Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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gilrad
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Post by gilrad » 1 year ago

Cyberium wrote:
1 year ago
Kavu Enthusiast wrote:
1 year ago
So I've got color pie and color philosophy bones to pick with some of the design a in the past two days:

* The Mardu partner pair's colors and names are really off. The champion of freedom is *white* and the devourer of the free is *red/black*. Freedom is a no brainier red ideal. The champion of the freedom being white, the color maybe least concerned with personal free, feels like they don't know what the colors even are. Rakdos is perhaps the least restrained color, if you wanted something that devoured the free or freedom it would be white black or white blue; also a no brainier. If you've been designing cards for any amount of time and know magic color ideology 101 how is this a mistake you make?
I think the word "Free" is used as a noun here. The girl let people out of the city, so her partner could eat them.

As you said, white isn't the best color for freedom, but it has a certain level of "propaganda" and "manipulation" build into it, especially if you take into account who she befriended with. I'd prefer seeing her as the "white" part of the Mardu tricolor than as a stand alone white.
Also, the fact that her partner can (and likely will if it closes the game) eat her in the end suggests that she may be doing this for idealistic reasons, while the partner is the real manipulator here.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
And as for the cancerous musings, doesn't Drannith Magistrate strike you as such, Dirk?
not really.
The card's giving off heavy "something will happen" vibes, either casting the commander will get altered in the rules or this will get itself banned.
disagree.
Saying it dies to removal is meaningless, so does Prophet of Kruphix.
if prophet lives for a few turns, it can generate insane value. If this lives for a few turns it...maybe delays some opponents...or makes them take different lines. Hardly seems like an insurmountable advantage.

If creatures got rated on the assumption they'd never die, peacekeeper would get banned.
Having the power to lock the rest of the table off their commanders on a two drop seems pretty good. Maybe I'm just overreacting though.
most likely.

Plus it's not even in the commander set.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Surly Badgersaur is hilarious. Turning discarded lands into treasures is also pretty decent, as is repeatable fighting. I imagine it's at its best in a cycling deck, but also really good for any discard-focused deck.

Cryptic Trilobite is.... intriguing. I assume there's some needlessly complicated combo to break it, but at the very least it's a very janky ability-only mana dork. Turning +1/+1 counters into mana is something we've already seen elsewhere (ex: Devoted Druid, Crystalline Crawler) but not at a 2:1 exchange rate.

Slippery Bogbonder is an interesting protection spell. Meanwhile, Vitality Hunter is.... a mono-white Nightmare. Sure.

Souvenir Snatcher is also somewhat fun. Not particularly efficient theft, but potentially repeatable with other mutations.

Not sure if I'd play Twinning Staff in my spellslinger-ish decks. I'll believe it has some combo potential, and I do have a decent number of copy effects in them, but this feels a bit too narrow - I usually only have around 5 or so copy effects, and given that half are one-shots and the others aren't expected to live a full turn cycle, I think this is a bit too win-more. And 7 mana is a lot to copy any of my own spells (given that most spells worth copying are already expensive). Seems nuts in Riku of Two Reflections though.

Dredge the Mire is an interesting take on Sepulchral Primordial. I don't think it's amazing - synergy means you usually want to recur your own creatures - but it's a very efficient rate if you just care about the bodies. Is there a proper term for mass reanimation-lite effects like this, Primordial, and Entreat the Dead? Maybe multi-reanimation? Hmmm....

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folding_music
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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

giggle, I've been so confused all weekend about where people are seeing new cards, cos the Ikoria spoiler thing on the front page wasn't updating. kinda wish the Commander 20 panel had been more prominent x3

ilovesaprolings
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

So... they want us to make a mutate deck, yet they only give use 3 new mutate creatures in C20?
While the cycling deck gets herald of the forgotten and the instant deck gets twinning staff?
Ok...

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Surly Badgersaur is hilarious. Turning discarded lands into treasures is also pretty decent, as is repeatable fighting. I imagine it's at its best in a cycling deck, but also really good for any discard-focused deck.
It's going to be great for wheel decks! Shabraz and brallin approve!
ilovesaprolings wrote:
1 year ago
So... they want us to make a mutate deck, yet they only give use 3 new mutate creatures in C20?
While the cycling deck gets herald of the forgotten and the instant deck gets twinning staff?
Ok...
Spoilers aren't done yet. Patience.

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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Cryptic Trilobite is.... intriguing. I assume there's some needlessly complicated combo to break it, but at the very least it's a very janky ability-only mana dork. Turning +1/+1 counters into mana is something we've already seen elsewhere (ex: Devoted Druid, Crystalline Crawler) but not at a 2:1 exchange rate.
I'm confident there's a needlessly complicated combo to break it, and when I find it, I'll see if I can't ram it into Zedruu.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

WOW, a UB flash lord! Faeries gotta love it!
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Cryptic Trilobite is.... intriguing. I assume there's some needlessly complicated combo to break it, but at the very least it's a very janky ability-only mana dork. Turning +1/+1 counters into mana is something we've already seen elsewhere (ex: Devoted Druid, Crystalline Crawler) but not at a 2:1 exchange rate.
I'm confident there's a needlessly complicated combo to break it, and when I find it, I'll see if I can't ram it into Zedruu.
filigree sages?
clock of omens?
unbender tine
illusionist's bracers + staff of domination?
thousand-year elixir?
voltaic construct?

It's gotta be in there somewhere.

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Ardeyn
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Post by Ardeyn » 1 year ago

Is it just me, or is there no blue "free" spell for when you control a Commander?! We have all the new C 20 cards by now.
That's... disappointing.

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

Wait, there it is. cryptic trilobite + illusionist's bracers + voltaic construct. Pay 1 and tap equipped bug to add 2 counters. Remove 1 counter to untap bug with construct's ability. Rinse and repeat. Arbitrarily huge trilobite and infinite colorless mana for abilities, which means voltaic construct could just untap a rock endlessly for unlimited mana for anything.

Right? @tstorm823 finding a convoluted 4 card combo may be tough.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Blue free spell slipped in the previews, and was only revealed now as part of the image gallery. World, meet Freegate!

(I was actually fearing a straight up counterspell, given how the rest of those shook out, so the fact it's a Negate is honestly not that horrible... still pretty autoinclude though, in most anything Ux that's likely to have its commander out)

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
Blue free spell slipped in the previews, and was only revealed now as part of the image gallery. World, meet Freegate!

(I was actually fearing a straight up counterspell, given how the rest of those shook out, so the fact it's a Negate is honestly not that horrible... still pretty autoinclude though, in most anything Ux that's likely to have its commander out)
I don't know whether to groan or sigh...

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
Spoilers aren't done yet. Patience.
Spoiler for the whole sultai decklist are done and incredibly no new mutate cards came out last minute.
We literally just got the good green card, the bad black card and the overcosted blue card. No other mutate enabler or support. Shame.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
1 year ago
MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
Spoilers aren't done yet. Patience.
Spoiler for the whole sultai decklist are done and incredibly no new mutate cards came out last minute.
We literally just got the good green card, the bad black card and the overcosted blue card. No other mutate enabler or support. Shame.
I get ya. I guess they just assumed everyone's going to upgrade precons with cards from IKO ASAP, so they sell more packs this way?

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I honestly do not understand how wizards can simultaneously hate blue and somehow cater to it -- any time there's a cycle of stuff lately blue gets the best one (in EDH)

mystic confluence - best
fierce guardianship - best
mystic sanctuary - best
castle vantress - close but I guess green is probly better in EDH, maybe black. But still very playable.

There were some other ones but mystic sanctuary is the one that really took my breath away. Like...gingerbread cabin or mystic sanctuary :P

That card is gonna be an instant CEDH staple for sure - people sometimes play negate as is and this is way better than negate most of the time.

The annoying part about these new free cards is that they really put downward pressure on CEDH commander selection. If you wanted to force people to play Thrasios, Triton Hero because he comes out early enough to enable all the freebies... mission accomplished I guess. And force partners/5c decks so they have more access to the free spells - of which 3 are CEDH playable (black blue red).

Of course, CEDH is not the focus, just something I noticed that I find annoying :)

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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 year ago

Looks like the manabase for these isn't half bad. Tangos, Odyssey lands, and enemy pains

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

IKO sure gives a lot of support to mutate. I like to see that in a mechanic. Like...almost too much support. That's the right amount for me.
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
I get ya. I guess they just assumed everyone's going to upgrade precons with cards from IKO ASAP, so they sell more packs this way?
Yeah but there won't be enough cards to make a commander deck. Mutate cards are balanced for standard/limited and so have high mutate cost (there is no 1-cost mutate, 2 2-cost mutate and 4 3-cost mutate, counting all colors). You can't make a working deck if your curve is so unbalanced.
Also commander was the chance some weird mutate cards like "at the beginning of your upkeep target creature mutates" or "the first creature spell you cast during your turn has mutate" or crazy mutate triggers like "create a 8/8 kraken token". Instead nothing.
The green is really good
The blue one is overocosted. Should have been a 2/3 for 3 and mutate 2 or 3. Right now is just competing with a lot of other 4-5 drops.
The black one is so terrible i don't even know how they could print it. It cost a lot and don't let you any color of mana the cast the exiled cards. I mean, really?
They really dropped the ball with mutate and i'm really sad. I wanted to build 1 if not 2 mutate decks.
Serenade wrote:
1 year ago
IKO sure gives a lot of support to mutate. I like to see that in a mechanic. Like...almost too much support. That's the right amount for me.
No sorry but limited fillers and french vanillas efficient for standard won't turn mutate into a strategy playable in EDH. it's too weak to removals.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Most cards are playable in EDH. I just like to have a base of cards in all colors. I'm sure we'll be back here soon enough, too.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
1 year ago
limited fillers and french vanillas efficient for standard won't turn mutate into a strategy playable in EDH. it's too weak to removals.
I was in this boat for a few days, and voiced my concerns in a conversation with a friend when I saw the new one mana removal spell. Turns out I was looking at mutate wrong - notice how all the mutate abilities actually do something once they go off. You take your average Wood Elves, they ETB'd and got their thing done. Now you mutate Illuna onto it. Then you swing and add Sea-Dasher Octopus for draw. At this point the three-card amalgam perishes somehow. You're down three cards, but it's not like you lost a swinger and two auras. You got three copies of Illuna's ability off, plus drew a card off the Octopus. Not too shabby, in all honesty. It's a different sort of value engine. That said, running interaction to keep it around is still encouraged :P

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

Serenade wrote:
1 year ago
I'm sure we'll be back here soon enough, too.
I hope so. Ikoria looks really interesting and i think it can give to commander way more thing.

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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
Wait, there it is. cryptic trilobite + illusionist's bracers + voltaic construct. Pay 1 and tap equipped bug to add 2 counters. Remove 1 counter to untap bug with construct's ability. Rinse and repeat. Arbitrarily huge trilobite and infinite colorless mana for abilities, which means voltaic construct could just untap a rock endlessly for unlimited mana for anything.

Right? tstorm823 finding a convoluted 4 card combo may be tough.
Already have one up in Zedruu's thread. Brainstorming for more.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 year ago

Does anyone know the best place to see the full decklists with visual spoilers once they are all revealed? Will nexus have something?

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

MeowZeDung wrote:
1 year ago
Does anyone know the best place to see the full decklists with visual spoilers once they are all revealed? Will nexus have something?
It looks like MTGGoldfish is putting things together, have two of them up so far: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/fu ... -decklists

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