Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Sanctum of Eternity looks very interesting - claim back a stolen commander, recur ETB effects, or escape before you cast a boardwipe. Seems like a reasonable option in the utility land slot. Don't think it is worth playing over Homeward Path unless you can abuse it though.

Leadership Vacuum is interesting - better removal than any destroy/exile effect, and in blue. I think I prefer the flexibility of other blue spot removal like Reality Shift, but cantripping is pretty nice.

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is hilarious. Monoblack devotion? You effectively have Channel in the command zone, but only for black mana symbols. Notably, it applies to activated abilities like Pestilence Demon too - could be fun to give that lifelink.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Sheesh, why'd they have to limit Sanctum of Eternity to your turn only? It'd have been a nice safety net, and you'd have to hold mana to keep it as a possibility.
 
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Post by Couver » 1 year ago

Leadership Vacuum is such a hoser for voltron decks. Gets around hexproofing the commander. Will need to run player hexproof.

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

My first thought when I saw what colors the morph commander is, "so much for using Akroma, Angel of Fury"
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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
Sheesh, why'd they have to limit Sanctum of Eternity to your turn only? It'd have been a nice safety net, and you'd have to hold mana to keep it as a possibility.
Probably to keep command beacon strong lol

Joking aside there are commanders that are just busted with ETB triggers like Zacama, Primal Calamity would you want this trick at instant speed I don't think so

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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
Sheesh, why'd they have to limit Sanctum of Eternity to your turn only? It'd have been a nice safety net, and you'd have to hold mana to keep it as a possibility.
As a person that plays Crystal Shard in most of my blue decks, I'll say that being able to bounce your own creatures whenever is an extremely powerful effect, and very annoying to play around - I completely understand why they limited it, instead of making your commander effectively immune to most removal.

If you do want the effect whenever you want, consider Riptide Laboratory.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Sure, let me put it in real quick for all my decks which are part blue and have a wizard at the helm :P I guess that it made sense in play
testing. Kind of like how Gyrus, Waker of Corpses ended up clunkily nerfed into the trash.
 
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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

I'm not the biggest fan of Leadership Vacuum. At least Witchbane Orb and Orbs of Warding exist.

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth? Now that's a card. Turning all black mana symbols in your costs, including those for activated abilities, into Phyrexian mana is the stuff Commander is made of. I'm sure this will be doing all manner of busted things with Chainer, Vilis and Yawgmoth himself, along with who knows what else.
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 year ago

I understand why Sanctum of eternity is limited to your turn, just like I understand why it's commander and not a straight up fixed Karakas. I'm still disappointed about it.

I'm looking forward to taking myself to a dangerous life total on a regular basis with K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth. I appreciate the lifelink there too. There are a lot of quality life payment effects and I don't have the self control to not take myself down to single digits in exchange for minor gameplay benefits at the first opportunity.
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

My Zacama, Primal Calamity deck says thank you for infinite mana with Sanctum of Eternity with a mana doubler.

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth looks pretty abusable. I was already looking for cost reductions for Anje Falkenrath Madness, and so the idea is to use Falkenrath Gorger with a bunch of Vampires and use K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth to pay for the black portion of Madness costs and then use other cards like Urza's Incubator for the colorless portions.
So you just end up casting out your deck. Life gain for the Phyrexian mana would be needed,

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Post by KitsuLeif » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
My Zacama, Primal Calamity deck says thank you for infinite mana with Sanctum of Eternity with a mana doubler.
You don't necessarily need mana doublers when Bounce Lands (Gruul Turf, Selesnya Sanctuary and Boros Garrison) and Temple of the False God work as well. Literally any land that taps for two or more are worth it in Zacama decks anyway. With Temur Sabertooth, Zacama already had the possibility to generate infinite mana.

Also: Makeshift Griselbrand with Vilis, Broker of Blood + K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth? Seems totally fine...
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

KitsuLeif wrote:
1 year ago
Also: Makeshift Griselbrand with Vilis, Broker of Blood + K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth? Seems totally fine...
I mean, you can already do that with anything that lets you pay life without any additional costs.

More interesting: blood celebrant. There's a card that's been on nobody's mind until right now. Costs a lot of life, but you can generate a lot of mana. Same as that ogre from conspiracy, except it's any color (and B CI). Hey, look at that, it combos with Villis too.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Something to keep in mind with this K'rrik feller is that he costs seven by himself. You're 14 life down the gutter before he even breaks even. As such, you'd better be built in a way to make use of his growing lifegain tuckus.
 
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

From a quick search, anti-Vacuum cards include:
Ivory Mask
True Believer
Aegis of the Gods
Imperial Mask - group hug version
Leyline of Sanctity
Spirit of the Hearth
Teyo, the Shieldmage
Sigarda, Heron's Grace
Shalai, Voice of Plenty
Gruul Spellbreaker - conditionally, during your turn
Witchbane Orb
Orbs of Warding

Rules clarification needed, I would assume that the vacuum increases the tax for the next casting of that commander?

Sanctum of Eternity is the good utility land of the release, and K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth looks rather busted, like his father. He's pretty sweet, but looks busted.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
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-
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- Koma -
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- Anafenza -
- Alela - Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
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Post by Couver » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
Something to keep in mind with this K'rrik feller is that he costs seven by himself. You're 14 life down the gutter before he even breaks even. As such, you'd better be built in a way to make use of his growing lifegain tuckus.
Wouldn't you only have to pay 6 life to cast him for 4? I didn't think you could reduce his colourless mana cost by paying life?

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Yeah, and that's four mana you've invested into him and not other things. That's four mana you have to get back via phyrexian (i.e. 8 life) to break even on expenditure. So no matter how you spin it, in what combination of real and phyrexian you cast him, that's 14 life you have to tank to his ability/casting cost to break even mana wise. As such, better get that lifegain online, either via his butt in combat or some other means.
 
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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
From a quick search, anti-Vacuum cards include:
My main issue with the card is that it's designed to get around hexproof on a commander, which is predominantly a white ability, while the answer to it (i.e. player hexproof) is also predominantly white. As a result there's some collateral to non-white Voltron commanders, which is a shame as I think they lead to more interesting builds than white Voltron comanders do.
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Rules clarification needed, I would assume that the vacuum increases the tax for the next casting of that commander?
The vacuum itself does nothing to increase the tax, but since your commander is back in the command zone, you'll need to pay the tax again to recast them. So if you've cast your commander twice from the command zone in a game and it gets Vacuumed, you'll need to pay an additional the next time you cast them.

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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Okay, the general is just being sent back to the zone. Not from destruction or something that triggers the replacement effect and the tax increase, but any previous tax still applies. Thank you for the clarification [mention]Myllior[/mention].

I was going to be rather salty if it did increase the tax, which thankfully it doesn't. It does make you pay any previous tax though, so I'm still sprinkling some flake salt over my dish, so to speak.
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -
-
- Anafenza -
- Alela - Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
- Xyris

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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
I was going to be rather salty if it did increase the tax, which thankfully it doesn't. It does make you pay any previous tax though, so I'm still sprinkling some flake salt over my dish, so to speak.
I think it does increase the tax.

Commander tax is determined by the number of times you've cast your commander from the command zone, regardless of how it got there (comprehensive rule 903.8.).

So, let's say you cast Hope of Ghirapur from the command zone, and then sacrifice it to work its mojo. The next time you cast it, it costs 3. Let's say someone Vacuum's it. Now, since you've cast it from the command zone twice, you need to pay an additional 4, 5 mana total.

It's no different, afaik, than any other way of returning a commander to the command zone (i.e. a player chooses to put it there instead of another zone).

What it does do is breach both creature-hexproof and indestructibility.
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

I ain't so sure about using Son of Yawgmoth in Chainer. That's 9 life to activate Chainer without mana. But that just means it puts more pressure on life support within the deck and the need for ramp doesn't lose any pressure. Shenanigans for mana are not hard to come by, so I'm now "wow"ed by him yet.
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Post by KitsuLeif » 1 year ago

Myllior wrote:
1 year ago
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Rules clarification needed, I would assume that the vacuum increases the tax for the next casting of that commander?
The vacuum itself does nothing to increase the tax, but since your commander is back in the command zone, you'll need to pay the tax again to recast them. So if you've cast your commander twice from the command zone in a game and it gets Vacuumed, you'll need to pay an additional the next time you cast them.
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Okay, the general is just being sent back to the zone. Not from destruction or something that triggers the replacement effect and the tax increase, but any previous tax still applies.

I was going to be rather salty if it did increase the tax, which thankfully it doesn't. It does make you pay any previous tax though, so I'm still sprinkling some flake salt over my dish, so to speak.
Guys, this is basic Commander knowledge, please stop spreading misinformation. Of course you'll have to pay an additional 2 generic to cast your Commander after it gets put back into the Command Zone, no matter how it was put there. There is no such thing as a "replacement effect" that would prevent that:
The basics: you can cast your Commander from the Command Zone. To do so, you pay its mana cost, plus two extra generic mana for each time you've cast your commander so far [from the command zone] this game (this is commonly referred to as the 'Commander Tax').
https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips ... ander-tax/
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

Kerrick isn't what I would call amazing. It looks really exciting on paper, but a simple search query will show that the number of free spells is not incredible. I think the real angle will be seeing what you can play for cheap, rather than free.

I like to think of Kerrick as "very fair monoblack channel".

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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
1 year ago
Okay, the general is just being sent back to the zone. Not from destruction or something that triggers the replacement effect and the tax increase, but any previous tax still applies. Thank you for the clarification Myllior.

I was going to be rather salty if it did increase the tax, which thankfully it doesn't. It does make you pay any previous tax though, so I'm still sprinkling some flake salt over my dish, so to speak.
To clarify what I meant, the commander tax on a commander that has been vacuumed will be more than the previous time it was cast. This is because a commander's tax is based on the number of times it's been cast from the command zone. How the commander got back to the command zone is irrelevant; the moment it's been cast from the command zone, the tax has increased for next time. Sorry for the confusion.

The rule from the official commander forums is,

"Commanders begin the game in the Command Zone. While a Commander is in the command zone, it may be cast, subject to the normal timing restrictions for casting creatures. Its owner must pay {2} for each time it was previously cast from the command zone; this is an additional cost."

KitsuLeif wrote:
1 year ago
Guys, this is basic Commander knowledge, please stop spreading misinformation.
You'll see in the example I gave that I had increased the commander tax appropriately. When I said "...you'll need to pay the tax again..." I was separating the concept of the tax itself from its magnitude, which I can see wasn't clear. I'll be clearer in future.

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Post by KitsuLeif » 1 year ago

Myllior wrote:
1 year ago
You'll see in the example I gave that I had increased the commander tax appropriately. When I said "...you'll need to pay the tax again..." I was separating the concept of the tax itself from its magnitude, which I can see wasn't clear. I'll be clearer in future.
Yeah, I initially misread your post, too. After reading your last post now, it's clear to me that you understand the rules and just expressed yourself in a way that was a bit confusing^^°
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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Ah. I'm rusty. Had a moment of stupid, thanks for additional clarifications (and obvious rule reminding).
- Lyra -

- Naru Meha -

- Liliana -

- Chandra - Lovisa -

- Nissa - Titania -

- Lavinia X -
- Elenda -
- Yuriko -
- Jhoira-G - Saheeli -
-
- Glissa - Lathril - Meren -
-
-
-
- Koma -
-
- Anafenza -
- Alela - Sen Triplets -
- Narset -
- Inalla -
- Sidisi -
-
- Kaalia-V -
-
- Xyris

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