to go (I've been narrowing the focus more and more onto artifact shenanigans while still pulling the token tricks)

I've got a 'dream deck' list up now for this one, and it has several of the above suggestions. If I relent on the Artifact/Artificer focus, I'll def be working in Dockside Extortionist, and I'm gonna see if Goblin Welder and/or Scrap Mastery can fit in.
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7046

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Post by DrSeaMonster » 2 years ago

Okay. So. I need advice for my Saheeli, the Gifted deck.

I've got about 8 cards that make 1 toughness creature tokens, plus Saheeli. Two expendable creatures with 1 toughness, a few other things that make larger tokens and a 4 sac outlets.

I've been running Skullclamp.

Is it worth it to keep Skullclamp, or should I swap it for Dockside Extortionist?
Abzan aligned, Timmy/Johnny with a Vorthos activated ability.

Commander decks: Karador. Riku. Savra. Vorosh. Teysa Karlov. Kenrith. Kaalia, Zenith Seeker.
Balthor the Defiled. Radha, Heir to Keld. Nath. Saheeli, the Gifted. Zurgo Helmsmasher.
Samut, Voice of Dissent. Grimgrin. Ertai, the Corrupted. Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. Elsha.
Glissa, the Traitor. Chainer, Nightmare Adept. Obosh. Nethroi.

Oathbreaker: Ral, Storm Conduit/Teleportal.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

The very fact the commander craps fodder would make it worth it to keep it in my mind. The fact you have some amount of extra support is pretty good gravy.

You should look for a cut for the Extortionist elsewhere in the 99, possibly ramp related.
 
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Agreed - they're different metrics. Extortionist ramps the house down, Clamp draws the house down. There's a place for both in the deck somewhere, it's just a case of making sure you have the appropriate levels of ramp/draw in the deck otherwise. I'd keep both and cut something else.
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Post by BOVINE » 2 years ago

I could always use thoughtful comments with my Meren list

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A few questions:
  • Does the deck want Volrath's Stronghold? I have a lot of reanimation
  • Does the deck want Winding Canyons? At 45 creatures I'm wondering if it could help
  • Is Midnight Reaper replaceable in light of the rest of the deck? I feel like with putting cards into the graveyard I'm essentially putting them into my hand. Also, I am already running Grim Haruspex which doesn't replace itself upon death like Midnight Reaper but it doe trigger a scry from Path of Ancestry and it doesn't damage me.
  • I'm thinking about running Bramble Sovereign in place of Nim Deathmantle. Sovereign is more easily recurred than Deathmantle. Deathmantle costs 2 coming in but 4 to use each time. Bramble costs 4 coming in but costs 2 to use each time. There are a lot of things I can do with Bramble that I cannot do with Nim. I'd like some discussion there.
  • I'm also thinking I may not need Greater Good. I'm running Disciple of Bolas and other draw. Altar of Dementia gives me a sac outlet sooner and though not drawing me cards, it puts them in the graveyard which is pretty much hand number 2.
In addition to these questions, I'm open to and seeking feedback about the rest of the list.

Thank you
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Post by Dragonlover » 2 years ago

I'd put the Bramble Sovereign in, it's an easier cost to keep open and let's you double up on all your ETB effects there and then rather than having to jump through hoops to get the recur. You've also got enough recursion that if you want to reuse a dead creature, it's not exactly gonna be tricky.

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Post by MrHadouken » 2 years ago

I need help/feedback on my Niv-Mizzet, Parun deck.
  • My main issue is generally making the deck more consistent in accomplishing a winning position. What cards am I running that are subpar for the theme in question (Which is spellslinging, and burning).
  • The budget for the cards as a whole isn't relevant. However, no single card may cost more than 100usd outside of a fetchland. Force of Will is an exception.
  • It should be around a 6, 7 or 8 our of 10 in power level. This means that pretty much any infinite combo is fine as long as it happens after turn 4, 5 or 6. Also, my playgroup has a limit of 3 tutors per deck (Ramping or adding lands in hand wouldn't count). Fastest deck in the playgroup is Animar, Soul of Elements, and they normally won't go off until after turn 4.
  • While I personally don't mind, my playgroup avoid any Mass Land Destruction/Removal, or any of the higher level Stax cards (Stasis/Winter Orb for example. While Torpor Orb, Cursed Totem or Blood Moon could be fine but trying to avoid them). As long as the deck keeps the theme of drawing, casting spells and burning, it's fine.
Any recommendations and feedback are appreciated and welcome.
Thank you!
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Post by Halphinian » 2 years ago

I have always loved the idea of wizard tribal, so after Commander 2017 was released, I decided to make Inalla, Archmage Ritualist. It was almost entirely unplayable when I first made it, but I went back and changed a few things, and now it is just alright. However, I would like to see this deck live up to its potential, so I came here for advice.

Decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inallllla/?cb=1569376103

The deck is meant to be semi-casual, and I am trying to focus on wizard tribal/etb shenanigans with a good amount of graveyard interaction, but every time I play it, I feel like I spend a good amount of the game doing nothing. I am also trying to keep the price of the deck down, so no Mox Diamonds or Yawgmoth's Wills, please. That said, all suggestions are welcome!

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Halphinian wrote:
2 years ago
I have always loved the idea of wizard tribal, so after Commander 2017 was released, I decided to make Inalla, Archmage Ritualist. It was almost entirely unplayable when I first made it, but I went back and changed a few things, and now it is just alright. However, I would like to see this deck live up to its potential, so I came here for advice.

Decklist: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/inallllla/?cb=1569376103

The deck is meant to be semi-casual, and I am trying to focus on wizard tribal/etb shenanigans with a good amount of graveyard interaction, but every time I play it, I feel like I spend a good amount of the game doing nothing. I am also trying to keep the price of the deck down, so no Mox Diamonds or Yawgmoth's Wills, please. That said, all suggestions are welcome!
So it's not what you are doing but you may find some card ideas in my Inalla draw-go control deck.

https://deckbox.org/sets/2197705

I purposefully did not play any of the busted rocks or anything so there were a lot of draw stuff and counters in there. I also made it UB only, so it has deeper cards in both colors than you usually see in Inalla. Probably the coolest handful of cards I played I didn't see others play:
Those two cards just did loads of work for me, replacing the very expensive ramp spells and allowing me to play tempo games with the entire table sometimes when I had a stocked grip.

Timestream Navigator is one card I would definitely add as well. It's just insanely value with Inalla, spending 11 (2+1+4+4) mana for two extra turns on one card is hard to pass up, and also goes infinite on accident.

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Post by justdnd » 1 year ago

Hello =)

Could you guys help me cut down my Riku of two Reflections deck down to 100 cards :) ?
The link is https://deckstats.net/decks/136734/1470 ... wth-spiral
I have no real plan of what the deck should do, a lot of goodstuff, bullsh.ittery, extraturns and copy other ppls stuff sounds nice to me
Do u think the ramp, removal, protection et ctera is enough? feel free to make suggestions once it is cut down back to 100. Thanks :D

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Post by DrSeaMonster » 1 year ago

Alright. Vorosh, the Hunter deck. Aggressive. wants to hit hard and reduce life totals as much as possible.

Win with infect if all else fails.

How do we feel about Gorm, the Great and Virtus, the Veiled?
Abzan aligned, Timmy/Johnny with a Vorthos activated ability.

Commander decks: Karador. Riku. Savra. Vorosh. Teysa Karlov. Kenrith. Kaalia, Zenith Seeker.
Balthor the Defiled. Radha, Heir to Keld. Nath. Saheeli, the Gifted. Zurgo Helmsmasher.
Samut, Voice of Dissent. Grimgrin. Ertai, the Corrupted. Nicol Bolas, the Ravager. Elsha.
Glissa, the Traitor. Chainer, Nightmare Adept. Obosh. Nethroi.

Oathbreaker: Ral, Storm Conduit/Teleportal.

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Post by AllIdoisEDH » 1 year ago

I would love for you all to put eyes on my Borborygmos Enraged list. It is my oldest and favorite list, but I am looking to update it a bit and have had a hard time making any changes.

https://www.archidekt.com/decks/76459#Split_the_Earth
I believe I may need a little bit more draw so that I don't run out of gas, but I have a very hard time cutting any cards seeing as I am very attached to the list. I believe it blinds my mind to any possible changes.
There is no budget to changes. If I want a card, I take time to acquire it.
I like my deck to be close to 75%.
No specific theme other than throw lands.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

AllIdoisEDH wrote:
1 year ago
I would love for you all to put eyes on my Borborygmos Enraged list. It is my oldest and favorite list, but I am looking to update it a bit and have had a hard time making any changes.

https://www.archidekt.com/decks/76459#Split_the_Earth
I believe I may need a little bit more draw so that I don't run out of gas, but I have a very hard time cutting any cards seeing as I am very attached to the list. I believe it blinds my mind to any possible changes.
There is no budget to changes. If I want a card, I take time to acquire it.
I like my deck to be close to 75%.
No specific theme other than throw lands.
I will start with a list of cards I do not like and then go from there:

Boseiju, who shelters all just seems meh to me. You don't have that many sorceries/instants you want to fight through and some of them the card can't be used for (the most important being crop rotation and gamble).

snake umbra just seems worse than more ramp most of the time; so many types of removal just dodge it.

Abundance I think is just not a very good card. A outpost siege is liable to do more work drawing cards most of the time, and it's not like you have an easy time finding it to combo it with sylvan library. Half the time I think harmonize is a significant upgrade, but I think you can do better than this.

Knollspine Dragon and Reforge the soul are not my favorite. They're much slower than wheel, and you can probably play a bomb card draw spell like seasons past instead and have it be far more consistent. Or smaller incremental stuff like oakhame adversary and ohran viper or even bedlam revelers type stuff. memory jar falls in the same camp to me.

Rampant growth -- you need to jam all the extra land drop effectsa nd the cards from yard effects. Ramunap excavator, Wayward Swordtooth, mina and denn, new ilysian dryad. I think you would be surprised how often tilling treefolk does the lord's work in this deck tbh.

I do not get rings and bracers; just get more lands in your hand, why bother doubling stuff? Monolith feels out of place too even with the combo.

Where are world shaper and splendid reclamation? And courser of kruphix is great with Azusa and exploration effects.

brass's bounty just feels like not that good to me. You need to have 7 lands before it's good and you could just spend that 7 mana. Not like you have token doublers or anything. boundless realms likely to be better most of the time but neither one is needed.

tunneling geopede just feels like a winmore effect to me. You need to get more cards in your hand not ping people for one or whatever. omnath, locus of rage feels like a more fitting wincon type card.


Oblivion stone is fine, but real hard to find and not really goign to win you the game very often. You might get more mileage out of the great aurora in that slot.

This deck is really close to super fun. I like how bobo controls the board, really fun riff on the lands deck. The thing he is always going to struggle with is generating enough cards and especially finding specific cards. Which makes you inclined to play more land tools and more creature effects.

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Post by AllIdoisEDH » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
AllIdoisEDH wrote:
1 year ago
I would love for you all to put eyes on my Borborygmos Enraged list. It is my oldest and favorite list, but I am looking to update it a bit and have had a hard time making any changes.

https://www.archidekt.com/decks/76459#Split_the_Earth
I believe I may need a little bit more draw so that I don't run out of gas, but I have a very hard time cutting any cards seeing as I am very attached to the list. I believe it blinds my mind to any possible changes.
There is no budget to changes. If I want a card, I take time to acquire it.
I like my deck to be close to 75%.
No specific theme other than throw lands.
I will start with a list of cards I do not like and then go from there:

Boseiju, who shelters all just seems meh to me. You don't have that many sorceries/instants you want to fight through and some of them the card can't be used for (the most important being crop rotation and gamble).

snake umbra just seems worse than more ramp most of the time; so many types of removal just dodge it.

Abundance I think is just not a very good card. A outpost siege is liable to do more work drawing cards most of the time, and it's not like you have an easy time finding it to combo it with sylvan library. Half the time I think harmonize is a significant upgrade, but I think you can do better than this.

Knollspine Dragon and Reforge the soul are not my favorite. They're much slower than wheel, and you can probably play a bomb card draw spell like seasons past instead and have it be far more consistent. Or smaller incremental stuff like oakhame adversary and ohran viper or even bedlam revelers type stuff. memory jar falls in the same camp to me.

Rampant growth -- you need to jam all the extra land drop effects and the cards from yard effects. Ramunap excavator, Wayward Swordtooth, mina and denn, new ilysian dryad. I think you would be surprised how often tilling treefolk does the lord's work in this deck tbh.

I do not get rings and bracers; just get more lands in your hand, why bother doubling stuff? Monolith feels out of place too even with the combo.

Where are world shaper and splendid reclamation? And courser of kruphix is great with Azusa and exploration effects.

brass's bounty just feels like not that good to me. You need to have 7 lands before it's good and you could just spend that 7 mana. Not like you have token doublers or anything. boundless realms likely to be better most of the time but neither one is needed.

tunneling geopede just feels like a winmore effect to me. You need to get more cards in your hand not ping people for one or whatever. omnath, locus of rage feels like a more fitting wincon type card.


Oblivion stone is fine, but real hard to find and not really goign to win you the game very often. You might get more mileage out of the great aurora in that slot.

This deck is really close to super fun. I like how bobo controls the board, really fun riff on the lands deck. The thing he is always going to struggle with is generating enough cards and especially finding specific cards. Which makes you inclined to play more land tools and more creature effects.
Thanks for the Reply

Boseiju - I can understand your point. It really doesn't do anything significant for this list. Time to find something to put in for it.

Snake Umbra - What you don't see about this card is that it both protects Bobo from removal AND draws us a card every time that he deal damage to a player, which is the main target for his discard ability.

Abundance - You make some very good points. The only reason I really have it is for the synergy with Keen Sense/Snake Umbra. Being able to just discard a land and decide that you draw a land to replace it just wins game for the deck. I will have think about this one.

Knollspine Dragon - I'm going to have to disagree on this one. This card will reliably draw enough cards to end the game.

Reforge the Soul - I agree, hard casting this feels bad. The card draw is solid, but we literally only want to cast it for the miracle cost.

Memory Jar - I'm not sure here. I've gotten great utility out of this card. Really gonna have to think about it.

Rampant Growth - I understand the want to play the extra land per turn cards more. I don't think removing this is the correct idea, personally. The early game ramp is needed to jam Bobo out quickly. I do want to find a slot for Mina and Denn and Swordtooth, though.

Worldshaper - I like the card, but not having any sacrifice outlets in the deck makes it feel worse. Also, I really don't feel like using Bobo to bolt it feels really good here, either.

Splendid Reclamation - I really like this card. I do. I'm just not happy with the fact that the cards ETB tapped. We really want these cards in our hand and have very few ways to get them into our hand from the battlefield.

Courser of Kruphix - Might be worth it. Will have to look into it.

Brass's Bounty - I understand that one. It was just a fun card to put into the list that allowed me to keep mana for casting Bobo after he was removed.

Tunneling Geopede - Has performed well in the early game to make the game end quicker. Do you have a recommendation for something in it's place? I tried Omnath in the list, but wasn't very happy.

Oblivion Stone - You know? This card has been in the list since the beginning and I've never considered anything else. I think I will try The Great Aurora.

Cards that I am considering removing:
Boseiju, Who Shelter's All → ?
Abundance → ?
Reforge the Soul → Maybe a Rishkar's Expertise/Return of the Wildspeaker effect?
Brass's Bounty → ?
Oblivion Stone - > The Great Aurora
Illusionist's Bracers → ?
Rings of Brighthearth → ?

Card that I am considering adding:
Harmoize
Outpost Siege
Wayward Swordtooth
Mina and Denn, Wildborn
Courser of Kruphix

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

AllIdoisEDH wrote:
1 year ago

Thanks for the Reply

Snake Umbra - What you don't see about this card is that it both protects Bobo from removal AND draws us a card every time that he deal damage to a player, which is the main target for his discard ability.

<snip> wheel stuff</snip>

Rampant Growth - I understand the want to play the extra land per turn cards more. I don't think removing this is the correct idea, personally. The early game ramp is needed to jam Bobo out quickly. I do want to find a slot for Mina and Denn and Swordtooth, though.

Worldshaper - I like the card, but not having any sacrifice outlets in the deck makes it feel worse. Also, I really don't feel like using Bobo to bolt it feels really good here, either.

Splendid Reclamation - I really like this card. I do. I'm just not happy with the fact that the cards ETB tapped. We really want these cards in our hand and have very few ways to get them into our hand from the battlefield.

Courser of Kruphix - Might be worth it. Will have to look into it.
Yeah I see what snake umbra does, I'm just super not a fan of putting auras on creatures who don't have hexproof mostly. If he gets killed in response you're pretty well blown out. If you regularly can get it on him seems fine. It doesn't protect him from most of the removal I see which is exiling bouncing and edicts. Maybe you're right, the more I think about it that does seem like a synergy worth risking. Lots of times you could just chain through a lot of bolts.

Wheels - I don't like refilling other people's hands, and Memory Jar usually lets them draw removal and forces them to want to use it which is especially icky. I would play more incremental card draw like Oakhame Adversary. Even some looting effects might be Ok in this deck. Wheel I get because it's so efficient, but the others I would pass. Jar is heavily meta dependent. Knollspine dragon is not a card I see surviving to connect with people a lot. I do see the synergy with Bobo, but so does everyone else. IF it works for you that's cool :)

Edit: I somehow conflated knollspine dragon with dragon mage -- nevermind, that is great. :)

Rampant growth -- well at least replace it with nature's lore. That said, I think rampant growt is likely much worse than another extra land drop, or even just a sylvan scrying in this deck most of the time.

world shaper is a 3/3, throw a rock at it (and then get it into play). The synergy of throwing all your lands at people, attacking with world shaper, then throwing one last land at shaper seems very good to me. Much like splendid rec, you use it after you've filled your yard to generate a basically permanent overwhelming mana advantage.

Annnnd if you keep some of the landfall effects you can possibly double dip.

splendid reclamation -- I would think that throwing all your lands at people then splendid rec'ing them would be a pretty good way to make sure you have enough mana to win the game, but I could be wrong there. I think World Shaper is definitely first.

I think that in general if you put 10 lands into play it's pretty hard to lose even if you can't get them back in the yard, but there's no shame in crucible bounce landing yourself. I think playing a gruul turf is probably a good idea.

Oh, I also forgot: The new Nylea's Intervention feels pretty sweet for this deck. I'd definitely try that.
Last edited by pokken 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by AllIdoisEDH » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
AllIdoisEDH wrote:
1 year ago

Thanks for the Reply

Snake Umbra - What you don't see about this card is that it both protects Bobo from removal AND draws us a card every time that he deal damage to a player, which is the main target for his discard ability.

<snip> wheel stuff</snip>

Rampant Growth - I understand the want to play the extra land per turn cards more. I don't think removing this is the correct idea, personally. The early game ramp is needed to jam Bobo out quickly. I do want to find a slot for Mina and Denn and Swordtooth, though.

Worldshaper - I like the card, but not having any sacrifice outlets in the deck makes it feel worse. Also, I really don't feel like using Bobo to bolt it feels really good here, either.

Splendid Reclamation - I really like this card. I do. I'm just not happy with the fact that the cards ETB tapped. We really want these cards in our hand and have very few ways to get them into our hand from the battlefield.

Courser of Kruphix - Might be worth it. Will have to look into it.
Yeah I see what snake umbra does, I'm just super not a fan of putting auras on creatures who don't have hexproof mostly. If he gets killed in response you're pretty well blown out. If you regularly can get it on him seems fine. It doesn't protect him from most of the removal I see which is exiling bouncing and edicts. Maybe you're right, the more I think about it that does seem like a synergy worth risking. Lots of times you could just chain through a lot of bolts.

Wheels - I don't like refilling other people's hands, and Memory Jar usually lets them draw removal and forces them to want to use it which is especially icky. I would play more incremental card draw like Oakhame Adversary. Even some looting effects might be Ok in this deck. Wheel I get because it's so efficient, but the others I would pass. Jar is heavily meta dependent. Knollspine dragon is not a card I see surviving to connect with people a lot. I do see the synergy with Bobo, but so does everyone else. IF it works for you that's cool :)

Rampant growth -- well at least replace it with nature's lore. That said, I think rampant growt is likely much worse than another extra land drop, or even just a sylvan scrying in this deck most of the time.

world shaper is a 3/3, throw a rock at it (and then get it into play). The synergy of throwing all your lands at people, attacking with world shaper, then throwing one last land at shaper seems very good to me. Much like splendid rec, you use it after you've filled your yard to generate a basically permanent overwhelming mana advantage.

Annnnd if you keep some of the landfall effects you can possibly double dip.

splendid reclamation -- I would think that throwing all your lands at people then splendid rec'ing them would be a pretty good way to make sure you have enough mana to win the game, but I could be wrong there. I think World Shaper is definitely first.

I think that in general if you put 10 lands into play it's pretty hard to lose even if you can't get them back in the yard, but there's no shame in crucible bounce landing yourself. I think playing a gruul turf is probably a good idea.

Oh, I also forgot: The new Nylea's Intervention feels pretty sweet for this deck. I'd definitely try that.
Ok get the Nature's Lore switch.

Knollspine isn't for the beating. It's for the ETB. Knock a player down to less than 10 life with lands, cast Knoospine, draw an insane amount of cards and start pitching again.

I see the synergy with World Shaper. I will consider it, but I'm not 100% sold.

Splended Reclamation is very good, but I only really world Storm Cauldron to put those lands back into my hand if they all hit the battlefield.

Definitely interested in Nylea's Intervention. Will look into it.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

AllIdoisEDH wrote:
1 year ago
Knollspine isn't for the beating. It's for the ETB. Knock a player down to less than 10 life with lands, cast Knoospine, draw an insane amount of cards and start pitching again.

I for some reason was thinking knollspine had to connect, had mixed it up with dragon mage. you are 100% right. Good card.

Still a bit pricy but the ability to shoot someone for 21, draw 21 cards and then finish the table is pretty nuts :)

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