Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Klothys wasn't one of the original Theros gods we saw, right? I was dropping out of the game for a bit at that point in time. Considering her Design is green, I'm hoping for another cool or / general.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

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- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
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- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
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- Koma -

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Klothys wasn't one of the original Theros gods we saw, right? I was dropping out of the game for a bit at that point in time. Considering her Design is green, I'm hoping for another cool or / general.
I have heard gruul replacing Xenagos.

I think Thassa also got replaced with a new mono blue God?
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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

Well, Underworld Sentinel is just about as conveniently formatted for Olivia, Mobilized for War as possible.
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

tstorm823 wrote:
1 year ago
Well, Underworld Sentinel is just about as conveniently formatted for Olivia, Mobilized for War as possible.
I was thinking Chainer, Nightmare Adept, but it looks fun in any decks with consistent access to haste.

On a similar note, I'm contemplating Treeshaker Chimera for Samut. Not on-theme, but there are not a lot of creatures that draw three.

Deathbellow War Cry seems like jank, but throw in Arcane Adaptation and it becomes somewhat terrifying.

Serpent of Yawning Depths makes me really, really want for them to just batch these creature types. The fact that it gets spelled out on this, Quest for Ula's Temple, and Whelming Wave, sort of bugs me.

Grasping Giant compares sort of poorly to Colossal Whale, but could be interesting if you can give it Lure.

The others look like limited bombs and precon face cards, which is weird, given that they're not in precons or in limited.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

greaaaat, more not-available-in-boosters cards. Now we've got:

-commander precons
-brawl precons
-theme boosters
-BaB
-game night
-starter decks
-supplemental non-standard sets
-am I forgetting anything?

Christ what a pain in the ass.

As far as the actual cards, they're all borderline playable in commander.

Grasping giant is a pretty effective attacker/blocker, but not particularly exciting for any particular strat that I can think of. Giant tribal maybe?

Victory's Envoy is a solid trigger, bit slow maybe. Probably best for counter synergies.

Serpent of the Yawning Depths is...crap. I mean, I'm biased against what I'll call "stupid tribal", but even then it's pretty unexciting. Similar effect is available in better packages.

Sphinx Mindbreaker is a sphinx, so Unesh cares about that (speaking of stupid tribal...). Still, kinda pricey, so you'd really better like that etb, which is kinda counterproductive with a big overpriced fatty attached.

Demon of Loathing is pretty much in the grasping giant camp. Big, decent creature...probably doesn't really go anywhere.

Underworld Sentinel is maybe the most interesting of the cards. Could have some decent synergy with graveyard decks.

Terror of Mount Velus is the card I'm most interested in, for Zirilan of the Claw. Giving the team double strike is a pretty great way to finish off the table, especially if you can untap or double the activation. Otherwise it's a decent card but not super exciting.

Deathbellow War Cry is pretty niche, but minotaur tribal has a decent amount of support I guess, and it seems strong there. Presumably an auto-include in minotaur tribal decks, so I assume I'll never see it played in my lifetime. Could also maybe get used in changeling tribal with reaper king I guess.

Ironscale Hydra is mostly just a decent creature, but it does fit into (ugh stupid tribal) gargos. That said, as a 5-drop, fitting into the curve after a 6-drop doesn't exactly seem amazing. So mostly it looks like another grasping giant - strong standalone but not super synergistic.

Treeshaker Chimera is another one that's fairly interesting. Basically anything that provides haste (xenagod being the obvious choice) seems like a powerful way to play. Reanimation could be good too.

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Post by JoeyB11223 » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
greaaaat, more not-available-in-boosters cards.
...yup. Though you can get them in collectors boosters too!.....yay (and how painful if you do)

I'm interested in Terror of Mount Velus for Dragon Tribal, has competition in the 7cmc slot however I think I will try it in the place of Skyline Despot as I find I don't get to stay monarch much of the time and this is significantly more impactful (and deals twice the damage anyway).

Also Treeshaker Chimera looks to be the best to me especially if you can grant it haste which isn't hard. You can remove multiple utility creatures and then draw 3 for instance, which ain't too shabby.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

JoeyB11223 wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
greaaaat, more not-available-in-boosters cards.
...yup. Though you can get them in collectors boosters too!.....yay (and how painful if you do)

I'm interested in Terror of Mount Velus for Dragon Tribal, has competition in the 7cmc slot however I think I will try it in the place of Skyline Despot as I find I don't get to stay monarch much of the time and this is significantly more impactful (and deals twice the damage anyway).

Also Treeshaker Chimera looks to be the best to me especially if you can grant it haste which isn't hard. You can remove multiple utility creatures and then draw 3 for instance, which ain't too shabby.
Isn't Atarka, World Render better than Terror of Mount Velus?
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Post by MAGUSZANIN » 1 year ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 year ago
Isn't Atarka, World Render better than Terror of Mount Velus?
Redundancy imho. In the kind of board state where one is good, the other will also shine. The difference is that playing both gives you a backup if one gets exiled or whatever before it could really be used. Both should allow you lethal combat damage in only a turn or two, and Atarka is indeed arguably better as a 6 power creature with trample, but redundancy is important in EDH.

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Post by FoilSquared » 1 year ago

Best combo I can think of with Deathbellow War Cry is:

1. Get Morophon, the Boundless, Kragma Warcaller, any other minotaur, and Changeling Titan
2. Changeling Titan champions the random minotaur, say Boros Reckoner.
3. Swing with your three minotaurs, for a total of 23 damage.

Boom, busted combo. Is modern broken again????? Smh
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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 1 year ago

FoilSquared wrote:
1 year ago
Best combo I can think of with Deathbellow War Cry is:

1. Get Morophon, the Boundless, Kragma Warcaller, any other minotaur, and Changeling Titan
2. Changeling Titan champions the random minotaur, say Boros Reckoner.
3. Swing with your three minotaurs, for a total of 23 damage.

Boom, busted combo. Is modern broken again????? Smh
Zedruu is a minotaur, so this card must be busted.
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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

So, I think a valid way to play Deathbellow War Cry is a mono red output effect.

My first thought is to tutor:

Neheb, the Eternal + Fanatic of Mogis - Immediately I see this would be 3 damage to each opponent which likely net generates you mana for the turn and its only 2/4 of the minotaurs.

The other minotaurs that stand out to make this hit harder would be:
Sooooooooo if you tutor for Neheb, the Eternal + Fanatic of Mogis + Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion + Glint-Horn Buccaneer its 7 devotion to red off of JUST that effect meaning you might be outputing 21 damage and making that much mana assuming ZERO other board presence. Beyond this, if you have haste for your creatures this all goes just completely through the roof.
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

Above post is actually really cool and a solid way to play this card. Each of those Minotaurs aren't dead cards by themselves anyway.

Although one of the Neheb's is likely to be your commander, guess that means you get more devotion and another mono-red Minotaur to tutor.
Neheb 1.0 + Fanatic of Mogis + high devotion is solid mana generation for big burn spell as well.

I'm not sure how the filtering works since you don't get Neheb mana until after your attack phase and Glint-Horn has to be attacking. Still cool.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I think the art should have had the minotaur playing a didgeridoo.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
1 year ago
Above post is actually really cool and a solid way to play this card. Each of those Minotaurs aren't dead cards by themselves anyway.

Although one of the Neheb's is likely to be your commander, guess that means you get more devotion and another mono-red Minotaur to tutor.
Neheb 1.0 + Fanatic of Mogis + high devotion is solid mana generation for big burn spell as well.

I'm not sure how the filtering works since you don't get Neheb mana until after your attack phase and Glint-Horn has to be attacking. Still cool.
The commander who actually comes to mind for me is Chainer, Nightmare Adept.

Chainer has natural synergy with Glint-Horn Buccaneer, Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion, and Neheb, the Eternal in that you can use Chainer to give haste from hand. Beyond that filtering is probably relevant with a reanimator commander and if you do cast Deathbellow War Cry, Chainer gives them haste with his passive ability.

Also, if you get a sac outlet you could sac and then chainer rez Fanatic of Mogis post combat from the mana Neheb, the Eternal makes.

The optimal play might look a little like:
I am not saying everyone is dead by this point because its not likely to take full hp opponents out but.... its likely that some players will have lost at least half of their life assuming you could send the attackers somewhere. If you do have a sac outlet though its likely that you loop Fanatic of Mogis off of Chainer for another hit of 8 to each opponent. This card is sort of like insurrection in my mind but instead of relying on opponents to have a board it builds one for you. It requires a little bit of space for the package but its only 5-7 cards. Its not like Taurean Mauler is the worst backup creature ever to run assuming you want a little bit of space for when you draw some of them.

I do however think that this card / package could be solid to test in anything that cares about cycling or granting haste though. The fact that Chainer, Nightmare Adept has access to black tutors and a discard outlet for minotaurs I might not want to have drawn gives it a little more credence in my mind.

EDIT: Xenagos, God of Revels could also possibly be fun. Using Xenagos you could have a 10/9 hasting tramply Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion. I don't think its quite as potent as Chainer but also reasonable. Its also a fast way to be able to attack with Xenagos as it powers him right past his devotion barrier.
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Props to ISB on the minotaur theorycrafting, that's kinda dope. :thumbsup:

Victory's Envoy, Serpent of Yawning Depths, Terror of Mount Velus, and Ironscale Hydra are the ones I would want to try out, from that theme booster set of rares. Envoy seems decent and like she could do some work (or at least be a back-up for +1/+1 counter generation). Serpent would be added to whatever "Horrors of the Deep" deck I try to remake someday, ditto for Terror and a dragon deck, and the Hydra seems like a decent cheap fatty.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

-
- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -

-
- Anafenza -
- Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
-
-

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Klothys, God of Destiny!
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Klothys, God of Destiny 1RG
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God (M)
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to is less than seven, Klothys isn't a creature.
At the beginning of your precombat main phase, exile target card from a graveyard. If it was a land card, add or . Otherwise, you gain 2 life and Klothys deals 2 damage to each opponent.
4/5

Our replacement Gruul God, indeed. Interesting space for , Deathrite Shaman-y. You get sniper grave hate and a bonus effect from her ability, so you want to be able to drop a couple cards off each player's library on your upkeep, methinks. You could also go with the self-mill option for some slow but still bonus ramp while providing a clock once you get to an ideal state of applying pressure. Needs some pondering, but she's interesting.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

-
- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
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-
-
- Koma -

-
- Anafenza -
- Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
-
-

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Reminds me of keranos. Strong ability on a hard to remove permanent, but kinda hard to synergize with anything too much.

Weird to have life drain in RG. I mean it technically fits but it's weird.

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

True. Splinterfright comes to mind if you're going the self mill route, and Shenanigans for some fresh utility.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

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- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
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- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
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-
-
- Koma -

-
- Anafenza -
- Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
-
-

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Reminds me of keranos. Strong ability on a hard to remove permanent, but kinda hard to synergize with anything too much.

Weird to have life drain in RG. I mean it technically fits but it's weird.
There's a Kerano deck that utilizes Orbs to lock down, then just repeatedly dealing damage, perhaps a Temur version could be built with Klothys in mind, using mana dorks for mana while other players stay locked down.

Now I wonder, does Klothys work with extra combat phases? It didn't specify FIRST precombat main phase, but unlike Frontier Siege neither did it say "each".

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Cyberium wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Reminds me of keranos. Strong ability on a hard to remove permanent, but kinda hard to synergize with anything too much.

Weird to have life drain in RG. I mean it technically fits but it's weird.
There's a Kerano deck that utilizes Orbs to lock down, then just repeatedly dealing damage, perhaps a Temur version could be built with Klothys in mind, using mana dorks for mana while other players stay locked down.

Now I wonder, does Klothys work with extra combat phases? It didn't specify FIRST precombat main phase, but unlike Frontier Siege neither did it say "each".
505.1a Only the first main phase of the turn is a precombat main phase. All other main phases are postcombat main phases. This includes the second main phase of a turn in which the combat phase has been skipped. It is also true of a turn in which an effect has caused an additional combat phase and an additional main phase to be created.

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Cyberium wrote:
1 year ago
Now I wonder, does Klothys work with extra combat phases? It didn't specify FIRST precombat main phase, but unlike Frontier Siege neither did it say "each".
505.1a Only the first main phase of the turn is a precombat main phase. All other main phases are postcombat main phases. This includes the second main phase of a turn in which the combat phase has been skipped. It is also true of a turn in which an effect has caused an additional combat phase and an additional main phase to be created.
Thx!

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gilrad
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Post by gilrad » 1 year ago

I see three possible angles with Klothys:

Global pain, Cyberium is already brewing that space;

Guaranteed lifegain - Sorta like a color-opposite Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, there's probably at least a couple of cards like well of lost dreams in R/G that are great if you are guaranteed to gain life;

Guaranteed mana rock - Similar to the Radha, Heir to Keld list that has really strong four-drops due to guaranteed four mana at turn three, this can do similar with five drops on turn four. Red in particular has a healthy list of enchantments that don't directly impact the board to respond to other players' six and seven drops, but do have powerful long-term impact that you want to capitalize as early as possible, like possibility storm.

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Sanity_Eclipse
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

The Binding of the Titans has cool art and helps Klothys out. :thumbsup:
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

-
- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -

-
- Anafenza -
- Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
-
-

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Congrats to commander, the only format where allure of the unknown has any potential (probably).

Draw 5 for 5 is great, not exactly game-breaking compared to other black options though. But if you can engineer a situation where someone else casting one of your spells is good, though, it could be awesome.

It's not a forced cast, so no 5 lands plus phage, sadly. But if you both want a board wipe, that could work. Unless you're tapped out and you both need the wipe ASAP, idk how you reliably make them pick it though.

Could look at it as a combo card where you set them up to cast an amazing spell to try to turn it into a 2horse race...I can't think of a good way to do that though. I guess if they get ulamog they're motivated to keep you alive?

Or just play it in removal.dec with no threats on board I guess?

Or value.dec where you're ok giving them one good value card if you get the rest. Seems risky though.

Any other thoughts?

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Does grand abolisher stop it?

I'm thinking teferi, mage of zhalfir and time raveler also stop it.

If it were an instant I'd probably try figuring out some grixis control stuff for it, but 5 mana sorceries that don't affect the board are not really a thing I do mostly.
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