Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 week ago

Oooh, just noticed it's a construct too - Scrapyard Recombiner likes.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 week ago

Oh, wow, Sythis is it. Maybe Sigarda or Siona are better finishers (and therefore better as generals), but I have been hoping for something simple like Sythis for a while (and had given up hope after Tuvasa).
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

Oh man Sythis is cool. Been steadily acquiring enchantress pieces for years now, but this demands I go ahead on the Argothinian enchantress. Good golly, this set is great. Better than commander legends by leaps and bounds imho, wow.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 week ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 week ago
Oh man Sythis is cool. Been steadily acquiring enchantress pieces for years now, but this demands I go ahead on the Argothinian enchantress. Good golly, this set is great. Better than commander legends by leaps and bounds imho, wow.
It's more powerful, certainly, but I would not be so quick to equate that with better.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
1 week ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 week ago
Oh man Sythis is cool. Been steadily acquiring enchantress pieces for years now, but this demands I go ahead on the Argothinian enchantress. Good golly, this set is great. Better than commander legends by leaps and bounds imho, wow.
It's more powerful, certainly, but I would not be so quick to equate that with better.
That's why I qualified it with "imho" and used the very clearly nonobjective metric "better". It's an opinion, we don't have to agree. I like this set more, it opens more doors for me personally as a player, and I predict its general impact will be a bigger net positive for the edh format than commander legends.

I take it you have some reservations about the power level, we can debate that. What are your concerns, specifically?

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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 1 week ago

For Modern Horizons 2 they threw caution to the wind & decided print tons of simple pushed cards that fans have been dreaming of for ages. I'm not sure how to feel about it. On the one hand, I want many of these high-power options for my EDH decks. On the other, I'm concerned about how this will affect the format. I enjoy cEDH, but I also like slower, gentler games with that classic EDH experience. Commander overall has been speeding up lately, & MH2 seems likely to accelerate that trend.

As far as Sythis specifically goes, I love enchantments but already have a GW deck (Asmira, Holy Avenger). I imagine I'll slot Slythis into a couple of my existing enchantments-matter lists: Rubinia Soulsinger|Legends & Najeela, the Blade-Blossom, Or maybe I'll cave & switch Asmira into a four-deck Mirage set, but I really don't need more decks.
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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

I am unreasonably excited by stupid 2 mana enchantress commander. That really makes that deck tick without having to obsess over keeping an enchantress on the board. Might be my Opalescence commander at long last :P Sythis, Hand of the Harvest

The primary issue enchantress decks have is having to combine ramp plus card draw, ramp really being the challenge to do without shaving into your enchantments too much, but this general lets you cut the enchantresses for 1) better enchantments, and 2) endgame ramp. Plus they printed a GSZ'able enchantment ramp finisher too which is kinda nice.

I think I'll play Argothian Enchantress and Eidolon of Blossoms but none of the bad three mana ones.

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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 1 week ago

Is it even remotely possible to do a Dredge deck with Bloodbraid Marauder and Living End as the win condition?

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

pokken wrote:
1 week ago
I am unreasonably excited by stupid 2 mana enchantress commander. That really makes that deck tick without having to obsess over keeping an enchantress on the board. Might be my Opalescence commander at long last :P Sythis, Hand of the Harvest

The primary issue enchantress decks have is having to combine ramp plus card draw, ramp really being the challenge to do without shaving into your enchantments too much, but this general lets you cut the enchantresses for 1) better enchantments, and 2) endgame ramp. Plus they printed a GSZ'able enchantment ramp finisher too which is kinda nice.

I think I'll play Argothian Enchantress and Eidolon of Blossoms but none of the bad three mana ones.
I'd still play all of them. Sythis is an enchantment herself, so you can use her for emergency cast/constellation triggers. Having an enchantress in the cz makes living the dream of 2+ active enchtress effects so trivially easy. Disagreement aside, I adore it too. Most exciting legend of the set for me.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
1 week ago
Is it even remotely possible to do a Dredge deck with Bloodbraid Marauder and Living End as the win condition?
For sure, check out @darrenhabib's astral living genesis deck :)

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Post by EonAon » 1 week ago

They did print Dauthi Voidwalker so you may have to fight for it.

"Energy Depot"
Artifact Land
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
T: Add C
T: Add one mana of any color. Use this mana only to cast artifact spells or activating abilites of artifacts.
Modular 1

Search the Premises 3W
Enchantment
Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, investigate. (Create a colorless Clue artifact token with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.)

Barbed Point 1W
Artifact - Equipment
When Barbed Point enters the battlefield, create a 1/1 colorless Thopter creature token with flying and attach this to it.
Equipped creature has +1/+0.

Equip 2

The above was found on salvation off a french twitter

Honestly I think Energy Depot has the feeling of being downshifted to uncommon. It has the feel of a rare they wanted to put in but just could not wedge it in there and it made the tempo go all wonky for the card since it would be too good as a uncommon without ETBT. Its good artifact mana fixing but slow for the decks that want said fixing. But the Modular is what really makes me scratch my head. I get that if they board wipe you of only the modular creatures they can move all the +1 counters to the land, But to pry the counters off the land your either have to Ensoul Artifact and have it trade, Shrapnel Blast, or Naturalize which is a secondary tempo drop from the loss of a land.

Search will be fun for commander if there are alot of creature interactions in a meta, otherwise it might just come out too late in other formats. I really admit I like this type of draw for white though.

Barbed point might be a affinity card, but it seems just a little too narrow in some aspects. Two artifacts for 1 and a flyer at that...but there are better efficiencies to consider

Ethersworn Sphinx is a boss

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

EonAon wrote:
1 week ago
But the Modular is what really makes me scratch my head. I get that if they board wipe you of only the modular creatures they can move all the +1 counters to the land, But to pry the counters off the land your either have to Ensoul Artifact and have it trade, Shrapnel Blast, or Naturalize which is a secondary tempo drop from the loss of a land.
So there's two things here: One is that Modular does not, in itself, make it a valid target for loading counters onto. If you get board wiped with modular creatures out, you can't put the counters on the land, as it is not an artifact creature.

The second is that there's a much much better way to get the counters off the land: Arcbound Ravager. Or any other sacrifice an artifact for a benefit card, but Ravager is the most relevant for Modern, which is presumably partially where this is aimed (the other spot it's probably aimed at is Modern Horizons Limited, which also has ways to sacrifice artifacts for value).

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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 week ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 week ago
That's why I qualified it with "imho" and used the very clearly nonobjective metric "better". It's an opinion, we don't have to agree. I like this set more, it opens more doors for me personally as a player, and I predict its general impact will be a bigger net positive for the edh format than commander legends.

I take it you have some reservations about the power level, we can debate that. What are your concerns, specifically?
We don't have to agree, but my own thoughts are that Green, which is already a bit overdominant, is getting a bunch of really strong cards that enable its worst instincts in deckbuilding. Lots of things that continually draw you cards for doing what you wanted to do anyways, lots of big undercosted generalist threats, lots of generals the table is going to spend all game playing whack-a-mole with. Furthermore, most of these are cards that further blur the line between competitive and casual. They probably aren't cEDH playable, but they demand constant and multifaceted interaction not to run away with the game, and promote "fallback" combos that can stumble into a win even if people disrupt the fair strategy.

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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

Wow, Foundation Breaker has to be one of the most powerful cards at uncommon in ages. Right after the other greenchase uncommon Tireless Provisioner.

C'mon WOTC :)

White stuff at rare is overcosted and green stuff at uncommon is pushed. Nonsense.

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

pokken wrote:
1 week ago
Wow, Foundation Breaker has to be one of the most powerful cards at uncommon in ages. Right after the other greenchase uncommon Tireless Provisioner.

C'mon WOTC :)

White stuff at rare is overcosted and green stuff at uncommon is pushed. Nonsense.
I mean, if you're calling a 3 drop version of an already existing 2 drop or a 4 drop version of an already existing 3 drop "pushed", but Esper Sentinel "overcosted", it might be worth acknowledging you've got some pretty hefty blinders on.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 week ago

elder dragon greenlander

emerald dragon highlander

elder plant highlander

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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 week ago

Captain Ripley Vance: Interesting new red spellslinger general. I like how she incentivizes casting a bunch of spells spread out over multiple turns, rather than trying to just go off in one. There is probably some combo nonsense that breaks her, but I'm hoping there's a new non-combo deck that comes out of this.

Slag Strider would be great in junkyard decks if it's ability were either free, or it were an artifact itself. As is, maybe it goes into more casual mono-red builds, but it feels slightly underwhelming even for them.

Specimen Collector probably goes infinite in Orvar. I do wish this said populate and was in white, but Simic is apparently the best token colors as well now.

Arcbound Javelineer is great! Random cheap rattlesnakes are underrated, imo. Keep the modular support coming.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

Wallycaine wrote:
1 week ago
I mean, if you're calling a 3 drop version of an already existing 2 drop or a 4 drop version of an already existing 3 drop "pushed", but Esper Sentinel "overcosted", it might be worth acknowledging you've got some pretty hefty blinders on.
I'm calling Search the Premises overcosted and Tireless Provisioner undercosted for an uncommon - treasure tokens are *much* stronger than Lotus Cobra's effect as well since they persist (and it's a frigging mythic originally).

Esper Sentinel is also a bit anemic, given that Mystic Remora has a pay 4 on an enchantment for the same effect and was common, and also triggers every cast (with the 'upkeep' cost perhaps balancing the 4 cost?). It could have triggered every cast and still not been overly pushed, given we have Rhystic Study which triggers on *all spells* and is an enchantment.

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

pokken wrote:
1 week ago
Wallycaine wrote:
1 week ago
I mean, if you're calling a 3 drop version of an already existing 2 drop or a 4 drop version of an already existing 3 drop "pushed", but Esper Sentinel "overcosted", it might be worth acknowledging you've got some pretty hefty blinders on.
I'm calling Search the Premises overcosted and Tireless Provisioner undercosted for an uncommon - treasure tokens are *much* stronger than Lotus Cobra's effect as well since they persist (and it's a frigging mythic originally).

Esper Sentinel is also a bit anemic, given that Mystic Remora has a pay 4 on an enchantment for the same effect and was common, and also triggers every cast (with the 'upkeep' cost perhaps balancing the 4 cost?). It could have triggered every cast and still not been overly pushed, given we have Rhystic Study which triggers on *all spells* and is an enchantment.
I mean, it's a 1 drop creature. Expecting it to be stronger than a 3 drop enchantment or a cumlative upkeep one is a bit much.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 week ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
1 week ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 week ago
That's why I qualified it with "imho" and used the very clearly nonobjective metric "better". It's an opinion, we don't have to agree. I like this set more, it opens more doors for me personally as a player, and I predict its general impact will be a bigger net positive for the edh format than commander legends.

I take it you have some reservations about the power level, we can debate that. What are your concerns, specifically?
We don't have to agree, but my own thoughts are that Green, which is already a bit overdominant, is getting a bunch of really strong cards that enable its worst instincts in deckbuilding. Lots of things that continually draw you cards for doing what you wanted to do anyways, lots of big undercosted generalist threats, lots of generals the table is going to spend all game playing whack-a-mole with. Furthermore, most of these are cards that further blur the line between competitive and casual. They probably aren't cEDH playable, but they demand constant and multifaceted interaction not to run away with the game, and promote "fallback" combos that can stumble into a win even if people disrupt the fair strategy.
I see what you're saying and present the counterpoints: See these cards? They are all cedh playable, and nothing in MH2 is even close to what these cards do. They're all from commander legends too and they are frankly boring in how pushed they are. MH2 has so heavy hitters, but at least they're more interesting and niche than the aforementioned list of highly generic powercreep.

Frankly, if mh2 has 5 cards of that caliber, I'll be impressed. I've seen 3ish so far that make me wonder, but nothing like lotus or kodama...

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Post by Mookie » 1 week ago

Lots of uncommons today, it appears.
  • Captain Ripley Vance is an amusing callback to Vance's Blasting Cannons // Spitfire Bastion. Three spells is a pretty significant ask for a good-but-not-amazing payoff though.
  • Foundation Breaker looks very solid. Hard to say if it's better than Reclamation Sage, but it's possible. At the very least, it pushes the five mana options (Acidic Slime, etc) even further out of the format.
  • Bloodbraid Marauder is potentially broken - we haven't seen any two mana cascade spells before for a reason. On the other hand, getting four card types in your graveyard by turn 2 seems.... difficult, so it probably won't actually come online until a bit later. If you can't get it active consistently, it will look pretty bad.
  • Ethersworn Sphinx is a fun mix-and-match card. Probably doesn't make the cut outside dedicated cascade decks, but it is sweet.
  • Dauthi Voidwalker looks very strong as a two mana Leyline of the Void. Cashing it in for a free spell also has some very high potential - imagine turn 2 this, turn 3 mill something absurd and cash the Voidwalker in for it. I'll never totally disregard something that can cast an Eldrazi on turn 3.
  • Chitterspitter is adorable. Niche outside dedicated squirrel decks though, since green has better token producers. Being an artifact does open it up to untap shenanigans though.
  • Riptide Laboratory reprint is nice.
  • Chrome Courier is an interesting upgrade to Sea Gate Oracle - putting a card in the graveyard and being an artifact is quite nice.
  • Sythis, Hand of the Harvest looks quite potent as an enchantress in the command zone for those that don't want to run Tuvasa the Sunlit.
  • Search the Premises is our promised white repeatable investigate card. I suspect it's a miss outside pillowfort decks - Ever-Watching Threshold sees minimal play already. Hmmmm....
  • Energy Deposit is interesting. I think I prefer the new indestructible lands for my Sharuum deck - modular is pretty niche (since you need the card to die), and my color requirements aren't steep enough to need a rainbow land. Still, may be worth consideration for 4/5 color artifact decks.
Re: power level discussion - from what I've seen so far, I don't think there is anything broken for EDH (although it's possible I've missed something(edit: forgot Yusri, Fortune's Flame)). It looks like most cards are targeted at, well, Modern. Lots of interesting options for that format, and there is certainly a bit of power creep in the form of incremental upgrades over already playable cards, but I don't think they've pushed things quite as much as Commander Legends.
Last edited by Mookie 1 week ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 week ago

Mookie wrote:
1 week ago
[*]Search the Premises is our promised white repeatable investigate card. I suspect it's a miss outside pillowfort decks - Ever-Watching Threshold sees minimal play already. Hmmmm....
Worth noting it has a huge upside over Threshold: It triggers *per* creature, not just once for multiple creatures. Obviously the mana investment gets non-trivial, but I suspect this is more useful than it's being made out to be, and obviously gets better with any clue synergy.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

Wallycaine wrote:
1 week ago
I mean, it's a 1 drop creature. Expecting it to be stronger than a 3 drop enchantment or a cumlative upkeep one is a bit much.
Being a multi-typed creature is a *downgrade* in power since it's vastly more vulnerable. At its rate it could be a 2/1 or trigger on every non-creature spell or on every spell type an be fine (any one of those things).

The point is it's *much worse* than Rhystic Study even considering relative rates, since it has two massive downgrades (not triggering on each spell, not triggering on multiple casts).

They're super careful with white cards, but then they print Hullbreacher in blue. It's nonsense. Every time they try to "push the envelope" in white it winds up being way too cautious. Just go ahead and print an autoinclude.

The bottom line is that white cards are almost never pushed relative to their mana cost. They're right about what you would expect as fair.
Wallycaine wrote:
1 week ago
Worth noting it has a huge upside over Threshold: It triggers *per* creature, not just once for multiple creatures. Obviously the mana investment gets non-trivial, but I suspect this is more useful than it's being made out to be, and obviously gets better with any clue synergy.
Narrower but worse in general - auto-draw vs. paying 2 for it, good in derpy artifact synergies but worse otherwise.

If Search the Premises had cost 1WW no one would have batted an eye.

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Post by capitacommunist » 1 week ago

Mookie wrote:
1 week ago
Re: power level discussion - from what I've seen so far, I don't think there is anything broken for EDH (although it's possible I've missed something(edit: forgot Yusri, Fortune's Flame)). It looks like most cards are targeted at, well, Modern. Lots of interesting options for that format, and there is certainly a bit of power creep in the form of incremental upgrades over already playable cards, but I don't think they've pushed things quite as much as Commander Legends.
Except for Dauthi Voidwalker, which is good enough to see play in every black deck, without any synergies. Hope it gets old border treatment:)

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 week ago

A recurring theme in Maro's MH2 articles is the mentioning that CMR was originally supposed to come out near MH1 (which led to MH1 being more mono-colour oriented). As such, it was deep in development during the most tumultuous power times. While "2019 syndome" didn't consume the entirety of the set, Hullbreacher et al. are lovely examples of stupid shoehorned-in cards, kinda like what they did for a couple years and are now slowly moving away from. I love CMR, the partners have been a blessing in particular, and those cards don't really feel like they fit but they're nevertheless there.

MH2 is a very nice set with a lot of organically nostalgic designs, a set by Magic players for Magic players. The legends are not as stunning as the CMR partners were, but that's a ridiculous bar to clear. The strongest MH2 legends revealed so far would be middle of the road power wise in MH1, which is a good testament to their increased caution. I'm not a fan of green's treatment either, while there's nothing ridiculous there's a worrying concentration of solid cards. The closest to a "what the hell" moment for me so far has been Tireless Provisioner, but at least it comes with the upside of being an uncommon. As such, it should be easily available - at least that much.
 
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