Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Sporegorger_Dragon
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 3 months ago

Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
3 months ago
Yes there's the squirrel thing going on but there's also a subtler crab thing going on in this collection as well. :thinking:
I appreciate this crab thing as well. We need more butter!

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Post by kirkusjones » 3 months ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
3 months ago
Sanity_Eclipse wrote:
3 months ago
Yes there's the squirrel thing going on but there's also a subtler crab thing going on in this collection as well. :thinking:
I appreciate this crab thing as well. We need more butter!
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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

As I play both Commander and Modern as my main magic passions, this set really speaks to me. There is of course some chaff I personally don't care for but I'm honestly wondering if I should buy a box or just eBay for all the commons uncommon and direct buy my rares as per usual. Sometimes viscerally opening a pack feels better to waiting on the mail.
Last edited by EonAon 3 months ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by kirkusjones » 3 months ago

EonAon wrote:
3 months ago
As I play both Commander and modern as my main magic passions, this set really speaks to me. There is of course some chaff I personally don't care for but I'm honestly wondering if i should buy a box or just eBay for all the commons unsummons and direct buy my rares as per usual. Sometimes viscerally opening a pack feels better to waiting on the mail.
I'm in the same boat, can't decide if I should gamble on a box or sit tight and see how the singles market shakes out.

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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

kirkusjones wrote:
3 months ago
EonAon wrote:
3 months ago
As I play both Commander and modern as my main magic passions, this set really speaks to me. There is of course some chaff I personally don't care for but I'm honestly wondering if i should buy a box or just eBay for all the commons unsummons and direct buy my rares as per usual. Sometimes viscerally opening a pack feels better to waiting on the mail.
I'm in the same boat, can't decide if I should gamble on a box or sit tight and see how the singles market shakes out.
The singles market is my big worry honestly, since covid and scalpers have driven secondary prices up. Plus side is this is a set with the off bore fetches and while the prices will go down some people still want them tremendously much, so it might be possible early on to buy a box sell the fetches and buy a box for at least a couple months depending. I helps that the flavor to power on other cards will be generating chase rare effects. Admittedly I got a 4 pack of all Zendikar fetches the first time around so I can look at the economics of this differently than some other players.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

I tested Zabaz, the Glimmerwasp a bit, and found it really lackluster. It's torn between junkyard aristocrats, voltron and sort of aggro without a fitting payoff for any of them. I think it could work with some more cheap, good modular creatures, but right now it dies hard to any wraths and/or grave hate.
Decks: Flicker Feather, Krenko, Varina, Zabaz

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Post by NZB2323 » 3 months ago

Cards I'm looking at picking up:

Damn for Tymna/Ravos and Kaalia.
Serra's Emissary for Kaalia.
Dauthi Voidwalker for Tymna/Ravos.
Suspend for Niv-Mizzet.
Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer for Niv-Mizzet and Winota.
Resurgent Belief and Out of Time for Ghen.
Echoing Return for Marrow-Gnawer.

All my talk about green being overpowered and I'm not looking at picking up any green cards. I guess Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth would be good for Captain Sisay, but I feel like it isn't worth the price.
EDH
WUBrg Morophon, the infinite Kavu
Rwb Ghen, Prison Weaver
Rwb Kaalia, Angel tribal
Rwb Edgar, low curve
Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal
Wr Winota, Aggro and Combo
WG Captain Sisay land destruction
Ur Niv-Mizzet, Parun
Ug Edric pauper
Bg Sarulf peasant
B Marrow-Gnawer, rat colony

Pauper
U Delver
B ETB creatures
G elves

I don’t play modern anymore.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

NZB2323 wrote:
3 months ago
All my talk about green being overpowered and I'm not looking at picking up any green cards.
Personally, I predict the biggest impact the set will have on my own decks is getting blown out by Endurance over and over. :P

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Post by Outcryqq » 3 months ago

Cards I plan on using or testing:

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Post by folding_music » 3 months ago

been imagining an artifact-centric Amareth, the Lustrous deck which casts stuff like Academy Manufactor, Treasure Map // Treasure Cove, the pick etc and runs as many artifact lands as possible. MH2 makes it happen more or less by itself. I know it's a ridiculous casual thing to do but I kinda wanna? Plus there's so many artifact creatures which make or retrieve other artifact creatures, I think it might be a nice all-permanents autopilot deck. And you can run Urza's Factory and feel justified to do so, for a change :)))

edit: The Cookbook fits in so nicely too. just spam token creators and pick up yr deck. naturally you run all the Etherium Sculptor, foundry guy with the same text, Helm of Awakening, Semblance Anvil junk too

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 months ago

I'm personally pretty torn on this set myself. There's a lot of stuff I could use, but honestly where prices are sitting at present has me worried I'm going to be way off affording even half of what I'd like for even the small core of my mainstay decks. Granted, prices will drop upon release, but will it be enough? I only need like 7-8 cards, I'd just rather not get absolutely gouged for them. It's a weird game of chicken waiting for release date to see what happens with prices.

Part of me wants to shell out what money I do have towards a bundle and see what comes of it. It's virtually the only way I'll get fetches, can't see them dropping in price enough to pick more than, like, one. To be fair of my mainstays I probably need 3 off-colour tops (2 Marsh Flats and 1 Verdant Catacombs - I can't bring myself to run off-CI fetches even if I did have them), but it would be really nice quality of life to be able to say I even have a couple of them.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 months ago
I'm personally pretty torn on this set myself. There's a lot of stuff I could use, but honestly where prices are sitting at present has me worried I'm going to be way off affording even half of what I'd like for even the small core of my mainstay decks. Granted, prices will drop upon release, but will it be enough? I only need like 7-8 cards, I'd just rather not get absolutely gouged for them. It's a weird game of chicken waiting for release date to see what happens with prices.

Part of me wants to shell out what money I do have towards a bundle and see what comes of it. It's virtually the only way I'll get fetches, can't see them dropping in price enough to pick more than, like, one. To be fair of my mainstays I probably need 3 off-colour tops (2 Marsh Flats and 1 Verdant Catacombs - I can't bring myself to run off-CI fetches even if I did have them), but it would be really nice quality of life to be able to say I even have a couple of them.
Generally speaking you won't ever have a reprint card jump in price after a set releases. Most of the jumps tend to be people seeing a card over perform somewhere more so than was expected. Reprints have a known value and generally speaking they will only drop on the product dropping and soon after it begins to age.

New cards are always a crap shoot. I have been on both ends of assessing cards thinking they are too cheap and too expensive to be wrong in both cases. I bought 8 Field of the Dead for $0.50 each on pre order but at the same time I felt like there was no way that The Great Henge was going up (and was wrong). A lot of pricing of new cards comes from their impact in formats though. Historically speaking commander has rarely affected new standard release cards much because of the nature of the format only needing singletons which tends to be mostly true for those releases except for exceptional cards.

This one is going to be a bit weird being that Modern and Commander are the focus. Its also a premium product which means higher price per pack and usually lower supply being released to the market as a whole. As a whole though, usually the pre order prices don't stick once the product releases. That isn't to say there aren't cards that go up but as a whole most of the cards seem to have something like a 25-40% increase for pre order vs what happens when the product floods the market.

EDIT: TLDR - buy singles and do it after the product launches. The only exception in my mind is if you see something you want a bunch of and think the price of it is exceptionally lower than it should or could be.
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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

I think generally if you hold to that rule of buying singles post-launch you're unlikely to go wrong often. You'll miss some great henges and field of the dead, but if you just bought those at launch you'd still be in good shape.

For every The Great Henge there's a dozen things that become bulk rares a week or two after launch.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
3 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 months ago
I'm personally pretty torn on this set myself. There's a lot of stuff I could use, but honestly where prices are sitting at present has me worried I'm going to be way off affording even half of what I'd like for even the small core of my mainstay decks. Granted, prices will drop upon release, but will it be enough? I only need like 7-8 cards, I'd just rather not get absolutely gouged for them. It's a weird game of chicken waiting for release date to see what happens with prices.

Part of me wants to shell out what money I do have towards a bundle and see what comes of it. It's virtually the only way I'll get fetches, can't see them dropping in price enough to pick more than, like, one. To be fair of my mainstays I probably need 3 off-colour tops (2 Marsh Flats and 1 Verdant Catacombs - I can't bring myself to run off-CI fetches even if I did have them), but it would be really nice quality of life to be able to say I even have a couple of them.
Generally speaking you won't ever have a reprint card jump in price after a set releases. Most of the jumps tend to be people seeing a card over perform somewhere more so than was expected. Reprints have a known value and generally speaking they will only drop on the product dropping and soon after it begins to age.

New cards are always a crap shoot. I have been on both ends of assessing cards thinking they are too cheap and too expensive to be wrong in both cases. I bought 8 Field of the Dead for $0.50 each on pre order but at the same time I felt like there was no way that The Great Henge was going up (and was wrong). A lot of pricing of new cards comes from their impact in formats though. Historically speaking commander has rarely affected new standard release cards much because of the nature of the format only needing singletons which tends to be mostly true for those releases except for exceptional cards.

This one is going to be a bit weird being that Modern and Commander are the focus. Its also a premium product which means higher price per pack and usually lower supply being released to the market as a whole. As a whole though, usually the pre order prices don't stick once the product releases. That isn't to say there aren't cards that go up but as a whole most of the cards seem to have something like a 25-40% increase for pre order vs what happens when the product floods the market.

EDIT: TLDR - buy singles and do it after the product launches. The only exception in my mind is if you see something you want a bunch of and think the price of it is exceptionally lower than it should or could be.
pokken wrote:
3 months ago
I think generally if you hold to that rule of buying singles post-launch you're unlikely to go wrong often. You'll miss some great henges and field of the dead, but if you just bought those at launch you'd still be in good shape.

For every The Great Henge there's a dozen things that become bulk rares a week or two after launch.
I feel like both of those posts are mostly just for reassurance, but thats probably what's needed here. I think in this case there's a few cards that really aren't going to drop in price significantly (Voidwalker, Esper Sentinel), but honestly so long as there's some drop in price I'll probably try to get in.

Timing wise it'll work out ok. My LGS isn't getting bundles until the end of the month so if my chase cards don't drop significantly enough I can always roll the dice.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 months ago
I feel like both of those posts are mostly just for reassurance, but thats probably what's needed here. I think in this case there's a few cards that really aren't going to drop in price significantly (Voidwalker, Esper Sentinel), but honestly so long as there's some drop in price I'll probably try to get in.
Esper sentinel will settle at $5, quote me on that :) It's not that good and the price ceiling for a non-fetchland rare in this set is way, way lower than people think it is.

(Any set with Fetchlands in it will massively suppress the price of other cards, it's just the nature of things)

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 months ago

pokken wrote:
3 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
3 months ago
I feel like both of those posts are mostly just for reassurance, but thats probably what's needed here. I think in this case there's a few cards that really aren't going to drop in price significantly (Voidwalker, Esper Sentinel), but honestly so long as there's some drop in price I'll probably try to get in.
Esper sentinel will settle at $5, quote me on that :) It's not that good and the price ceiling for a non-fetchland rare in this set is way, way lower than people think it is.

(Any set with Fetchlands in it will massively suppress the price of other cards, it's just the nature of things)
Personally I don't see Esper Sentinel fitting into the current modern meta but that could change. Control strategies tend to be weak in modern though and more go for proactive fast gameplans which I don't think Esper Sentinel plays against well but honestly its been a while since I was up to date on modern.
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 months ago

Oh I'd have no idea myself. I've literally never played modern, so I'm clueless. But this is all pretty reassuring. All that said I think Dauthi Voidwalker will stay expensive. I'm also hoping for Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer to drop in price, because right now, holy %$#%.

Obviously fetches dropping would be nice too, but we'll just have to see what happens there.
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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

If your really wanting alot of the cards in a set and they are commons uncomons you want to hit up Ebay a few days to a week after product hits for complete sets of said commons and uncomons. Usually I find even in very popular sets you can get a 4x whatever amount of them all for a good 60 to 70 dollars. You do have to worry about things like Fatal Push or Dismember being a outstanding common but you do get the complete set of them without having to TCG player 12 different stores and wait. This set will be especially good for that since the retailers and the secondary market sellers want fetches for profit. Also didnt they say they were going to print this a couple times as demanded?

I usually never buy my rares now cause the hype train and issues of scarcity to what the big guys can technically buy for cases is still up in the air. So anything presold is going to be insano priced. Two weeks to about a month after is generally the sweet spot for rares unless is spectacularly good. I still love that I got Dreadhorde Arcanist for like 3 bucks when people didnt get that it was REALLY good.

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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
3 months ago
Oh I'd have no idea myself. I've literally never played modern, so I'm clueless. But this is all pretty reassuring. All that said I think Dauthi Voidwalker will stay expensive. I'm also hoping for Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer to drop in price, because right now, holy %$#%.

Obviously fetches dropping would be nice too, but we'll just have to see what happens there.


Depending on how many times they do a printing Duathi may stay 15 to 20...maybe. It is a fairly powerful card in itself and can do alot of legwork. but the tap sac means your only getting up to 4 effects from voiding many of your opponents cards. Admittedly this REALLY screws Dredge decks over, and any other grave shenanigans. But it is still just a creature, admittedly a very efficient one.

Ragavan will drop to 5 to 7 early since this card is hyped priced cards beyond the decks that will play them and might drop to 3 or less if a archetype doesn't form from him and the new treasure support. Legendary actually hurts this card and dash isnt the best ability since you can realistically only want/can dash one of them in your hand so multiples are not the best for aggro and midrange may want to use something different.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 months ago

EonAon wrote:
3 months ago
Also didnt they say they were going to print this a couple times as demanded?
Yep, it's not a limited print run. That being said, fetches will still stay high, they're just wanted everywhere. I'll see what the nadir ends up being. I'm happy enough to save some cash for like $20-30 if they drop that far, but currently they're sitting at about 60-65 a pop for the ones I want and that's just too much for me.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 months ago

Print to Demand is a thing but with the higher price point of packs its always going to be somewhat expensive to crack packs / boxes / cases for this product. Generally speaking with a print to demand product the price tag of the sealed product as well as what the expected value from said product is both play very big roles in how much gets opened.

If you ever watch a print to demand standard set that doesn't have as good of rare / mythics generally speaking they will have 1-3 chase cards and the rest of the set you will loose your ass on. Those sets tend to be opened very little because the expected opening of said product is that you don't make your money back. That also forces the price tag of those few chase rare or mythics to be very high like when Ugin, the Spirit Dragon was originally printed it was total insanity because the set as a whole kind of sucked but he was what everyone wanted. On the flip side an all star set like say Kahns of Tarkir was amazing at $4 a pack with fetchlands and a huge slue of amazing cards like Dig through Time and Siege Rhinos that made the price point of a ton of cards super low because of the abundance of high quality cracks. All I am saying is that price point tends to come in reflecting how many good pulls there are if you can expect to make money from cracking it. With so many new cards and a high price per pack its going to come down to the performance of the new cards and if there is a high demand to get hands on them.
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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

Eh I personally think there is enough try and build around me stuff in this set to at least get a 2nd print run. Having fetches that have only been printed once will help that along as well as the alt art for said fetches.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 months ago

I'm extremely excited for Yusri, Fortune's Flame because of a very specific reason that I can't share here, but I'm so happy to find a "fun" deck for Krark's Thumb.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 3 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
I'm extremely excited for Yusri, Fortune's Flame because of a very specific reason that I can't share here, but I'm so happy to find a "fun" deck for Krark's Thumb.
Well now I gotta know. Why can't you share? Izzet a conspiracy? Harboring terrorists? Giving terrorists edh decks?! Jesus, if I was the fbi, I'd kick down your door for answers.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 3 months ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
3 months ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
3 months ago
I'm extremely excited for Yusri, Fortune's Flame because of a very specific reason that I can't share here, but I'm so happy to find a "fun" deck for Krark's Thumb.
Well now I gotta know. Why can't you share? Izzet a conspiracy? Harboring terrorists? Giving terrorists edh decks?! Jesus, if I was the fbi, I'd kick down your door for answers.
Here's a cryptic gif.

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