Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

Yeah, Happily sees no play. There are a ton of easier alternate win cons, even in the same colour.

Mystic Sanctuary though. That's...uh, gonna see some play.
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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

I think Happily Ever After is a kick-me sign.

Also, it's different from Coalition Victory in that it's an upkeep trigger, while CV is right away.

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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

That is going to be a pain the arse to win with, but I'll take a shot at it. I was putting Scuttlemutt into Golos soon probably anyway.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

That flying hatebear is good friends with Kinjalli's Sunwing. Does it replace Hushwing Gryff? Nah, gotta run them both...in my Radiant haters deck. =P
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

if you manage to win with Happily Ever After then you earned the win
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 year ago

Hushbringer is perfect for some of my decks and a death sentence for others. Definitely powerful and I appreciate that it's symmetrical.

I was not expecting a strictly better Tormenting Voice in Thrill of Possibility. Voice has seen a lot of reprints, so I figured that's where they wanted that effect to be. I run that from time to time, so Thrill is an easy upgrade or addition depending on the deck.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Nearing the end of spoiler season. Some things I'm excited for, some things I'm cold on. I'll need to start analyzing / compiling a list of my wants soon....

Dwarven Mine looks reasonable - a free(ish) token for any heavy-red deck can be pretty valuable, depending on what you're going to use it for - Skullclamp is an obvious pick, but even just cashing it in as a chump blocker can be worth it.

Hushbringer looks miserable. A powerful hate card that I suspect I'll run into frequently. Lifelink and flying make it a lot more attractive than Tocatli Honor Guard, since it carries equipment really well. ....I really dislike hatebear decks.

Mystic Sanctuary looks quite good also. I like it more than Witch's Cottage because instants/sorceries tend to be higher-impact and harder to recur than creatures, plus blue has more card draw to make up for the card disadvantage.

Happily Ever After is fine. You need a lot of things for it to go off, which makes it pretty easy to interact with. Drawing a card (and gaining life) for everyone is interesting though. Apparently this is white's 'minor new thing' to help it with card flow. I'm a little disappointed by it, but that's partially because I assumed symmetric small draw was already in white's color pie (see: Truce and Temporary Truce). White has some ways to limit card draw, so it might be possible to make it asymmetric, but it's hard for me to say whether letting opponents draw cards is a net positive or net negative.

Return of the Wildspeaker is an interesting Overrun // Soul's Majesty effect. Instant speed makes it pretty spicy.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

I wish Hushbringer was a knight, would have been perfect for Syr Gwyn

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RedCheese
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Post by RedCheese » 1 year ago

Throne of Eldraine full gallary is up. Not the msot powerfull sets but still have some goodies to get. My list won't contain Brawl exclusive cards.

Mystic Sanctuary : The best of the common lands. Recurring Sorceries/instants isn't very common and having it attached to a land makes it mutch better, even if it puts on top of the library.

The Cauldron of Eternity : Cheap reaniamtion is great. Its not only higher because of its downside wich prevents sac shenanigans. Grenzo decks can use this card better then most.

The Magic Mirror : In a sperllsligner deck its better then phyrexian Arena. Its low on the list because only specific decks can manage to put this card earlly in the game

Emry, Lurker of the Loch : I love some artifact shenanigans and this merfolk its great for recursion.

Harmonious Archon : Very powerful ability, Probably a shoe in token decks?

Hushbringer : Hatebears and important to contain other shenanigans and this one is one of the more pwoers ones.

Return of the Wildspeaker : Magesty Soul just got replaced. I love these green draw cards and this one can be used as a win condition. I love it.

Fabled Passage : I use evolving wilds and this is better than that. Hopefully ends up cheaper then Prosmatic Vista

The Great Henge : Holy Jesus. This card is amazing and want it in all my green decks.

The Castles : These only managed to overcome The Great Henge because they are lands and have solid abilities.

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Skello496
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Post by Skello496 » 1 year ago

Guys, aside from the normal cards that are coming out in Throne, can I just point out that the basics are freaking Gorgeous?
EDH:
Krenko, Goblin Stampeder
Nylea, God of Hydra Counters G
Odric, the playtesting w
Wort, Boggart Aristocrats rb
Feather, Catrips Redeemed wr
Grand Arbiter Augustin’s Sphinxes WU
Ghired, The Tokened gwr

Oathbreaker:
Ashiok, Mill Master UB (near completion)

Casual 60:
Minotaur Army RB

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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, but you're absolutely right. That John Avon island might even be able to unseat my bird-head Islands in Kefnet, although it's hard to beat matching basics, commander and playmat.

Speaking of OG Kefnet, Mystic Sanctuary is a must have. Being able to bounce the land with Kefnet can let you loop Cyclonic Rifts or extra turn spells, if that's your thing. It even counts as an Island itself, so it doesn't take away from Engulf the Shore|SOI or Vedalken Shackles|5DN by replacing a basic.

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Skello496
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Post by Skello496 » 1 year ago

Right? The Howard Lyon plains reminds me of a Van Gogh and I love it.
EDH:
Krenko, Goblin Stampeder
Nylea, God of Hydra Counters G
Odric, the playtesting w
Wort, Boggart Aristocrats rb
Feather, Catrips Redeemed wr
Grand Arbiter Augustin’s Sphinxes WU
Ghired, The Tokened gwr

Oathbreaker:
Ashiok, Mill Master UB (near completion)

Casual 60:
Minotaur Army RB

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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Nothing can replace my full art snows (he says, having just replaced his full art Bolas horn basics). These provide a certain function I don't get from anything else.
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Post by KMA_Again » 1 year ago

This set is interesting but no "must-haves" for me other than Mystic Sanctuary for a few U/x/x decks. Deafening Silence is great for creature and hate decks too, though more as a protection against control. I like the overall flavor of it, and Emry I like because of her art.

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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 1 year ago

As for happly ever after

If you build your deck right you can get it to work

I say if you do the jank alt win tribal it fits

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Skello496
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Post by Skello496 » 1 year ago

I mean, there are multiple ways to make it work, it just isn't easy, which is exactly the point. It's a clever design, because they know EDH players in particular love alternate win cons, but they don't want it to be easy.
EDH:
Krenko, Goblin Stampeder
Nylea, God of Hydra Counters G
Odric, the playtesting w
Wort, Boggart Aristocrats rb
Feather, Catrips Redeemed wr
Grand Arbiter Augustin’s Sphinxes WU
Ghired, The Tokened gwr

Oathbreaker:
Ashiok, Mill Master UB (near completion)

Casual 60:
Minotaur Army RB

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

It would be great design, if lab man, test of endurance, and felidar sovereign didn't exist lol. As-is it just seems impossible compared to the other alt wincons.

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

So, as someone who didn't get to prerelease, any feedback on playtesting from Eldraine sealed? I know there's things I've got my eye on, but it's nice to get some RL feedback from early testing (however well that translates between sealed and EDH :smirk: )
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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
So, as someone who didn't get to prerelease, any feedback on playtesting from Eldraine sealed? I know there's things I've got my eye on, but it's nice to get some RL feedback from early testing (however well that translates between sealed and EDH :smirk: )
I only made it to one pre release but I did take first in a 20ish person event using a UB control deck chalked full of removal spells (no joke I had like 9 removal effects.

1) Adventures look like they are going to be terrible in commander. The reason I say this is that they are really hard to abuse. The value from them is challanging to reload and generally will require you to bounce back to hand or recover from grave to topdeck to reload adventures. I guess Volrath's Stronghold might still be ok with these but as a whole my impression is that adventure cards are far less impressive with some abuse mechanics due to how hard they are to abuse. Most of the creature sides of the adventure creatures also kind of suck to boot when it comes to commander playability.

2) Food was kind of cool in this limited. It probably won't transition to commander well at all butttttttttttt, I still think it has some potential when it comes to some random things like Warp World, Indomitable Creativity, Goblin Welder, etc. Essentially, I think that gaining 3 life is going to be bad in commander off of food but I think that the value of having things that act as permanents could be a little underrated with some of the effects. Its probably going to be niche at best but I think its something to not overlook. I actually was quite pleased with Witch's Oven in a little bit of arena brawl playtesting.

I didn't get one but Once Upon a Time looks cool but when its played not on curve its way less impressive than its current price tag wants you to believe. I think its the sort of card that is going to get its best value out of a 4x copy format where you probably build some sort of combo like deck. Not sure how it will go in standard but its price tag currently is DEFINITELY due to modern. If you pick up a copy its probably fine but my point is more along the lines that I wouldn't pay what the going rate is right now for it in commander. I still think its a fine card, but its price tag seems a bit high for me for commander. I did pick up a copy in a pack so maybe I test it somewhere but I honestly don't even really know.
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Post by bobthefunny » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
So, as someone who didn't get to prerelease, any feedback on playtesting from Eldraine sealed? I know there's things I've got my eye on, but it's nice to get some RL feedback from early testing (however well that translates between sealed and EDH :smirk: )
I only got to one prerelease as well, but it was quite fun. It got to the point where we were actually dictating a story as we played - "My Giant goes on an adventure stomping on your Bear token." - and - "My Youthful Knight was actually On Alert and saw it coming a mile away!"

It was incredibly fun. I piloted a Green White weenie deck to high success. I quite enjoyed it.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
1) Adventures look like they are going to be terrible in commander. The reason I say this is that they are really hard to abuse. The value from them is challanging to reload and generally will require you to bounce back to hand or recover from grave to topdeck to reload adventures. I guess Volrath's Stronghold might still be ok with these but as a whole my impression is that adventure cards are far less impressive with some abuse mechanics due to how hard they are to abuse. Most of the creature sides of the adventure creatures also kind of suck to boot when it comes to commander playability.
Adventures were very powerful in limited. It gave you two uses of the card, essentially giving you a "draw a card" effect on the card adventure half. That said - some were less powerful than others, and were mostly a modal variant. Flaxen Intruder giving an extra 1/2 after a seven mana play isn't huge, but having the option to drop an early body, but still be a good draw late game is nice. Silverflame squire was fantastic, Tuinvale Treefolk was great as it naturally curved.

I didn't have one, but Lovestruck Beast was apparently quite destructive. Likewise, Beanstalk Giant was quite strong against me, again, due to the curve, though the rampant growth was not as powerful in limited.

For Commander - yeah, I agree with ISB. Trying to force extra value from them isn't going to be a great strategy. As well, Commander doesn't have the same card advantage limitations that Limited has, so they lose power there on that as well. And of course, most of them simply don't have relevant bodies for Commander. I can see a few of them getting some use though. Beanstalk Giant is similar to Krosan Tusker, in that it can be an early game ramp, or a decent late game beater. In fact, it could easily replace the tusker in most lists that do still run it - better ramp, and better reanimation body (though no draw, and doesn't put itself into GY after 1st use). While it's not going to be top level staple, I would not be upset to see it in a list. I could see a few of the White ones being ok in an Equipment shell. Mostly just because they can be an extra set of Sword holders post-wrath Silverflame Squire and Ardenvale Tactician are probably 'ok'. Likewise, I wouldn't be upset to see Realm-Cloaked Giant in a list as a wrath option. It's somewhat reminiscent of Phyrexian Rebirth or something of that nature, allowing you an easy body post-wrath. Bonecrusher Giant seems acceptable, especially with the anti-prevention clause. Embereth Shieldbreaker seems more than fine as well.

Murderous Rider is probably the only one to get a staple status, mostly because the spell is great on its own, even without any bonuses.

As I said... trying to force extra value from them isn't going to be a great strategy. However, if you happen to be able to use extra cheap bodies (Equipment/Sac themes) and happen to already have some abilities that could incidentally get them back, such as a black/X deck that happens to already be running Phyrexian Reclamation - I could see some of the utility spells being ok includes.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I did 4 prereleases - after a disappointing 2-1-1 at the first one, I made a clean sweep of the other 3 to end at a total of 14-1-1 for the weekend. My winning decks were ub control, ru tempo, and wb tempo.

Agree that adventures are mostly weak in commander- they also have a strike against them by many being counterable with removal or a sac outlet, so you never get the chance to cast the creature.

As far as positive things, syr Konrad was grooosssss. Incredibly hard to race in limited. Obviously mono black has its limitations but I could see him being pretty powerful in the cz, and maybe even better in the 99.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

Thanks guys. Sounds like play pretty much followed my expectations. As cool as adventures are, it's going to be tough eking any sort of recursion out of them. I have my eye on one for Varina, Foulmire Knight. That's about it. Purely because it's cheap zombie on curve or cheap draw, whatever the case might be.

Syr Konrad the Grim, AKA Captain trigger finger. Anytime someone blinks they lose life. He's gonna be a staple in any sort of life loss/attrition build.
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Game Night cards look somewhat interesting. I think the last round is stronger, but these generally have more political implications.

Highcliff Felidar bugs me slightly, mostly because it costs 7 while all the others cost 6. I think that Luminate Primordial is a bit better due to its ability to exile (and also not being locked into the largest thing), but Highcliff not targeting gives it a few interesting properties - ignores hexproof/shroud, and will always it something, even if an opponent blinks/bounces their creature in response.

Sphinx of Enlightenment isn't particularly exciting, but card draw is card draw. Giving an opponent a card gives it a bit of political value.

Calculating Lich speaks to me on a spiritual level with its flavor text. Not particularly powerful, but adds a bit of politicking to black's portfolio - I can't think of any black cards that do this, while there are a few others in other colors (ex: Gahiji, Honored One).

Fiendish Duo doesn't double damage to creatures/planeswalkers, only players, which doesn't make a straight replacement for most damage doublers. Still, it's passable as a budget substitution for Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. Alternatively, Rakdos, the Showstopper?

Earthshaker Giant casts Overrun on ETB. Budget alternative for Craterhoof Behemoth? Also a bit cheaper manawise. Interesting to compare to Pathbreaker Ibex - usually a smaller pump, but no need to attack.

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gilrad
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Post by gilrad » 1 year ago

Highcliff Felidar looks more like a fixed luminate primordial to me. I ended up taking mine out of most of my recursion-heavy decks because he just gives everybody so much life, pushing the endgame further away every time he comes back.

All the other cards look really fun and will definitely find their ways into my decks.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 1 year ago

All the 5 cards are cool, probably better than the previous cards. I hope they won't get too expensive

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