Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

I like the devil, but that's pretty much it. Asymmetric damage doubling is not very common, even if it's only to the player. Everything else just feels kinda weak, but that's ok. I could play the green one over stronger options in my (very casual) meta.

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 2 years ago

Mookie wrote:
2 years ago
Game Night cards look somewhat interesting. I think the last round is stronger, but these generally have more political implications.

Highcliff Felidar bugs me slightly, mostly because it costs 7 while all the others cost 6. I think that Luminate Primordial is a bit better due to its ability to exile (and also not being locked into the largest thing), but Highcliff not targeting gives it a few interesting properties - ignores hexproof/shroud, and will always it something, even if an opponent blinks/bounces their creature in response.

Sphinx of Enlightenment isn't particularly exciting, but card draw is card draw. Giving an opponent a card gives it a bit of political value.

Calculating Lich speaks to me on a spiritual level with its flavor text. Not particularly powerful, but adds a bit of politicking to black's portfolio - I can't think of any black cards that do this, while there are a few others in other colors (ex: Gahiji, Honored One).

Fiendish Duo doesn't double damage to creatures/planeswalkers, only players, which doesn't make a straight replacement for most damage doublers. Still, it's passable as a budget substitution for Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. Alternatively, Rakdos, the Showstopper?

Earthshaker Giant casts Overrun on ETB. Budget alternative for Craterhoof Behemoth? Also a bit cheaper manawise. Interesting to compare to Pathbreaker Ibex - usually a smaller pump, but no need to attack.
The problem of Felidar being that, some of the most dangerous creatures aren't the biggest ones.

Sphinx heralds similar issue with other ETB draws; it will be blinked like mad.

Lich is fine, though the devils are better due to damage doubling without the need to attack, and if opponent actually attacks with lifelink creatures, devils is even more effective than Lich. And Torbran wants more one sided damage boost.

The giant is boring. It requires a board to start and does nothing more than what many other green creatures could already do.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

I think I agree that only the devil is really viable.

Felidar is ok but honestly I don't know that I've ever run luminate primordial, and this is worse is multiple ways. Wrecking everyone else simultaneously seems cool on paper but in practice there's usually one player I want to hurt more than the others.

Sphinx seems...pretty underwhelming for an etb? Idk I guess it's probably on a par with the FoF sphinx. And looking at other sphinxes, those with similar draw power cost 7. It definitely goes in unesh but otherwise it just looks a bit boring imo.

Lich looks pretty underpowered to me. Black isn't usually go wide either.

Devils seems ok. It's got plusses and minuses compared to other doublers, but the cost is pretty fair and a 5/5 fs is a decent body.

Giant is maybe better than it's being given credit for. Think of it this way, you're paying 1 extra compared to overrun for a 6/6 trample (and it's even easier on fixing). Which is a big body plus it enables recursion. A lot less likely to be a 1-shot ko like craterhoof, but in the right deck it could enable kills over a couple turns with blink.

Devil: B
Giant: C+
Sphinx C-
Felidar: D
Lich: F
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 2 years ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 years ago
Devil: B
Giant: C+
Sphinx C-
Felidar: D
Lich: F
Idk i disagree with some of your assertions
I think the felidar is better than the primordial. It doesn't gain life and goes around hexproof. Its types are also somewhat relevant
The lich is a group slug card. Nothing exceptional, but surely it doesn't require a terrible deck
The giant right now is probably the best overrun creature after craterhoof
The devil are good, in meta angrath's marauders are a thing, this is gonna be better in many situation
The sphinx is the only terrible one imho. Everything else is good or decent, despite not being staples or autoincludes

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

I almost wish the lich was legendary. Gahiji and Edric would high-five it.

I think the "overused" topic showcases why the giant exists.

Devil...might draw some removal. Probably great in Marisi.
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Guys, is there any other effect like C.Lich? The closest I can think of is Hellrider, but that's just your creatures. Anything to really speed up the game?
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Serenade wrote:
2 years ago
Guys, is there any other effect like C.Lich? The closest I can think of is Hellrider, but that's just your creatures. Anything to really speed up the game?
What part of the effect are you looking for? Triggers on attacking an opponent? Ways to incentivize your opponents to attack each other? Attack triggers in black? Or just cards that speed up the game?

As you mentioned, Hellrider triggers on attacking an opponent, as does Brutal Hordechief.

Edric and Gahiji encourage attacking your opponents, as can Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Curse of Disturbance (and friends).

Speeding up the game can be done with Havoc Festival, Fumiko the Lowblood, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Furnace of Rath, and many other cards.

As I mentioned previously, there aren't a lot of preexisting politically-inclined cards in black.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

A permanent that causes damage or life loss when anyone attacks (not just adding power to the attacker)
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

There's Blood Reckoning, but that obviously only applies to attacking you.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Since most cards are designed for 1v1 and hellrider templating is cleaner, probably not.

Wound reflection speeds up the game a lot, as does that demon with the same effect. My preferred "help opponents kill each other" commander is kaervek - I should migrate my deck list over to nexus, but you can sleuth it down on salvation if you want.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 years ago

Apparently someone managed to find Theros: Beyond Death packs at a Walgreens(!?).



It's highly unlikely these are fake because, well, look at them. The return of sagas is neat, and surprising no one, Elspeth is back.
Spoiler
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The Swamp is incredible and will be replacing the basics in Erebos immediately.

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 2 years ago

GloriousGoose wrote:
2 years ago
Apparently someone managed to find Theros: Beyond Death packs at a Walgreens(!?).



It's highly unlikely these are fake because, well, look at them. The return of sagas is neat, and surprising no one, Elspeth is back.
Spoiler
Show
Image
The Swamp is incredible and will be replacing the basics in Erebos immediately.
Another clear violation. I don't enjoy mass leaks like this.

But, to stay on topic: I love how those "lands" look like Pokemon energy cards, and the return of sagas is a plus for all historic decks.

And apparently there are new gods.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Oh, my gosh, these leaked cards are better than almost everything in the original block. Escape is sweet, those legends are good, sagas hooray, so much flash on cheap enchantments, another Fertile Ground variant, the power 4 mechanic is cool, and so many sac-activated abilities on enchantments! Maybe a Femeref Enchantress effect is coming our way? We shall see!

Also...is Angrath the RG god?
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Morganelefay
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Post by Morganelefay » 2 years ago

I don't expect to see any gods beyond the big 5, aside from references and maybe Phenax as he seems to have a bigger role (I expect an Ashiok - Phenax combo as villains next to Heliod).

That said these cards don't really excite me. The flavor on Adonis is cool, the merfolk legend is pretty nifty, but only Hydra's Growth kind of excites me and I have Pir & Toothy.

Those lands though.........
EDH Decks:

Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis - Arise, Lord Hogaak.
Grumgully, the Generous - The wonderful world of Ferngully.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw Cards Tribal.
Pir, Imaginative Rascal & Toothy, Imaginary Friend - Imaginary Superfriends.
Selvala, Explorer Returned - Taxes, Denial and Fatties.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Dinos and Eldrazis, oh my.
Ayara, First of Locthwain - March of the Black Queen.
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh - Chandra Tribal.
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim - Curious Contraptions

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 2 years ago

At first I thought the lands were really cool, but now they aren't "LANDS" they are just floating electric mana symbols in a high contrast black background. Visually appealing, but really a flavor fail for "Lands".

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 2 years ago

Dalakos looks like fun... a pity i can't run him in Syr Gwyn

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 2 years ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
2 years ago
At first I thought the lands were really cool, but now they aren't "LANDS" they are just floating electric mana symbols in a high contrast black background. Visually appealing, but really a flavor fail for "Lands".
I believe they're supposed to represent Nyx? Maybe?
Last edited by TheGildedGoose 2 years ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 2 years ago

Drop Dalakos, auto-equip Inventor's Goggles, START BEATING FACE FOR...three.

Another good general to lead my imaginary mana-rock-Bludgeon Braw deck.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Move over, full-art lands. No-art lands are here! I thought it was a joke for the next Un-set, but they actually look pretty sweet.

More seriously, I'm going to hold off on commenting until things start getting revealed more officially. There are some interesting things though.

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Post by rogerandover » 2 years ago

Nothing that excites me much, but I do like the Omens. They are kinda cute for commons.

Am I the only one that think the lands are really 'off'?

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

I'll hold judgement from a play perspective till I see the whole set. Spoilers are easy to take out of context unless they're like, clearly perfect cards.

The lands are weird, but not displeasing to the eye. I tend to fill my lands out with lands from the home plane of my General for theme tie in coolness. These seem like they'd thematically be cool for maybe my Varina build, where her lore is 'she's from the future'.

They are the pretty but it's a little sad not to see a landscape of some kind. Especially after how gorgeous some of the Eldraine lands are.
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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 2 years ago

Morganelefay wrote:
2 years ago
I don't expect to see any gods beyond the big 5, aside from references and maybe Phenax as he seems to have a bigger role (I expect an Ashiok - Phenax combo as villains next to Heliod).

That said these cards don't really excite me. The flavor on Adonis is cool, the merfolk legend is pretty nifty, but only Hydra's Growth kind of excites me and I have Pir & Toothy.

Those lands though.........
The flavor text hinted a new god, Klethys, who attempts to "mend the fate" of Theros.
PrimevalCommander wrote:
2 years ago
At first I thought the lands were really cool, but now they aren't "LANDS" they are just floating electric mana symbols in a high contrast black background. Visually appealing, but really a flavor fail for "Lands".
I think they represent the Nyx, which is technically where the Gods are, thus a place and a "land". The five mana symbols are cluster of stars.

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

Cyberium wrote:
2 years ago
I think they represent the Nyx, which is technically where the Gods are, thus a place and a "land". The five mana symbols are cluster of stars.
yep, this looks accurate. They look like mana-ensorcelled constellations, which seems relevant and Nyx-ish.
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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 2 years ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
Cyberium wrote:
2 years ago
I think they represent the Nyx, which is technically where the Gods are, thus a place and a "land". The five mana symbols are cluster of stars.
yep, this looks accurate. They look like mana-ensorcelled constellations, which seems relevant and Nyx-ish.
This seems a bit forced. I see random stars in the background, but no symbolism of actual constellations that are organized to form any specific shape. At first glance I thought "HEY POKEMON ENERGY MANA" just like a poster above. My post sounds more passionate than I actually feel, but I think these are almost too generic to not have any landscape at all.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 years ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
2 years ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 years ago
Cyberium wrote:
2 years ago
I think they represent the Nyx, which is technically where the Gods are, thus a place and a "land". The five mana symbols are cluster of stars.
yep, this looks accurate. They look like mana-ensorcelled constellations, which seems relevant and Nyx-ish.
This seems a bit forced. I see random stars in the background, but no symbolism of actual constellations that are organized to form any specific shape. At first glance I thought "HEY POKEMON ENERGY MANA" just like a poster above. My post sounds more passionate than I actually feel, but I think these are almost too generic to not have any landscape at all.
While they're aesthetically pleasing I don't necessarily disagree. It is a bit strange to see lands without...well, land. And being as our beloved format is all about the 'vibe of the thing', I'm not sure I'll use them myself. They're cool but nothing on full art Zendikars, Un's, Amonkhets or Snows, and part of that is because there's actual terrain and art to give you some flavour to savour.
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