Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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RedCheese
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Post by RedCheese » 1 week ago

Ludevic feels kinda weak to any one else? Too many hoops to replicate a worse version of Body Double

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

Solgurk, the Overslime is sweet. I don't like simic decks on principle, but this is too cool with loam to ignore.

Edit: It seems that Ludevic will never be good enough in the eyes of the gen, pop., but I think both incarnations of him to date are pretty rad. I do hate that they abandoned any semblance of his former abilities (and the color red) on the new card though; it further proves that partner Ludevic was a lazy hat-tip to Innistrad rather than a true depiction of the character as described in the fiction, but he still came out fine imho.
Last edited by TheAmericanSpirit 1 week ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

I think Ludevic, Necrogenius is more interesting than he's being given credit for. The first, easy to miss part is that his front half enables his ability. A cheap 2 drop commander that mills every turn enables some neat strategies by itself in blue black. That said, the obvious selling point is the transformation itself. And that's where I think people are under selling the card. This isn't a standard reanimation, it's one where you scale the creature (hopefully up) to a 5/5 at minimum, with the ability to pump extra mana/creatures into it to be even larger. So it's more of a combo of The Mimeoplasm and a 1 time use Volrath, the Shapestealer than a bad body double. You want to pick creatures where a 5/5 body is a significant upgrade, such as Cephalid Constable, and go from there. He seems like an interesting transformation card, all told.

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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

Turning ludevic into a Consecrated Sphinx costs so little and being a repeated mill engine himself is nice. I don't love the as a sorcery speed rider but, very good.

He probably enables some ridiculous Razaketh, the Foulblooded lines as well :P

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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 week ago

Lier seems like another boring "when it sticks, I win" generals, but without counterspells, blue's protection suite isn't great, so I don't think he'll be overdominant.

Slogurk is at least creatively designed, though I wish he were GR instead of GU. He could go in interesting directions, but I think he'll mostly be another UG ramp general, but much harder to kill than the others.

Ludevic seems like a weird Mimeoplasm sans green. Still, he actually feels like Ludevic and advances the characterization, so that's nice.

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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 1 week ago

I feel it's better to treat Ludevic as a creature with a scaling Monstrosity/Adapt effect. My own preference for the exiled card would either be Silumgar, the Drifting Death or Darksteel Myr, but an excellent and hilarious Standard-legal target would be Acererak the Archlich.

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Lifeless
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Post by Lifeless » 1 week ago

Just try to stop me from making Slogurk, the Overslime \ Hermit Druid combo.

Lier is one of those cards that seems like it will be really annoying but in reality isn't going to be any better than a lot of the other mono-blue options. I will admit that outside of Teferi this type of effect is rarely blue, so that could turn the tide in her favor.

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Post by Gamazson » 1 week ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 week ago
Did...did they just print Life from the Loam as a commander?

Congrats, maro, you finally got me to be excited about a ooze. Slogurk, the Overslime seems really interesting and probably not broken.

First thoughts:
Play him, cycle 3 lands, bounce him, repeat.
Play some super land-heavy deck with some dredgers and grow him insanely huge
Wait, no, do both at once so you cycle the lands to dredge the dredgers and make him even huger
Why in the world is this simic!? Lord Windgrace is making a pouty face. lol

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Post by Venedrex » 1 week ago

I really want to experiment with a deck in Standard using both the new Teferi and Treasure Vault.

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Post by Mookie » 1 week ago

Lots of legends today, it feels. I'm starting to have mixed feelings re: so many legendary creatures in every set, but that's a topic for another day. Innistrad doesn't have a 'legendary matters' theme, so why are there so many random legends?
As for non-legends...
  • Morbid Opportunist looks quite solid - triggers on your opponents' creatures and tokens, which gives it some significant advantages over Grim Haruspex. It does only trigger once per turn, but it's easy to work around that by just sacrificing stuff on your opponents' turns. Looks like a strong option for aristocrats.
  • Ritual of Oblivion is interesting. Sorcery speed and requiring a sacrifice are pretty hefty downsides, but flashback is strong.
  • Teferi, Who Slows the Sunset looks a bit clunky, but Seedborn Muse + card draw as an ultimate is pretty strong. Throw in some flash and you're effectively taking a bunch of extra turns.
  • Sigardian Savior is yet another card that makes me want to build a Return to the Ranks package. It's also just good value (even if it isn't blink-friendly).
  • Outland Liberator looks solid. A mana extra over Caustic Caterpillar, but if you can flip it, it goes up in value significantly.
  • Sigarda's Splendor is white card draw for life gain, with some incidental life gain tacked on. Alternatively, it's a reason for your opponents to attack you every turn.
  • Suspicious Stowaway is just Looter il-Kor on the front side, but the back side is outright card advantage. Seems worth consideration if you can get it flipped consistently.
  • Moonsilver Key is... interesting. Expedition Map is better for fetching lands, but 'artifacts with mana abilities' is a pretty broad category - you could fetch Sol Ring, but you could also fetch Chromatic Orrery, The Celestus, or another build-around.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 week ago

Gashnaw wrote:
1 week ago
Lier is just gross. It shuts down half.of control. Which is something blue does best.

Lier feels like an izzet.storm deck lover.
If they can't counter your spells, though, you can just kill her with removal. Overall I think that part of the ability is a big downside. The flashback part is obviously nuts but mono-blue is pretty restrictive, I think she'll be more of a 99 card.
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Post by Legend » 1 week ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 week ago
Gashnaw wrote:
1 week ago
Lier is just gross. It shuts down half.of control. Which is something blue does best.

Lier feels like an izzet.storm deck lover.
If they can't counter your spells, though, you can just kill her with removal. Overall I think that part of the ability is a big downside. The flashback part is obviously nuts but mono-blue is pretty restrictive, I think she'll be more of a 99 card.
I could see it getting banned in 1v1 though.
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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 1 week ago

I like that Moonsilver Key can also find artifacts with mana doubling abilities, such as Extraplanar Lens, Caged Sun and Doubling Cube. Makes it a very useful card for mono-coloured and colourless decks, if they decide to run these effects.

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Post by Mookie » 1 week ago

Legend wrote:
1 week ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 week ago
Gashnaw wrote:
1 week ago
Lier is just gross. It shuts down half.of control. Which is something blue does best.

Lier feels like an izzet.storm deck lover.
If they can't counter your spells, though, you can just kill her with removal. Overall I think that part of the ability is a big downside. The flashback part is obviously nuts but mono-blue is pretty restrictive, I think she'll be more of a 99 card.
I could see it getting banned in 1v1 though.
From a pure card advantage perspective, Lier, Disciple of the Drowned lets you pay twice as much mana to cast your spells a second time. Coincidentally, that's exactly the same effect as Krark, the Thumbless, who has the additional upsides of both being cheaper and having partner to grant additional colors. Lier is, admittedly, a stronger effect than Krark's - variance is awkward, and there are some spells that do very little when copied - but I would be shocked if it were to be banned.

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Post by Legend » 1 week ago

Mookie wrote:
1 week ago
Legend wrote:
1 week ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 week ago


If they can't counter your spells, though, you can just kill her with removal. Overall I think that part of the ability is a big downside. The flashback part is obviously nuts but mono-blue is pretty restrictive, I think she'll be more of a 99 card.
I could see it getting banned in 1v1 though.
From a pure card advantage perspective, Lier, Disciple of the Drowned lets you pay twice as much mana to cast your spells a second time. Coincidentally, that's exactly the same effect as Krark, the Thumbless, who has the additional upsides of both being cheaper and having partner to grant additional colors. Lier is, admittedly, a stronger effect than Krark's - variance is awkward, and there are some spells that do very little when copied - but I would be shocked if it were to be banned.
Nevermind. I completely misread it. I thought Lier couldn't be countered.
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Post by Serenade » 1 week ago

So Dreadhound seems like Syr Konrad's pick of the litter. It's not fully the same effect, but the demon dog is close and has thicc stats.
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Post by Gashnaw » 1 week ago

Myllior wrote:
1 week ago
I like that Moonsilver Key can also find artifacts with mana doubling abilities, such as Extraplanar Lens, Caged Sun and Doubling Cube. Makes it a very useful card for mono-coloured and colourless decks, if they decide to run these effects.
No it can't, not sure about Doubling cube but the other two do not have a mana ability.

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

Gashnaw wrote:
1 week ago
Myllior wrote:
1 week ago
I like that Moonsilver Key can also find artifacts with mana doubling abilities, such as Extraplanar Lens, Caged Sun and Doubling Cube. Makes it a very useful card for mono-coloured and colourless decks, if they decide to run these effects.
No it can't, not sure about Doubling cube but the other two do not have a mana ability.
That is incorrect, all three of those cards have a mana ability. While only Doubling Cube has a traditional activated mana ability, triggered abilities such as the ones on Caged Sun and similar doubling effects can be mana abilities as well, provided they trigger off the activation of a mana ability and provide mana.

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Post by bobthefunny » 1 week ago

Gashnaw wrote:
1 week ago
Myllior wrote:
1 week ago
I like that Moonsilver Key can also find artifacts with mana doubling abilities, such as Extraplanar Lens, Caged Sun and Doubling Cube. Makes it a very useful card for mono-coloured and colourless decks, if they decide to run these effects.
No it can't, not sure about Doubling cube but the other two do not have a mana ability.
Abilities are mana abilities if:
  • It is an activated ability that produces mana, does not target, and is not a loyalty ability.
  • It's a triggered ability that produces mana that triggers from an activated mana ability or from mana being added to the mana pool, does not target.
605.1. Some activated abilities and some triggered abilities are mana abilities, which are subject to special rules. Only abilities that meet either of the following two sets of criteria are mana abilities, regardless of what other effects they may generate or what timing restrictions (such as "Activate only as an instant") they may have.

605.1b A triggered ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn't require a target (see rule 115.6), it triggers from the activation or resolution of an activated mana ability (see rule 605.1a) or from mana being added to a player's mana pool, and it could add mana to a player's mana pool when it resolves.
Caged Sun's triggered ability can be a mana ability. Doubling Cube IS a mana ability.
rulings wrote:6/1/2011 Caged Sun's triggered ability is a mana ability, which means the ability doesn't use the stack and can't be responded to.
rulings wrote:12/1/2004 Doubling Cube's ability is a mana ability.
This will be a case though where we'll need to see the full rules update, as there are situations in which the triggered ability from caged sun is NOT a mana ability. Those are rare exceptions though, and until shown otherwise, I would say the current rules favor being able to find Caged Sun, etc.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 week ago

Do you think that fateful absence will be playable?

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Post by Hawk » 1 week ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
1 week ago
Do you think that fateful absence will be playable?
Maybe I'm overhyped but my tentative lean is that it is now White's third best removal spell coming in behind Swords to Plowshares (one mana less, doesn't hit 'walkers but does exile and the 'drawback' is neglible) and Generous Gift (one mana more but hits all permanent types, and gives arguably a less hefty kickback) but ahead of Path to Exile, Condemn, Oblation, Declaration in Stone, Darksteel Mutation, Winds of Abandon, and anything else in the sphere. 1W for instant speed unconditional deletion of any creature or walker is an amazing rate; a clue is not nothing but ultimately you're giving them a card they have to pay for and that seems incredible.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

the more I think about it, the less hype I am about old stickyfingers and slogurk, and the more hype I become about Florian, Voldaren Scion. Maybe it's that I've been hankering for a rakdos deck lately and that prosper just didn't tickle me, but I really like his ability to provide card selection over raw CA. Something as simple as a Loyal Subordinate lets you look through the top 9(!) and take your pick. Sure, you have to play it now now now, but in an aggressive deck that's not a huge drawback.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 week ago

Jerren, Corrupted Bishop seems like a pretty weak payoff considering the risk and difficulty of getting to 13 life - it's not much better than Yawgmoth, Thran Physician and it costs 9 instead of 4, yeesh. I guess you'd need to build for front side and maybe occasionally flip it if the situation dictates.

Bit of a bummer, I like having a fun mini-goal to achieve.

Fateful Absence is obviously very good.
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Post by Hawk » 1 week ago

Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor is not exactly the text I wanted for Curses Tribal, but to be honest I don't know what I wanted. I was hoping for it in Mardu or Jund, I suppose, for better enchantress support, but Grixis will have to do. This is the first Commander I've felt compelled to build although at first blush she seems like she's gonna be so so slow. Will have to tinker around with her for sure.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 week ago

Hawk wrote:
1 week ago
Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor is not exactly the text I wanted for Curses Tribal, but to be honest I don't know what I wanted. I was hoping for it in Mardu or Jund, I suppose, for better enchantress support, but Grixis will have to do. This is the first Commander I've felt compelled to build although at first blush she seems like she's gonna be so so slow. Will have to tinker around with her for sure.
Paradox Haze is a thing, but otherwise this is cool and neat, and maybe just not the strongest thing ever. That's ok, I love the flavor. That's half of the fun with Innistrad.
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