Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Gamazson
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Post by Gamazson » 2 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
2 months ago
Wow "completed a dungeon" is such an amazing mechanic. You only need to spend the entire game trying to achieve it and you get incredible bonuses like Cloister Gargoyle as a 3/4 flyer for 2w and Gloom Stalker a 2/3 double striker for 2w. I'd say this mechanic will be banned in most formats.
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Or for most practical purposes, it will be un-playable, like the Level Up mechanic was.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 2 months ago

The 'completed a dungeon' abilities aren't the treasure you're looking for - the real treasure is the friends you made along the way! (by which I mean the incremental dungeon rewards, like tokens / scry / card draw, and the big loot pile at the end of the dungeon)

....I expect it will end up faring pretty close to city's blessing - a primarily limited-focused mechanic, with a few actually good cards at rare/mythic that see play elsewhere. That does mean it's fairly unlikely that you'll be able to make a dedicated EDH deck, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a Standard venture aggro deck built around completing Tomb of Annihilation as quickly as possible. The fact that it is parasitic makes it a bit harder to slide into a deck - any venturers that are playable in EDH will probably need to be able to be able to complete a dungeon by themselves via repeatable triggers. Shortcut Seeker doing so at common does suggest that the ability will be aggressively costed, at least.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 months ago

Gamazson wrote:
2 months ago
Or for most practical purposes, it will be un-playable, like the Level Up mechanic was.
Last time I played Lighthouse Chronologist I almost got banned from my LGS (kidding, but only kinda - people did NOT like that and I quickly felt bad for playing it).

I'd say let's withhold some judgment on the mechanic overall until we've seen all the cards that interact with it. At the very least, it seems like a pretty cute build-around, even if it ends up being a low-powered one.

We're going to have space marines in a year or two so, y'know, if this mechanic feels like a betrayal of the game you'll probably want to hold onto your butt pretty hard.
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ilovesaprolings
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 2 months ago

Eh, they printed %$#% mechanics that were almost labeled as the secondo coming of Jesus Christ. People wanted to change EDH rules just for learn. Eh eh. And now we get mad about dungeons? Which are basically sagas that advance with your permanents' triggered abilities?
In the end the mechanic will be printed on few cards and will be unplayable in EDH. Unless they really push it in the AFR commander precon, maybe putting some new dungeons while we are at it.

BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 months ago

Even as much of an angry old man as I am, I don't think Dungeons are going to be that bad. I am leery of extras like them in general though, because if poorly handled they could become must-haves far quicker than cards that require slots.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 months ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
2 months ago
Even as much of an angry old man as I am, I don't think Dungeons are going to be that bad. I am leery of extras like them in general though, because if poorly handled they could become must-haves far quicker than cards that require slots.
To clarify, you don't need the dungeon cards to "do the dungeon" to my understanding. They're basically like tokens. If you gain control of someone else's card with this mechanic, you can just pull it up on your phone, use a dice, borrow theirs, whatever. I assume they'll be in the token slot in packs (though that's just speculation on my part).
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Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
2 months ago
Even as much of an angry old man as I am, I don't think Dungeons are going to be that bad. I am leery of extras like them in general though, because if poorly handled they could become must-haves far quicker than cards that require slots.
To clarify, you don't need the dungeon cards to "do the dungeon" to my understanding. They're basically like tokens. If you gain control of someone else's card with this mechanic, you can just pull it up on your phone, use a dice, borrow theirs, whatever. I assume they'll be in the token slot in packs (though that's just speculation on my part).
Ah. Then they're slightly gimmicky, I guess, but harmless. I don't think I'll run them anywhere, unless they print a really good support card for them that also fits perfectly into one of my existing decks.
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kirkusjones
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Post by kirkusjones » 2 months ago

To be clear, I'm not bothered by dungeons, they just seem like an inelegant version of contraptions. If they print something fun for Grismold, I might give them a look, but other than that, add 'em to the laundry list of mechanics and abilities that I'll have to squint at and ask to RTFC if I run across one in the wild.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 months ago

I kinda like the dungeons because they mean that a crapload of the cards are going to be superparasitic and that's a good way to make these cards not that important outside of the set they're in, but who knows :P

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 2 months ago

pokken wrote:
2 months ago
I kinda like the dungeons because they mean that a crapload of the cards are going to be superparasitic and that's a good way to make these cards not that important outside of the set they're in, but who knows :P
Anything that only works if you've completed a dungeon will probably be garbage outside of a dedicated dungeon commander, but I could imagine cards that do the dungeoning would be ok since the wizard lair has a decent payoff. But idk, as the + on a planeswalker it sure doesn't look very strong so far, so it may well end up being pretty underpowered.

It's cute to kinda have the mechanic do separate things in standard vs commander though - the 2 short dungeons are almost unplayable in commander whereas the long one is probably too slow for standard outside of control mirrors.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Moonlighter
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Post by Moonlighter » 2 months ago

I can appreciate that they start outside the game and then are brought into the command zone. When I first saw them today I was curious how they were going to use zoning to get them into a playable place. Now they can just sit outside the game along with all of the Black Lotuses I've created with Garth while goldfishing. They never truly go away - they live in your heart forever.

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Post by kraus911 » 2 months ago

I was/am iffy on the IP crossover, but I kinda dig the dungeon mechanic. It's not powerful, but it's interesting and potentially fun. I think if you have a blink deck why not put and etb dungeon creature in and go to town.

For a commander I can imagine a tap to enter the dungeon one over a Mana sink version. Maybe a landfall trigger?

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Gamazson
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Post by Gamazson » 2 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 months ago
Gamazson wrote:
2 months ago
Or for most practical purposes, it will be un-playable, like the Level Up mechanic was.
Last time I played Lighthouse Chronologist I almost got banned from my LGS (kidding, but only kinda - people did NOT like that and I quickly felt bad for playing it).

I'd say let's withhold some judgment on the mechanic overall until we've seen all the cards that interact with it. At the very least, it seems like a pretty cute build-around, even if it ends up being a low-powered one.
Fair enough, everything has an edge case, but I don't have high hopes for the mechanics longevity.
DirkGently wrote:
2 months ago
We're going to have space marines in a year or two so, y'know, if this mechanic feels like a betrayal of the game you'll probably want to hold onto your butt pretty hard.
If they don't have a functional reprint of Despotic Scepter themed to an Imperial Guard Commissar, I'll riot lol.

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 months ago

Can someone link to the dungeon card please,also some of the card links are broken
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Post by folding_music » 2 months ago

dungeon delving cards make me think of the story cards in Mythos, they're sweet and gimmicky and only for ultra-casual play and I love them and it looks like they're the cards that'll be getting most of the showcase frames so they'll be buyable cheap. been de-emphasizing commander in my collection because it's primarily a format for squabbling and card sharking via hype videos, kinda more enjoying revamping some sixty card casual decks and planning out small casual variants, and "Future and Showcase frames only" is one i'm excited about, so the set's for me and not for you =P

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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 2 months ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 months ago
Can someone link to the dungeon card please,also some of the card links are broken
Here is the mechanic article explaining how dungeons work: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2021-06-24
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JWK
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Post by JWK » 2 months ago

The dungeon mechanic and the cards that enable it don't seem likely to be particularly good in Commander, and I am 100% cool with this. Not everything is or should be about us, and I would much rather have a subset of cards published that is mediocre or even bad in out format than yet more too-pushed cards aimed at commander that break standard. EDH is better when the game as a whole is healthier.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Lifeless
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Post by Lifeless » 2 months ago

Yes it's refreshing to see a set that's not excessively pandering to EDH. That being said it's bound to be packed with new legends so it's not like we're entirely forgotten.

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 months ago

Just a reminder that we had Strixhaven with learn as the previous standard set :P
 
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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 months ago
Just a reminder that we had Strixhaven with learn as the previous standard set :P
don't remind me :P
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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 2 months ago

The hot topic (this week at least, who can keep up with MTG drama) is that WOTC is pushing commander cards and ruining other constructed formats. Two sets with standard focused mechanics is nice

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Post by BeneTleilax » 2 months ago

Agreed. Let Standard, Modern and Pioneer get some love. We will pick up the weird cards, the casual cards, the dollar rares, and I honestly hope little more. We gathered a better harvest gleaning their fields than reaping what has been sown for us.
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Post by Igzex » 2 months ago

So Dungeon is basically kinda an advantage that your opponent's can't really take from you but for you to utilize that advantage, you have to play what so far appear to be jank cards. As a The Ur-Dragon player I can identify with that...

ilovesaprolings
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 2 months ago

duducrash wrote:
2 months ago
The hot topic (this week at least, who can keep up with MTG drama) is that WOTC is pushing commander cards and ruining other constructed formats. Two sets with standard focused mechanics is nice
Yeah big pile of %$#%$#% spewed by people who know jackshit about commander.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 2 months ago

I too am liking the low power feel of this set. Maybe they finally learned to back the %$#% off and just let us enjoy our jank instead of forcefeeding us what they think we want. Here's to hoping!
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