Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

How does it work with City of Solitude?

Presumably punisher cards like Kaervek the Merciless or Painful Quandary could deter them from casting whichever spell they chose.
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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Congrats to commander, the only format where allure of the unknown has any potential (probably).

Draw 5 for 5 is great, not exactly game-breaking compared to other black options though. But if you can engineer a situation where someone else casting one of your spells is good, though, it could be awesome.

It's not a forced cast, so no 5 lands plus phage, sadly. But if you both want a board wipe, that could work. Unless you're tapped out and you both need the wipe ASAP, idk how you reliably make them pick it though.

Could look at it as a combo card where you set them up to cast an amazing spell to try to turn it into a 2horse race...I can't think of a good way to do that though. I guess if they get ulamog they're motivated to keep you alive?

Or just play it in removal.dec with no threats on board I guess?

Or value.dec where you're ok giving them one good value card if you get the rest. Seems risky though.

Any other thoughts?
I mean it's going to be hard to engineer situations where you have nothing on board for removal, or if you do it's a very specific deck.

The fact that it's sorcery will mean it's harder to setup disruption as well. For example wanting to react to a game winning play by letting your opponent cast removal with it.

My gut feel is that the 5 cmc draw slot for black is already choc with options, and so this doesn't fill much of a void at all.
Liliana's Contract, Necrologia, Promise of Power, Wretched Confluence, Ad Nauseam.
People trying to figure out ways to avoid the effect for opponents is a lot of unnecessary work when it's unlikely you'll play all these anyway at 5 cmc and I would argue that they are all better.

Sure sometimes you might hit a removal spell, in which your opponent does actually use it on another opponent, but more likely they'll just get to develop their board with one of your spells or f**k you up instead :P

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Yeah, considering the best case scenario if you manage to prevent or deter the cast is basically a draw the 5 worst cards of top 6, it's hard to see that being worth it. Especially since kaervek is the only card that can deter or prevent in the CZ, from what I can see. And I really doubt I'd consider this for my kaervek.

I think the only realistic way to make it viable is making the downside a benefit, not cancel it out. Obviously this does require a very specific deck, and it probably isn't a huge benefit anyway tbh.
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

I always wanted Radha 1.0 to have haste. Gallia scratches that itch. Good flavor text. Always like tribal support (though our previous satyr token creators already gave them haste). Gives me hope for more tribal stuff in the set!
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Post by FoxOfWar » 1 year ago

Gallia, if nothing else, seems like she's having fun. Might take quite some work to have a tribal deck for such a small tribe work, but she's certainly the perfect commander for such - cheap, anthem, haste and cards. What's not to love?
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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 year ago

tymarret clls the dead looks good for varina
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago



New Nylea is nice. I think we're getting Purphoros today, too.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Man, Underworld Breach is a sick card design. I like that a lot. I'm almost positive there is a functional combo there with something. I might play that in Maelstrom Wanderer just as a value engine.

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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach synergizes with Mirror of Fate.
how so?
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 year ago

Underworld Breach looks like a fine fair card and a potential combo monster. That's a very cheap engine piece mana-wise, so you can go crazy as long as you have ways to keep feeding the GY. I'd start by looking at something with Brain Freeze and rituals/Lion's Eye Diamond if I were gonig that route.

As is, I'll jam it into Jaya as mono-R planeswalker/enchantment recursion. Looting, wheels, and a spellshaper general should be plenty of fuel to get 2-3 cards late game. Even the floor of recurring one card is an OK rate for 2 mana though it's not ideal.
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach synergizes with Mirror of Fate.
how so?
If you happen to use Breach before Mirror of Fate, you'll likely have a full exile pile to play with.
You can use Breach to recur Mirror of Fate, which effectively builds Doomsday the second time you use Mirror.
And if you're really cheeky, you can cast an instant from graveyard in response to the Mirror of Fate activation to exile Mirror of Fate so that you can pick the mirror with its own ability.

And as an extra extra added bonus, you can enjoy the ability to break the barrier to repeatability that exiling cards from graveyard was meant to be.
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Underworld Breach does have a heavy cost in needing to exile 3 cards for each spell. So I feel that you wouldn't be able to use it the same way as Yawgmoth's Will or Past in Flames as a one turn wonder.
Instead I feel that you could look to use it as grindy renewable recursion given some way to keep returning it to hand.
Say if you had Chain of Vapor in your graveyard you could return it to your hand. If you wanted to cast another spell however that is 6 cards you'd need to exile, so requires a pretty powerful graveyard setup shell.
Or it's more like a Regrowth that you'd cast every 4th turn say to build up more cards in your graveyard.
I guess I'm just trying to point out that people initial reactions will be "combo" card, but I feel like it's more of a long-term reuse card.



I've got two automatic includes for my Yawgmoth, Thran Physician deck already in Woe Strider and Erebos, Bleak-Hearted, so pretty happy about that!

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Post by Isabelle » 1 year ago

I'll be running Underworld Breach in Squee (here) As general recursion goodness. Don't currently have anything to get back PW's, enchantments, or creatures (the options are pretty limited in mono-red) so that is very exciting.

Besides that though it combos really well with Burning Inquiry and Goblin Lore which I'm already running in the deck. If you've got the mana you can cycle through your entire deck with these cards. You might discard what you are looking for but you have Underworld Breach in play so that problem kind of solves itself.

With Cost Reduction, Lore becomes 1 mana. With Cost Reduction + Runaway Steam-kin lore and inquiry are free (inquiry only requires runaway steam-kin which makes it a three card combo - with lore the combo requires four cards) and literally allow you to see your entire deck.

Play Breach in the early game if you need to and in the late game to win.

I'm so excited.

EDIT: hahaha just thought about this more and realized that if your opponent's have less cards in their decks than you, you can mill them out with the burning inquiry combo. Lmao that's a wincon that I didn't ever expect in my mono-red deck.

EDIT part 2: of course you'll have to be careful if they have mana up - might inquiry them into interaction.

EDIT part 3: Also, you can exile Squee as part of your escape costs. Generally you could really only do this effectively once but with cost reduction + Skirk Prospector + Steam-kin Squee is free allowing you to only have to exile two cards from your graveyard each escape trigger. Is this a magical-christmas-land type scenario for relatively low payoff? Yeah probably. But it is worth noting that once you get the Inquiry/Goblin Lore combo you can effectively loot through your whole deck until you find what you are looking for (provided you have the mana/graveyard stock to cast them off of breach).
Last edited by Isabelle 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Actually Underworld Breach does work nicely with Genesis Wave, Kamahl's Druidic Vow, Saheeli's Directive in that they also fuel your graveyard.
So as long as you have cards that return Underworld Breach to hand, you can look to keep recasting these each turn. The neat thing is that they all provide additional mana that same turn, which allows you to cast your return to hand card(s) that might have got milled.
Blink of an Eye, Chain of Vapor, Into the Roil, Kiora's Dismissal, Repeal, Rescue, Void Snare, Winds of Rebuke, all seem like fine candidates for this.

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Post by Isabelle » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
Actually Underworld Breach does work nicely with Genesis Wave, Kamahl's Druidic Vow, Saheeli's Directive in that they also fuel your graveyard.
So as long as you have cards that return Underworld Breach to hand, you can look to keep recasting these each turn. The neat thing is that they all provide additional mana that same turn, which allows you to cast your return to hand card(s) that might have got milled.
Blink of an Eye, Chain of Vapor, Into the Roil, Kiora's Dismissal, Repeal, Rescue, Void Snare, Winds of Rebuke, all seem like fine candidates for this.
Really like where you are going with this. Especially like the idea of bouncing Breach with a cheap card from your graveyard. Also like the fact that this makes non-permenant cards good in a Vow/Wave situation.

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach synergizes with Mirror of Fate.
how so?
If you happen to use Breach before Mirror of Fate, you'll likely have a full exile pile to play with.
You can use Breach to recur Mirror of Fate, which effectively builds Doomsday the second time you use Mirror.
And if you're really cheeky, you can cast an instant from graveyard in response to the Mirror of Fate activation to exile Mirror of Fate so that you can pick the mirror with its own ability.

And as an extra extra added bonus, you can enjoy the ability to break the barrier to repeatability that exiling cards from graveyard was meant to be.
Oh,okay thanks for the explanation, but I thought cards that got exiled were put face down unless otherwise stated,or did i get that mixed up?
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago


how so?
If you happen to use Breach before Mirror of Fate, you'll likely have a full exile pile to play with.
You can use Breach to recur Mirror of Fate, which effectively builds Doomsday the second time you use Mirror.
And if you're really cheeky, you can cast an instant from graveyard in response to the Mirror of Fate activation to exile Mirror of Fate so that you can pick the mirror with its own ability.

And as an extra extra added bonus, you can enjoy the ability to break the barrier to repeatability that exiling cards from graveyard was meant to be.
Oh,okay thanks for the explanation, but I thought cards that got exiled were put face down unless otherwise stated,or did i get that mixed up?
Yeah, they are face up unless otherwise stated I believe.
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75chan
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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

Oooh, new spoilers that actually looks really good and make me want to run them.

Thirst for Meaning: Goes into Bruna. Can be a 3 for 1 there so that's nice. Not really interested in running it anywhere else as for a blue card-draw this isn't very good...
Storm's Fury: As a non-white/black boardwipe this might make it into Atarka or Jhoira, going to try it out for sure. Hitting planeswalkers is really good and 4 damage for 4 mana is a really good ratio is
Nylea, Sharp-Eyed: Goes into Karametra for sure. Mana-sink that lets me gets the card type I care about and cheapens my spells. Duskwatch Recruiter is already really good, and this might be even better.
Underworld Breach: Woooow. This is really good. I have no problem putting this into all my red decks. It's no Yawgwin, but it's in a color that doesn't get Yawgwin's. I'd argue this is better than PiF outside combo decks as it hits all cards and is more mana efficient. Not very good super early, but that's not when you want this card.
Erebos, Bleak-Hearted: Only counting your creatures makes it less of a goodstuff card. I'll try it in a couple decks, but not overly excited about it.
Nyx Lotus: Interesting. ETB tapped hurts. I honestly think that makes me not want to run it, I'm not running Thran Dynamo or Gilded Lotus to begin with, and yes this can be explosive but I think it's too hit-or-miss for me.
Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded: Seems nice. Red instead of green makes it more unqiue. I'll definitely try it out in decks with enough large red creatures.
Ox of Agonas: This seems great in Malfegor or other decks wanting to be hellbent but not really anywhere else.
I swap decks a lot
wr Avacyn with defensive blinking
ur OG Jhoira spellslinger without MLD or eldrazi
and some other stuff that are more or less messy


Best card

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

New cards, huzzah!

Kunoros, Hound of Athreos - interesting hatebear (hatehound?) for the command zone. Those are three pretty solid keywords for a voltron body, although three power is pretty low.
Storm Herald probably just goes in Uril, the Miststalker decks. Powerful effect though - mass reanimation always makes me take a look, even if it is narrow.
Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded is super sweet. Does a more direct Sneak Attack impression than Ilharg, the Raze-Boar. Only lets you toss out red and artifact creatures (so no Eldrazi), but you do get attack triggers. Alternatively, run Painter's Servant.
Ox of Agonas looks a lot like a cross between Treasure Cruise and Bedlam Reveler. Not super powerful, but could be a good role player, and provides a bit of long-term card advantage.
Nyx Lotus is.... intriguing. Less powerful than Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, but a very solid payoff for monocolor, which is nice to see.
Erebos, Bleak-Hearted looks solid. Two life for a card is a little steep (compared to Dark Prophecy), but it also provides a sacrifice outlet. I always give consideration to dual-duty cards. Speaking of which, I still need to test Chittering Witch...
Temple reprints aren't super exciting, but still appreciated.
Underworld Breach reminds me strongly of Past in Flames, so I suspect there is some way to break it. Two mana is really cheap for this effect.
Woe Strider looks quite good. Aristocrats decks rarely need more than one sacrifice outlet, so you can feel fine about not paying the Escape cost. But if your sacrifice outlet gets killed, being able to recur a new one is really nice. Incidental token generation is also appreciated.
Nylea, Sharp-Eyed isn't particularly spicy, but card draw and cost reduction go well together. I can't actually think of another monogreen commander that wants to be playing 50+ creatures - most of them are multicolor (like Animar, Soul of Elements and Nikya of the Old Ways).

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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

75chan wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach: Woooow. This is really good. I have no problem putting this into all my red decks. It's no Yawgwin, but it's in a color that doesn't get Yawgwin's. I'd argue this is better than PiF outside combo decks as it hits all cards and is more mana efficient. Not very good super early, but that's not when you want this card.
Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach reminds me strongly of Past in Flames, so I suspect there is some way to break it. Two mana is really cheap for this effect.
I really want to stress that the exile 3 cards is a HUGE factor and cost. I can see people already ignoring this and thinking that it functions like a Past in Flames.

Providing any sort of graveyard that is going to allow you to cast multiple cards in a Underworld Breach means a very very large initial setup. Short of Traumatize or Hermit Druid or other combo infinite mills, you can't expect to be casting more than 3 cards.
And let's face it a Hermit Druid type self-mill would often be designed for a one-the-spot win anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm big on this card already, but I'd like to steer people away from over valuing it due to an inbuilt way to restrict it being consistent way to get major value from your graveyard.

Let's put it into perspective. A Seasons Past can often net you 6 cards easily. To get the same number of resources from Underworld Breach you'd need 24 cards in your graveyard.
You're not doing these sorts of numbers unless you have dedicated various other cards to put cards into your graveyard. However Seasons Past requires no extra work.

My point is that 9/10 games it's going to be closer to a Regrowth than it is a Past in Flames. And this is more than perfectly fine. A Regrowth in red is amaze-balls.

What if you cast Traumatize targeting yourself with say 84 cards left in library? That'll give you 42 cards in graveyard, and that mean a maximum of 10 cards you can cast.
Certainly you can win with the right cards, but I just want to point out that even with the best setup possible you are limited.
The neat thing however is that you can just keep casting the same card(s). So you can get a lot of mana from just recasting Mana Geyser/Inner Fire/Seething Song or whatever.
The advantage of this is that you can dedicate less cards to trying to generate a storm turn like you do with Past in Flames, where you are stringing together all the ritual effects like Desperate Ritual, Pyretic Ritual, etc.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Man that kraken is surreal, almost like I designed it for myself but if I had it would be a 2/2.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Breach seems terrifying in the right deck. If it's late-game you can just cast LED like 10 times and then cast something absurd.

New legends seem like fine role players but nothing I want in the CZ so far.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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75chan
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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
75chan wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach: Woooow. This is really good. I have no problem putting this into all my red decks. It's no Yawgwin, but it's in a color that doesn't get Yawgwin's. I'd argue this is better than PiF outside combo decks as it hits all cards and is more mana efficient. Not very good super early, but that's not when you want this card.
Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
Underworld Breach reminds me strongly of Past in Flames, so I suspect there is some way to break it. Two mana is really cheap for this effect.
I really want to stress that the exile 3 cards is a HUGE factor and cost. I can see people already ignoring this and thinking that it functions like a Past in Flames.

Providing any sort of graveyard that is going to allow you to cast multiple cards in a Underworld Breach means a very very large initial setup. Short of Traumatize or Hermit Druid or other combo infinite mills, you can't expect to be casting more than 3 cards.
And let's face it a Hermit Druid type self-mill would often be designed for a one-the-spot win anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm big on this card already, but I'd like to steer people away from over valuing it due to an inbuilt way to restrict it being consistent way to get major value from your graveyard.

Let's put it into perspective. A Seasons Past can often net you 6 cards easily. To get the same number of resources from Underworld Breach you'd need 24 cards in your graveyard.
You're not doing these sorts of numbers unless you have dedicated various other cards to put cards into your graveyard. However Seasons Past requires no extra work.

My point is that 9/10 games it's going to be closer to a Regrowth than it is a Past in Flames. And this is more than perfectly fine. A Regrowth in red is amaze-balls.

What if you cast Traumatize targeting yourself with say 84 cards left in library? That'll give you 42 cards in graveyard, and that mean a maximum of 10 cards you can cast.
Certainly you can win with the right cards, but I just want to point out that even with the best setup possible you are limited.
The neat thing however is that you can just keep casting the same card(s). So you can get a lot of mana from just recasting Mana Geyser/Inner Fire/Seething Song or whatever.
The advantage of this is that you can dedicate less cards to trying to generate a storm turn like you do with Past in Flames, where you are stringing together all the ritual effects like Desperate Ritual, Pyretic Ritual, etc.
Sorry, I might have not been clear, but my point is that it's better than PiF at being fair as 4 mana and only instants and sorceries is way worse than YawgWin... PiF isn't great as a fair value card, this is way better. A regrowth in red is already more than I could ever expect from a standard set. This is regrowth in red with the massive upside of being able to get more cards. Yawgmoth's will is regrowth in black with the massive upside of being able to get more cards (the way I run it at least). Past in Flames is a silly Yawgmoth's will imitation that I don't really run in fair decks anymore (I rather run Shreds of Sanity).

If you want to evaluate them as combo cards you'd have to evaluate them differently. But yes, you're right that it's Regrowth with massive upside. Now I just have to wait until I eventually pick up a playset so I can run one in each red deck I have, haha. I hope it won't be expensive (it probably will).
I swap decks a lot
wr Avacyn with defensive blinking
ur OG Jhoira spellslinger without MLD or eldrazi
and some other stuff that are more or less messy


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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Nadir Kraken and Devourer of Memory are both fun looking. Kraken especially for my Horrors of the Deep (HotD) deck. Devourer looks to be a good add to self-mill / dredge decks.

I like Heliod 2.0 more than the original, at least. Might Will find a spot in Elenda.

More edits! Atris, Oracle of Half-Truths is a mildly puzzling one at first glance. Group-hug Dimir? /shrug.

Not new but Idyllic Tutor is finally being reprinted.
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