Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

lyonhaert wrote:
1 year ago
I ain't so sure about using Son of Yawgmoth in Chainer. That's 9 life to activate Chainer without mana. But that just means it puts more pressure on life support within the deck and the need for ramp doesn't lose any pressure. Shenanigans for mana are not hard to come by, so I'm now "wow"ed by him yet.
If you have Chainer + K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth + Gray Merchant of Asphodel with a sacrifice outlet, which is 7 devotion, so you'll probably gain 21 life each time (in 4 player).

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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

KitsuLeif wrote:
1 year ago
Yeah, I initially misread your post, too. After reading your last post now, it's clear to me that you understand the rules and just expressed yourself in a way that was a bit confusing^^°
Yeah I'm guilty of expressing myself poorly quite often. Normally I take a while to write my posts but I was in a rush this morning, so didn't give it a read over to make sure it made sense. I won't make that mistake again!

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Ah. I'm rusty. Had a moment of stupid, thanks for additional clarifications (and obvious rule reminding).
All good! I forgot rules all the time; I actually had to google the commander tax rules earlier to write my post.

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
If you have Chainer + K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth + Gray Merchant of Asphodel with a sacrifice outlet, which is 7 devotion, so you'll probably gain 21 life each time (in 4 player).
This is the sort of stuff that makes K'rrik appealing to me. There's already a Doomsday pile that uses him - although you need to start at 36 life to reach the end of the pile - and there's the possibility of something like Aetherflux Reservoir being used, although that one seems fairly difficult to use effectively.

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lyonhaert
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
lyonhaert wrote:
1 year ago
I ain't so sure about using Son of Yawgmoth in Chainer. That's 9 life to activate Chainer without mana. But that just means it puts more pressure on life support within the deck and the need for ramp doesn't lose any pressure. Shenanigans for mana are not hard to come by, so I'm now "wow"ed by him yet.
If you have Chainer + K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth + Gray Merchant of Asphodel with a sacrifice outlet, which is 7 devotion, so you'll probably gain 21 life each time (in 4 player).
Yeah, some of the staples of life support in mono-black make it easier (Exsanguinate, Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Kokusho, the Evening Star). I guess I'm feeling the pressure there more heavily because I'm operating under challenge restrictions that prohibit using life drain because those 3 (and even Blood Artist) are easy wincons -- the only drain left in my list is Crypt Ghast because it takes an engine to kill the table with Extort. It's no problem for Abhorrent Overlord and Dross Harvester plus a sacrifice outlet to gain the life based on devotion, but I can do that without K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth.

K'rrik is a hell of an enabler for Vilis, Broker of Blood, though. Possibly handy in a black-heavy Marchesa, the Black Rose list.
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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

KitsuLeif wrote:
1 year ago
darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
My Zacama, Primal Calamity deck says thank you for infinite mana with Sanctum of Eternity with a mana doubler.
You don't necessarily need mana doublers when Bounce Lands (Gruul Turf, Selesnya Sanctuary and Boros Garrison) and Temple of the False God work as well. Literally any land that taps for two or more are worth it in Zacama decks anyway. With Temur Sabertooth, Zacama already had the possibility to generate infinite mana.
I've posted my deck list which you can check out in my signature.

I'm actually thinking about Scapeshift as an additional play. The reason it's possible to do that exact play with getting Sanctum of Eternity, Gruul Turf, Selesnya Sanctuary, Boros Garrison, Temple of the False God.
You have to return 3 lands to hand, but with Azusa, Lost but Seeking you can replay them quite quickly.
If I was playing Scapeshift, then I'd also play Exploration and Burgeoning to help with this plan.

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KitsuLeif
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Post by KitsuLeif » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
I've posted my deck list which you can check out in my signature.
Not wanting to disappoint you, but only the picture of Zacama leads to the deck thread. The line that says "Zacama, Primal Calamity" leads to your Will & Rowan thread. Just pointing that out in case you want to fix that^^

The problem I have with Sanctum of Eternity is that you can't use it as a sort of rescue for your Commander on an opponent's turn. If your Commander has an abusable EtB or Cast trigger that's fine (I could probably see it in my Fblthp, the Lost deck) but aside from that... meh.
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Post by JqlGirl » 1 year ago

I'm looking forward to giving K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth a spin in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck. Just the fact that K'rrik allows me to pay life for Alesha's trigger on mana-constrained turns is probably enough to justify the slot, though there are about 25 cards with black costs in my build in addition to Alesha, so yeah. Seems pretty good.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 1 year ago

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is just insane. So, every black (or hybrid) mana is now possibly 2 life? Obvious brokenness with extort is obvious.
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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero spoiled!

Definitely a step up from his previous card, lol. He needs to be exiled or bounced to stop his effect, but is otherwise wrath insurance, protection, and possibly self abuse. Solid general, and so far might be the one I would want to build the most (despite the fact I wasn't playing during the Gerrard / Weatherlight / Original Phyrexia timelines).

Does kinda make me want to research and come up with a Duel (EDH) Deck: Coalition vs Phyrexia pair of decks or something.
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- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

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- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
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- Koma -
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero looks quite respectable, both in the command zone and in the 99. Protects your board from wipes (both your own and others), but he can also function as a combo piece due to the lack of an 'if you do' clause - throw in Gift of Immortality or Angelic Renewal to recur Gerrard before he gets exiled.

Scaretiller is alright, but not amazing. Colorless ramp / land recursion, and can do some interesting things with tap/untap abilities, but a little slow at four mana.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

My meta's Lord Windgrace got excited about the scarecrow for whatever reason. Can't figure out why :P

The fact Gerrard encourages wipe tribal is not the best. Maybe it's just my dislike of wrath crawls.
 
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Ertai Planeswalker
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Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 1 year ago

I'm digging Gerrard. Good boros boardwipe commander. In response to Mookie, do Angelic Renewal and the like actually work with Gerrard? Does the fact he exiles himself not make them "lose sight" of him as he dies?

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero+Anarchist+Hour of Revelation. Wipe again and again. Seems strong.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

That, or just Oblivion Stone/Nevinyrral's Disk for a simpler setup. Fun for the whole family!
 
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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Oh look, another commander that works well with Mirror of Fate for people to not play Mirror of Fate with.
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Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 1 year ago

Scaretiller seems nuts with Retreat to Coralhelm. All you need is a vehicle or something and you can use a fetchland to vomit all your lands onto the table. Add Retreat to Hagra for additional fun. Something for Yarok landfall?

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

Ertai Planeswalker wrote:
1 year ago
Scaretiller seems nuts with Retreat to Coralhelm.
I was just thinking too bad paradox engine just got banned...
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lyonhaert
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

Ertai Planeswalker wrote:
1 year ago
I'm digging Gerrard. Good boros boardwipe commander. In response to Mookie, do Angelic Renewal and the like actually work with Gerrard? Does the fact he exiles himself not make them "lose sight" of him as he dies?
Yes, it works. His ability is a trigger, so just stack the triggers how you want or respond to it.

Edit: Example -- Moldgraf Monstrosity's rulings.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Ertai Planeswalker wrote:
1 year ago
I'm digging Gerrard. Good boros boardwipe commander. In response to Mookie, do Angelic Renewal and the like actually work with Gerrard? Does the fact he exiles himself not make them "lose sight" of him as he dies?

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero+Anarchist+Hour of Revelation. Wipe again and again. Seems strong.
The idea is that when Gerrard dies, two triggers go on the stack - Gerrard's and Angelic Renewal's. Resolve Renewal's, and Gerrard will return to the battlefield as a new object. Then resolve Gerrard's trigger, and other things return. Gerrard's trigger won't exile him from the battlefield because he's a new object (so the attempt to exile 'loses sight' of him).

If you attempt to resolve the triggers in the opposite order, then this won't work - when Gerrard's ability exiles him, Renewal will lose sight and not be able to return him from exile.

Note that if you want to combo with all of this, you'll need some way to return Renewal (or whatever else you're using to recur Gerrard, assuming it isn't a creature / artifact). Gift of Immortality can recur itself each turn, at least.

I'll throw out Mistmoon Griffin and Twilight Shepherd as some other interesting inclusions.

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Post by kraus911 » 1 year ago

Sun Titan already combos with Angelic Renewal and a sac outlet, so seems like a good way to get Renewal back if you play your cards right, so to speak.

You can activate Nim Deathmantle when he hits the bin before exile yeah?

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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

Since Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero returns artifacts in addition to creatures, I think we can take him a step further than Wrath tribal and put him at the head of MLD-Obliterate|8ED tribal. After all, if we're going to be the only one with creatures or artifacts, why not make it so we're also the only one with mana?

In such a deck, I imagine you'd run artifact lands (Ancient Den|MRD and Great Furnace|MRD) so that they're returned with Gerrard's ability and Flagstones of Trokair since it replaces itself, maybe alongside indestructible lands (Cascading Cataracts and Darksteel Citadel) as well. Recursion (Brought Back, Faith's Reward) and ETB land searchers (Kor Cartographer, Solemn Simulacrum, Mycosynth Wellspring) can help break the symmetry further in your favour. You can, of course, still take advantage of normal Wrath effects in conjunction with ETB creatures.

How much further you'd want to take advantage of this, be it through planeswalkers, leveraging that the red Obliterate|8ED-style effects don't hit enchantments, the Vandalblast-Mycosynth Lattice combo (that card is how much now? Dammit Karn) or other ways, is then in the details I guess.
Last edited by Myllior 1 year ago, edited 2 times in total.

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lyonhaert
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

I see Gerrard is well on his way to becoming one of the most hated commanders. LOL :P
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Ertai Planeswalker wrote:
1 year ago
I'm digging Gerrard. Good boros boardwipe commander. In response to Mookie, do Angelic Renewal and the like actually work with Gerrard? Does the fact he exiles himself not make them "lose sight" of him as he dies?

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero+Anarchist+Hour of Revelation. Wipe again and again. Seems strong.
The idea is that when Gerrard dies, two triggers go on the stack - Gerrard's and Angelic Renewal's. Resolve Renewal's, and Gerrard will return to the battlefield as a new object. Then resolve Gerrard's trigger, and other things return. Gerrard's trigger won't exile him from the battlefield because he's a new object (so the attempt to exile 'loses sight' of him).
Good freakin catch! When I first read it, I had sensed it had a similar wording to Academy Rector that forces you to exile it if you want your trigger. Further reading, thanks to this post, confirms otherwise. He's a keeper alright, though perhaps only as commander (could be neat in a Naya or 4c deck with Riftsweeper and Birthing Pod, though).
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Post by Lifeless » 1 year ago

Gerrard is fantastic if only because he's not just a redzone dummy. I'm still dreaming of a blood moon or stranglehold in the command zone, but this makes me happy too.

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero + Angelic Renewal/Gift of Immortality + Auramancer/Griffin Dreamfinder/Lotus-Eye Mystics/Monk Idealist/Restoration Specialist/Ironclad Slayer + sacrifice outlet + enough to cast enchantment again = infinite sacrifices.

"Enough to cast enchantment again" means that you'd need something like Lion's Eye Diamond, Lotus Bloom.
Also Lotus Petal, Commander's Sphere, Heart of Ramos, Tooth of Ramos for colored portions and then things like Su-Chi, Ashnod's Altar, Krark-Clan Ironworks for colorless portions.
There are tons more ways to configure requirements, but you get the idea.

If you have Phyrexian Altar then this would cover both the costs (probably) and be your sacrifice outlet.

Crystal Chimes, Skull of Orm, Codex Shredder are other ways to get Angelic Renewal/Gift of Immortality back but require much more mana investment.

Sun Titan would allow you to not even need mana costs.

Nomad Mythmaker with Lightning Greaves would be another way to get Auras back.


Adarkar Valkyrie + Thornbite Staff I think should allow you to return Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero if you stack it right.

Adarkar Valkyrie + Sparring Mummy/Village Bell-Ringer. Bringing back the untap creatures will allow you to always bring back Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero,

I'm working on a infinite combo thread for MTGNexus, so I can think of tons of stuff that can go infinite with Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero but I better get back to the mines and work on it rather focusing on a single commander :P It's going to takes me months to complete it however, there are a lot of combos in Magic.

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Post by LastConformist » 1 year ago

Is it just me, or is Gerrard just Eggs: The Commander? I suppose there may not be enough eggs in WR to make the deck work, but someone will try. He's definitely a combo card.

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