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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago

Mutate is actually kind of great as a mechanic the more I think about it, because even stuff that looks potentially obnoxious on first blush - biollante, for example - doesn't do anything unless it successfully mutates, which means you're essentially relying on an aura resolving. Which means any color with targeted creature removal - so all of them - have the ability to stop it, and stop it with extreme prejudice since it'll usually be a 2-for-1. I like mechanics that are reasonable to interact with.
Base on the reveal video, creature you cast with mutate cost actually becomes a creature when its intended target dies, because mutate is a "creature" spell. So technically you can cast some mutate creature for cheap by targeting a creature you own, then sacrifice the target for something else useful, then the mutator just enters the battlefield under your control. Example: Cloudpiercer.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
Serenade wrote:
1 year ago
Oh, thank goodness. Just OG Tamiyo and a bigger setup to break that then.
To be fair though, good luck hitting that emblem. I never have and I played her regularly for quite some time.
I've seen precisely 3 of that emblem happen. One was a planeschase game where the place gave a free Tamiyo like turn 2. The other two were me and another player both being controlly, and we both emblemed a Tamiyo the same time around the table and just played the game out with equal Tamiyo powers.
Why am I not surprised it's you that's seen it?

Seriously though, with that emblem, I'm glad she's one of the original class of Walkers that tick up really slowly. Anyone who lets that emblem into play deserve a sound beating - and that's precisely what they'll get.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Cyberium wrote:
1 year ago
Base on the reveal video, creature you cast with mutate cost actually becomes a creature when its intended target dies, because mutate is a "creature" spell. So technically you can cast some mutate creature for cheap by targeting a creature you own, then sacrifice the target for something else useful, then the mutator just enters the battlefield under your control. Example: Cloudpiercer.
Fair enough. I'm just being wrong all over the place. Although I think most of the mutate creatures are pretty lackluster if they don't get to trigger their mutate ability, so it's not a technical 2-for-1 but it's still a pretty big blowout, especially with the dudes with a higher mutate cost than their cmc.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

kogla, the titan ape + hidden herbalists + aluren/panharmonicon/??? = infinite etbs. altar of the brood = win?

Yeah ok pretty jank but I thought it was interesting that hidden herbalists might suddenly be semi-playable.
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Kogla, the Titan Ape looks fantastic for my Samut deck - creature removal, artifact/enchantment removal, and a way to protect my creatures from removal (I have a lot of humans). I don't believe I have any easy combos with it, but Krosan Restorer + a mana doubler + threshold works.

Also amusingly, it would finally give me justification to swap out Argothian Elder for Ley Weaver.

Biollante looks like complete nonsense. A mass reanimation spell in the command zone seems.... very powerful, even if you can only get a bunch of small things. Might finally inspire me to make an Abzan deck.

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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

I didn't grow up watching Kaiju films, so no major hype from me there.

At first shake, Mutate seems just a bit... yeah. I dunno. Not grabbing me as a mechanic.

The face Commanders from C20 are not particularly interesting either. I sorta like Gavi and Jirinda, but at the same don't think I would actually build them IRL.

That being said, Primal Empathy just dropped as a reveal, seems like a decent roleplayer, and Kogla, the Titan Ape also seems good (Kolga would have sounded cooler IMO though). Requisite mention of E-Witness, BTW.
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Post by gilrad » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Biollante looks like complete nonsense. A mass reanimation spell in the command zone seems.... very powerful, even if you can only get a bunch of small things. Might finally inspire me to make an Abzan deck.
I think Nethroi, Apex of Death might be one of those cards that doesn't work all that well in practice: It's a very powerful effect that relies entirely on public zones, requires a creature in play not being removed in response, and costs 7 mana. I foresee lots of people responding to "mutate on the stack" with a thorough look through the graveyard, publicly announcing to the table the game-winning shenanigans, then the player sandbagging a path to exile with the intention to tax-out the muldrotha, the gravetide player begrudgingly killing the mutate-targeted saproling token leaving the Nethroi player with naught but a 5/5 vigilance lifelink for his seven mana.

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Post by Atraxian » 1 year ago

For what I can see, it seems (to me at least) that they designed this set mechanics having Arena in mind, rather than paper magic.

Keyword counters - they add board complexity that becomes exponentially higher the higher the kind of counters. In paper not everyone will use the 2-face counters and they can literally cover up an entire card if stacked too much on it or might never be enough for your deck, especially if you go White-Weenie + Luminous Broodmoth
On Arena they are trivial to put on cards without having issues of board state representation or interface cluttering.

Mutate - needlessly clunky on paper. Mutating a couple creatures into one-another is not a big deal, but with the potential of having an exceedingly high stack of mutations, managing the card might become a pain, especially if you add auras, equipments and counters on top of that. Not to mention scummy people who might hide some of the mutations "by mistake".
Again, on arena you will just have a single creature with a big rules-box

Compaion - I can already hear the calls of "JUDGE! I want you to verify that my opponent can have that creature as a companion!" or "What? Didn't I tell you that I run this as a companion? How silly of me. Now let me take it out from my binder and put it into play." (yes, I know that for tournaments you are supposed to put it into your sideboard)

I even doubt they spend the time to see if the mechanics they designed can be handily used in a paper environment...
If that is the way they are going with design, I'm pretty concerned.
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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

staring at Colossification and giggling. I just cannot play seven-cost cards in my Siona deck but I still really really want to. I could never cast Eldrazi Conscription either, sigh. I guess these are the sorts of cards you put mythmake or replenish into play in an occasional game and the rest of the time you resent them living in your hand.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Atraxian wrote:
1 year ago
Compaion - I can already hear the calls of "JUDGE! I want you to verify that my opponent can have that creature as a companion!" or "What? Didn't I tell you that I run this as a companion? How silly of me. Now let me take it out from my binder and put it into play." (yes, I know that for tournaments you are supposed to put it into your sideboard)
I think you're overstating the issue on this one.

Nobody calls a judge to verify that their opponent is only running 4x of a card in their deck. It's basically the same thing. The only time it might come up is in limited, when you could easily have a companion in the SB but not be able to cast it. But in practice it'll probably be almost impossible to use the companions in limited.

If your opponent hasn't told you they have a companion, then they're SOL. No question about that whatsoever. Although I'm sure there'll be some ruined games for forgetful people who play them and don't realize they forgot to reveal them until too late.

Anyway, you have to reveal the companion right away. So if you try to do a sneaky and sideboard into some cards that don't match in between rounds, you'd have to re-up on revealing your companion, and if you choose to do that, all the cards you boarded into become uncastable without revealing that you cheated so...
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

I really don't know if i should build Otrimi, Brokkos or "Biollante".... i want the mutatest mutate deck!

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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Atraxian wrote:
1 year ago
Mutate - needlessly clunky on paper. Mutating a couple creatures into one-another is not a big deal, but with the potential of having an exceedingly high stack of mutations, managing the card might become a pain, especially if you add auras, equipments and counters on top of that. Not to mention scummy people who might hide some of the mutations "by mistake".
Again, on arena you will just have a single creature with a big rules-box
Augment in Unstable was fun, intuitive, and easy to track in paper. Mutate is like 75% the same thing. Keeping track of multiple mutations is almost no different from keeping track of multiple auras or equipment that grant abilities, except you never have to do power and toughness math. Ability counters are likely to have some painful memory issues, I think you'll be surprised how easy it's going to be to play with mutate.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

It occurs to me, after bashing the playability of all these companions for their massive deckbuilding restrictions, that I've built a deck that fulfills not one, but two of them completely accidentally! 98 land thrasios + Bruse :laugh: Since most of them ignore lands, there's a good chance more will fit there too! I might have to rebuild that one and try them out for a laugh. Gotta hope my opponents hit on Gyruda, doom of depths though, because my only hit is dryad arbor. Lol.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Btw, at this point I think it's highly likely that the cycle mentioned in the teaser will end up being a new cycle of ultimatums, given that this looks to be a wedge-focused set. Kinda curious how they turn out. Honestly the old cycle, despite being big splashy sorceries, is kind of garbage in commander these days. I don't think any of them are very good anymore.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

Isn't Matt Tabak on the RC or something? Just read the mechanics article and mutate soudns like it could be interesting with tokens,same with keyword counters and companion just seems like another set of deck-building rules or a rules-enforced theme.
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Post by Stapler » 1 year ago

This might just end up being my favourite set ever, both for limited and EDH. Cycling is one of my favourite mechanics, Mutate provides interesting decisions in terms of how and when to cast your creatures and provides some serious risk vs reward - having mechanics being pure value-filled upside all the time like Adventures is tiring - and Companion has already inspired me to build a mono-Evens Sidisi, Brood Tyrant deck with Gyruda, Doom of Depths, and I'm eagerly awaiting the rest of the cycle.

Ability counters are a bit of a miss. I think they add too much complexity for the gameplay they're enabling, but they're not the end of the world. Funny that before yesterday, based on the hints and teases we'd been given, I thought this mechanic would win the gold medal for craziest, wackiest, and most complex mechanic of the set, not given a pity bronze, only ahead of cycling.

Having Godzilla monsters as playable cards is really amazing too. I've only consumed Godzilla and Godzilla-adjacent content (like Pacific Rim) in bits and pieces, but Wizards did this in such a great way that I'm tempted to learn more. I'm usually fairly resistant to marketing, but they got me.
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
It occurs to me, after bashing the playability of all these companions for their massive deckbuilding restrictions, that I've built a deck that fulfills not one, but two of them completely accidentally! 98 land thrasios + Bruse :laugh: Since most of them ignore lands, there's a good chance more will fit there too! I might have to rebuild that one and try them out for a laugh. Gotta hope my opponents hit on Gyruda, doom of depths though, because my only hit is dryad arbor. Lol.
Actually, Companions still need to adhere to the rules of colour identity, so your non-B deck can't play Gyruda or Imori (or Keruga for that matter since Companions count commander CMCs and Thrasios is a 2). Gyruda actually can't be played in any partner combination because there are no even B partners.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Its way too early to really make sweeping thoughts on Ikoria but..... from what I am seeing so far I am not a fan of how the cards feel like forced power timmy cards. What I mean by that is its a lot of straightforward stats so far. I guess we will see what we get yet to come but I hope this isn't an indication of what the set is going to look like.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Stapler wrote:
1 year ago
Actually, Companions still need to adhere to the rules of colour identity, so your non-B deck can't play Gyruda or Imori (or Keruga for that matter since Companions count commander CMCs and Thrasios is a 2). Gyruda actually can't be played in any partner combination because there are no even B partners.
Oops, I spaced and thought the deck was 5c for some reason. Thrasios is definitely the more important of the two, though, so I could always swap Bruse for Tymna to try the (non-gyruda) black companions. And I guess vial smasher for the BR companion if it otherwise fits...although she's pretty freaking terrible in an all land deck :laugh:
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Its way too early to really make sweeping thoughts on Ikoria but..... from what I am seeing so far I am not a fan of how the cards feel like forced power timmy cards. What I mean by that is its a lot of straightforward stats so far. I guess we will see what we get yet to come but I hope this isn't an indication of what the set is going to look like.
Idk, I think being able to mutate onto specific targets could add some interesting possibilities strategically that go way deeper than just fat stats. People have mentioned mutating onto cephalid constable...that's some pretty gross tech right there.
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Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 1 year ago

I am really not okay with the godzilla theme.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

For a moment, I felt cool for figuring out Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Mothra, Supersonic Queen come together to grant non-winged friends death immunity. I also subsequently realised that combining these with any piece of ETB removal, which kind of has to be ran in some modest amount, equals a totalled board. And so any attempt at the Abzan mutato won't get to be The Mike and Mothra Show as hoped for :P
 
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Deck is Kill Club
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folding_music
trelasarra main
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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

I really wanna see what lands we're meant to run all this three colour stuff with; to be honest I still look at Tarkir and scratch my head. the colour density here seems just as tough.

guess this is why I am two tone for life giggle

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

well it's back https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... -zPcawj2eA :party:


Saw Mythos of Snapdax got excited then I saw the RB and it made me slightly sad
The Secret of Commander (EDH)
Sheldon-"The secret of this format is in not breaking it. "

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

More interesting things spoiled.

Drannith Magistrate seems particularly interesting, given that it shuts off casting things from the command zone. That seems.... pretty significant.

Fiend Artisan is a repeatable Green Sun's Zenith, which seems abusable. You do need to pay X, which makes it weaker than Birthing Pod, but it's still a repeatable tutor on a 2-drop.

Mythos of Snapdax is a slightly cheaper Tragic Arrogance. I used to run TA in a bunch of decks, but cut it over time. Hmm...

Yidaro, Wandering Monster is a super cute design, but not really for this format.

Death's Oasis is Scrap Trawler for creatures. Seems like a solid value engine, even if it is harder to use as a combo piece.

Call of the Death-Dweller is mildly interesting as a way to recur two creatures for cheap.

General Kudro of Drannith is interesting as a tribal grave hate option.

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Serenade
UnderKing
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

I like the static ability lords. So far just trample and menace, I think.

Also liking the new Coastal Piracy.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

General Kudro Of Drannith and Dire Tactics. Instant speed, exiling removal and graveyard hate for my Changeling deck? I'm hyped. I run Walker of Secret Ways. I wonder if Kogla, the Titan Ape would be a good replacement or if it is too mana expensive.

Also, I really really really want to put Colossification on Gishath, Sun's Avatar.

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