Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

Sol Talisman continues to fill out the loose 'power 9 with suspend' cycle, following Mox Tantalite, Ancestral Vision, and Lotus Bloom. Obviously slow if you have to suspend it, but an interesting option for Salvaging Station.

Re: Dauthi Voidwalker - I do think it's good, and can go in a lot of decks, but I don't think it's on the same level as Hullbreacher or Opposition Agent. A cheaper Leyline of the Void is certainly good, but there are already a ton of grave hate options, which makes it a lot more replaceable. Its creature typing is a bit of a mixed bag - if you have a creature-focused deck, it's great since you can recur it, but in less creature-focused decks, its increased vulnerability to removal makes it more vulnerable. The sacrifice ability is nice, but also somewhat inconsistent without mill.

...of my decks, I think it's a snap-include in Teysa (which likes small black creatures and sacrifice effects), but it's a miss in Tasigur and Sharuum. On the fence for Kess, leaning towards inclusion.

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Lifeless
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Post by Lifeless » 3 months ago

Sythis is a great example of Wizard's worst design impulses for legends. As someone who has played Sigarda enchantress for as long as she's existed I'm very disappointed to see such an uninspired legend for dedicated GW. I'll be sticking with Sigarda almost certainly.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 months ago

pokken wrote:
3 months ago

Being a multi-typed creature is a *downgrade* in power since it's vastly more vulnerable. At its rate it could be a 2/1 or trigger on every non-creature spell or on every spell type an be fine (any one of those things).

The point is it's *much worse* than Rhystic Study even considering relative rates, since it has two massive downgrades (not triggering on each spell, not triggering on multiple casts).

They're super careful with white cards, but then they print Hullbreacher in blue. It's nonsense. Every time they try to "push the envelope" in white it winds up being way too cautious. Just go ahead and print an autoinclude.

The bottom line is that white cards are almost never pushed relative to their mana cost. They're right about what you would expect as fair.
I really think you're underestimating how powerful being 1 mana instead of 3 is. Being able to trigger on "the ramp turn" is a huge advantage, and it's much easier to weave into later turns. That is such a huge difference that even despite the weaker effect I think it's probably a stronger card overall.

I generally agree that being multi typed is a downside, but it could be an upside for artifact decks. It can also do things like chump block or wear equipment in that late-game when the tax might not be super relevant, where rhystic might be a total brick.

You're ignoring the additional bonus that it can escalate if you boost its power. For some decks that could be a significant deal.

But the cost thing really is the big part. Both this guy and rhystic will usually give you quite a few cards. Let's say for sake of argument that rhystic gives you 7 cards over the course of the game while this guy gives you only 3 - I'd say this guy is better tbh, because both are giving tons of value but this guy doesn't force you to sacrifice as much tempo. It can be hard to see the value of smaller effects in a format with so many bombs but the cost here is amazing.

And one other note - I see a lot of people get dog piled when they play rhystic. I don't think that'll happen as much with this guy. I do consider that a tangible advantage.

I fully expect him to be played in a LOT of decks.
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

I anticipate that sentinel coming out on turn one, drawing two cards, then getting caught up in a sweeper. Or coming out super late and doing nothing since people can easily afford to pay when they are multispelling.

That's the thing that makes rhystic so good, you can't have a big turn and pay for everything.

This card they pay once and it's done for that turn. It's way worse.

It's true that it's not as big a political target but that's because it's much worse. It's a nice effect in white but I'd rather have had it cost 2 or 3 and been pushed so it's good late game. That thing is t r a s h late in the game

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Post by darrenhabib » 3 months ago

Dauthi Voidwalker seems very pushed for most formats. Hatebear against graveyard strategies, can pressure planeswalkers with evasion and even comes with a card advantage upside.
I think you'll see it make legacy and modern decks, even build arounds for sure.
It's a one sided Rest in Peace but has more upside. Remember you can combo with Helm of Obedience so that is another mono-black combo.
Anyway don't sleep on this one, it will be in demand for other formats and this is a very powerful commander card.

On a similar note in my opinion don't wait around for people to figure out that Urza's Saga is a very, very powerful card for commander. I know it was spoiled early but as the dust settles on the set it's the type of card that will be in demand for legacy, vintage and modern as combo set up card, and it's no different for commander. This is just my way of saying that this is the sort of card that will go up in price overtime as people figure out the many applications of it.

I think Suspend is cEDH playable as it has the dual purpose of removal and protection in certain spots. As cards like Delay prove to be basically a hard counter in cEDH as games as tend to not last long enough to see the next 3 turns through. Taking an opponent off a creature for a couple of turns normally is the difference between getting value from that creature or not in uber competitive games.

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UnfulfilledDesires
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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 3 months ago

As far as cEDH goes, Profane Tutor may end up having more of an impact than anything from CMR thanks to its interaction with Codie, Vociferous Codex. This allows Codie decks to consistently tutor for Ad Nauseam, possibly making them the best Turbo-Naus option out there.

& Dauthi Voidwalker may well be up there with Opposition Agent & Hullbreacher. The fact that you can cash it in to cast any nonpermanent spell anyone has cast since it's been on the battlefield (or before, in some cases) is huge.

Regardless of cEDH impact, I'm impressed by how many upgrades & obvious designs there are: Sanctum Weaver, Ignoble Hierarch, Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth, Damn, Sythis, Hand of the Harvest, Suspend, etc.

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EonAon
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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

Yeah this is the first time in a LOOOONG while that I really feel a need to buy a box or so. Not many sets lately have I got that urge instead of just buying singles.

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Post by toctheyounger » 3 months ago

Inevitable Betrayal - we need a Firefly alter with Wash and his toy dinosaurs.

Actual card evaluation - kind of nice, a cheaper Bribery. I'm not sure it has the same impact with suspend, probably best coming off a cascade for immediate cast.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 3 months ago

I think my favourite terrible take for a card this set is the guy who asked "why play this over sol ring?" When talking about Sol Talisman.

Favourite good take was the guy who called it "slo ring".
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by Hermes_ » 3 months ago

i may buy an actual bundle and i haven't done that in decades lol
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

Inevitable Betrayal is going to prompt a lot of Firefly references. Still, as a budget Bribery replacement, it isn't horrible. Bribery has gone down a bit in value over time though.

Blossoming Calm is.... very interesting. Probably more of a thing for other formats - protecting yourself from targeted discard / sacrifice / burn for two turns is pretty solid sideboard tech. Still, it definitely has some implications as a pseudo-Teferi's Protection - obviously much more limited, but one mana and rebound are both relevant.

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Post by Ginuqu » 3 months ago

Sythis, Hand of the Harvest makes me think of Morrowind, 'n stuff. I was so into the lore of that game that seeing essentially the same name on a cutesy enchantress is a jolt. Kinda formulating a theory of "once the names of your legends impinge on more thought-out properties, you have enough legends" but I'm not brave enough to publish

2. the card is too good!
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Post by Dunadain » 3 months ago

Fury Seems, good, should have an option to hit people in the face, but everyone hates burn so maybe not.

In EDH however, it looks like the entire cycle is playable (heck the entire set is just flat out good!), Fury is similar to, but in most cases better than Flametongue Kavu which already sees plenty of play.

It is funny that green's (Endurance is probably the worst, at least in EDH, in other formats, a 3/4 with reach and flash is very pushed.

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Post by duducrash » 3 months ago




Eh, I enjoy it. Its a nice budget option to ramp decks that dont get a lot of access.

To some extent its a 3 cmc rock because of the sickness but I quite like it. I run Corrupted Grafstone in a izzet deck and this might be better? Im not sure

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

I'll prob run ornithopter birds in ephara. Pretty huge upgrade over Mana myrs.

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Post by EonAon » 3 months ago

I think I'm running this in affinity 3.0 cause mana fixing. Heck just in general this is pretty good for what it does

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

EonAon wrote:
3 months ago
I think I'm running this in affinity 3.0 cause mana fixing. Heck just in general this is pretty good for what it does
Flying dudes you can put swords and counters on are absolutely clutch in affinity edh builds. This is an autoinclude imho.

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Post by Outcryqq » 3 months ago

UnfulfilledDesires wrote:
3 months ago
& Dauthi Voidwalker may well be up there with Opposition Agent & Hullbreacher. The fact that you can cash it in to cast any nonpermanent spell anyone has cast since it's been on the battlefield (or before, in some cases) is huge.
I agree with you that Voidwalker is exceedingly powerful. And unless I missed something, there's no "nonpermanent" restriction on what you can cash it in for.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 3 months ago

Dauthi Voidwalker is too good for the mana value. You don't hardly see 3 power with shadow on a creature that aggressively costed that is useful really any other ways. In 20 life formats, this guy will do work in the early game. Main deck grave hate that is a highly relevant threat against PW and life totals with card advantage backup to boot. In commander, very good, but I won't be interested in this card if it's over $20.

Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth is interesting. I like the flavor of it, and I'm sure there are many relevant forest matters cards for payoff. Maybe not as good as Cabal Coffers, but the low opportunity cost to play like Urborg will make this a popular land.

I'm also in agreement that Tireless Provisioner is undercosted for uncommon and Search the Premises is overcosted for rare. Provisioner will get spots in 2 decks at minimum.

I just picked up about a dozen cards from Strixhaven for a new Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder deck. Now with Profane Tutor and Sol Talisman, I'll get all the broken things for with Yidris. Debating on if I want Wheel of Fate in there too.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

Magus of the Bridge is.... interesting. At three mana, it's the cheapest unconditional version of this effect (since Xathrid Necromancer needs humans) - Open the Graves is two more mana. It does have the nasty 'exile when something dies' clause, but you can also sacrifice it in response to at least keep it around in your graveyard. Not sure if it makes the cut in Teysa, but certainly worth consideration.

Ornithopter of Paradise has some potential in Animar. I guess the Iron Myr cycle already exists, but actual fixing is a significant upside they don't provide.

Fury is an interesting alternative to Pyrokinesis. Seems reasonable in EDH, but this sort of effect looks more relevant for Modern.

edit: Break the Ice is.... a very impressive hate card. A legit reason to not just make every manabase snow by default, and also extremely punishing for colorless decks and utility lands.
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Guardman
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Post by Guardman » 3 months ago

So we got our snow land hate, and oh boy is there going to be splash damage. There are a ton of lands that produce c. And in the right meta this could be almost a one sided Armageddon.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

Outcryqq wrote:
3 months ago
Magus of the Bridge also curves well out of a Dauthi Voidwalker
Dauthi Voidwalker → Magus of the Bridge → Phyrexian ObliteratorGray Merchant of Asphodel sounds like a beautiful curve. I approve.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

I don't think I'll run Break the Ice but I'm all for more nonbasic hate. Manabases should be a consideration, with legitimate tradeoffs, rather than an attempt to cram in as much fixing as money can buy.
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Post by Dunadain » 3 months ago

I like Blessed Relief, not because I think it's good or anything, it just seems neat, instant speed grave hate or fog gives options. Unfortunately there's at least 3-4 better fogs for most decks but I think it's still neat ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Art wise, this thing is sick though, I love how the art is clearly inspired by Gaea's Blessing and Fog smooshed together. I almost feel like if you had shown me this art without showing me the rules text, I would have guessed it does exactly what it does. (or that it would be a modular card where you could choose one or another.)

For Phelddagrif, it also seems like a decent option, it's hard to turn down the flashback on Moment's Peace, but it's still cool.

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