Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

bobthefunny wrote:
1 year ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Except for the part where Godsend is bad I agree :P . Godsend was a really weird effect in that it can be chump blocked and even if it wasn't chumped it didn't connect for very good damage in a lot of situations. I would almost say that Godsend was more of a defensive card but not in a good way.
You take that back!

Godsend was actually one of the reasons I built Roon of the Hidden Realm voltron deck. +3 makes him 7 power, and between Godsend's exile, and Roon's blink, the opponent would need to throw 3 creatures in front just to soak up any damage at all, otherwise it all tramples through.
It is significantly better when you attach it to something with trample but trample is also a mostly green mechanic. Once you get into GWX there becomes a lot of options on how to pump a threat. Roon is also the cheapest / smallest GWX legend with trample with only a handful of others existing. Given that Gosend does good things on defense as well is yet another shout out to Roon due to his built in vigilance.

Roon does sound like a decent use for Godsend, I don't know that I could name one off the top of my head so that is a good shout out for how you can tech cards that aren't so naturally good into decks and make them decent. Finding a deck for a questionable / bad card to be playable does not make them a good card.

We probably don't need to derail this though, I probably shouldn't have even bothered going in depth on my response like this but where Godsend is mostly a meme of a card Embercleave actually gets work done. It will cut through blockers and push trample / stat buff / and double strike for a good bit of a combat trick and overall just power. Godsend is really weird because its rare that the stat buffing and the exile clauses both matter in combat so for the most part its a vanilla stat buff to connect to the face or something that just encourages chump blocking.

Godsend is a card that was designed for flavor. It was used in the story and so they needed a god killing equipment. Beyond that though its useful for making irrelevant creatures into combat monsters which in my mind matters wayyyyyyy more in limited but they put it as a mythic which is kind of like saying its not for limited.
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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Except for the part where Godsend is bad I agree . Godsend was a really weird effect in that it can be chump blocked and even if it wasn't chumped it didn't connect for very good damage in a lot of situations. I would almost say that Godsend was more of a defensive card but not in a good way.
More than anything, it functions very well with Trample, which is not in White's usual wheelhouse. Once you throw Trample in the mix, Godsend gets nasty super fast.

Edit: Missed your response. Yeah, Trample is in other colours... but, we don't always play mono-white ;)
Last edited by Sinis 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Embercleave is probably good in Greven, typically better than temur battle rage, but not strictly. Idk, don't often attack with more than two guys.
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Post by bobthefunny » 1 year ago

Sinis wrote:
1 year ago
More than anything, it functions very well with Trample, which is not in White's usual wheelhouse.
Equipment is white's wheelhouse, and Trample is equipments' wheelhouse... =P

As a person who always keeps a Voltron deck on hand, and not always traditional ones, Embercleave is all sorts of fascinating. It's also terrifying to play against, because it has a strong capability to surprise kill. Double strike spells typically cost 2, and are usually sorcery speed, so even paying 4 or 5 for the equipment is acceptable for a kill. Toss in Seize the Day, and I'm back to my old version of my Vaevictis Asmadi deck.

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Post by umtiger » 1 year ago

Embercleave is looking pretty good with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight

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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

umtiger wrote:
1 year ago
Embercleave is looking pretty good with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Depends on how you build her, I know I'm 100% not running it :p but, for a voltron-esque build it should fit right in (it's kind of expensive though...)

Fires of Invention seems like it has one restriction too many on it for it to be remotely playable. Only 2 spells on your own turn for max # of lands I control? I'd rather just pay the mana. I get that they don't want to accidentally break things, but I feel like they're going too far on some of these cards...
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

I'm not sure what deck I would play Fires of Invention in, but it certainly seems like it could be broken. Free spells are always worth paying attention to. Looking over my own red decks...

Animar - I cast way too many spells to want this.
Samut - turns of Samut's flash, but that deck otherwise seems like a good fit. I'd need to do some testing to see how often I want to cast 3+ spells in a single turn, but I suspect it to not be that often. Minus combo turns, I guess.
Zedruu - nope. Casting instants is too important.
Kess - might test. Shutting down instants is unfortunate, and a lot of my mana comes from mana rocks, which limits what I can cast for free... but I usually don't cast that many spells per turn, and the deck could really use the tempo boost it provides.
Mizzix - nooooope.

Analyzing, it seems best for low-tempo/high-curve decks that operate primarily at sorcery speed, and don't play that many mana rocks. I could see it being good in some Gruul decks that want to play big stompy creatures, such as Xenagos, God of Revels and Ruric Thar, the Unbowed. 'Cast one big spell per turn' is practically the definition of a battlecruiser deck, and getting to instead cast two big spells is pretty powerful for a 4-drop enchantment. Also good if you have mana sinks to dump all of your unused mana into - activated abilities, cracking Clues, using equipment, etc.

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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

I could also see Fires of Invention being useful in a deck where two spells only on your turn is fine because everything else is through activated abilities. So you get to cast those spells for free and save your mana for the abilities.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

soulfire grand master + time warp gets pretty efficient. That's been my coolest idea so far I think.

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Post by Myllior » 1 year ago

How I wish I could play Embercleave in Kefnet; a Fireshrieker with three extra effects would be absolutely amazing.

I'm most excited for Faeburrow Elder though, since I've wanted a Bloom Tender for Derevi for a while but would never justify the cost.

Two thoughts regarding Fires of Invention. Like As Foretold, it lets you get around the suspend costs of cards like Living End, although that seems more relevant to Modern than Commander. Also, I think it's clever to link the CMC of cards you can cast for free to the number of lands you have, so that you can't just immediately run out some form of MLD and take over the game with only that.

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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Uh, you donate Fires then 'geddon.
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Post by Wallycaine » 1 year ago

Serenade wrote:
1 year ago
Uh, you donate Fires then 'geddon.
It doesn't really restrict someone enough to be worth that? It doesn't force anyone to cast using the land based ability, so if they could cast things after armageddon, they only suffer from the "no spells not on your turn" and "two spells per turn" limitations, which don't seem like huge problems after an armageddon.

I do think that seems to be an important factor being overlooked: Fires of invention doesn't force you to use the cast for free ability. If you have something that costs more than the number of lands you have out, you can still use your artifact and regular mana to pay for it. And you'll still get a second, free spell on top of that. It definitely shines best in a deck that has a lot of activated abilities, though.

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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Ah, good point. Unless they play a lot of instants, there are better ways to limit them.
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Post by Dragonlover » 1 year ago

I'd initially discounted it, but after reading the discussion here I might try it in Lathliss. Getting two dragons a turn (which turns into four because Lathliss is an etb trigger) and being able to keep mana up to pump everything seems like a pretty solid call.

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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

Ah, it's true that something with a lot of activated abilities could get some use ot it, didn't consider that. It's still a really rough downside to only cast spells during your turn, but if you have a lot of activated ability interaction, I could see it being decent.
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and some other stuff that are more or less messy


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Post by umtiger » 1 year ago

75chan wrote:
1 year ago
Depends on how you build her, I know I'm 100% not running it :p but, for a voltron-esque build it should fit right in (it's kind of expensive though...)

Fires of Invention seems like it has one restriction too many on it for it to be remotely playable. Only 2 spells on your own turn for max # of lands I control? I'd rather just pay the mana. I get that they don't want to accidentally break things, but I feel like they're going too far on some of these cards...
Having one equipment doesn't make it a "voltron" build. For me, being able to one-shot someone at instant speed is just too much to pass up.

Fires does seem fine for decks that play big creatures or sorceries. The 2-spell restriction seems fine but yes, they could have not put that sorcery speed restriction on there thought.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Fires of Invention might also be useful in a deck that doesn't have a lot of draw but does have a lot of mana dumps. The ability to cast 2 spells a turn with full mana up sounds kind of fantastic.
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Post by Taleran » 1 year ago

This guy seems sweet because it does not just trigger off of Burn

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Taleran wrote:
1 year ago
This guy seems sweet because it does not just trigger off of Burn

Image


Manabarbs coming for your life total
I like him with tokens potentially. Think about a Goblin Bombardment, Outpost Siege, Impact Tremors, or Purphoros, God of the Forge with him in play as well. This is not even mentioning that he lets 1/1 tokens attack as if they were 3/1s.
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Post by Taleran » 1 year ago

even Sharpshooter

Also there are some extremely silly coin flip cards with him on field

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

Sorcerous Spyglass looks like it has potential
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
Sorcerous Spyglass looks like it has potential
Its a solid card, but its also a reprint from Ixilan lol.
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

Linden, the Steadfast Queen. Lovely. I guess I'm rebuilding Darien, King of Kjeldor. :grin:
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

lyonhaert wrote:
1 year ago
Linden, the Steadfast Queen. Lovely. I guess I'm rebuilding Darien, King of Kjeldor. :grin:
Good catch - the perfect definition of a Darien "regeneration shield" from back when I was toying with the build. Pity he's a boltable six drop, he was nice when he worked.
 
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Post by lyonhaert » 1 year ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
1 year ago
lyonhaert wrote:
1 year ago
Linden, the Steadfast Queen. Lovely. I guess I'm rebuilding Darien, King of Kjeldor. :grin:
Good catch - the perfect definition of a Darien "regeneration shield" from back when I was toying with the build. Pity he's a boltable six drop, he was nice when he worked.
Yeah, I don't need him to be incredible, but I want to build it without Soul Warden et. al. and I think the printing of her highness here makes that a really flavorful addition to these other combat lifegain options. One of my favorite plays with the deck before was Sivvi's Valor when somebody tried to fight Darien and their creature to remove Darien. Also I had Cathars' Crusade on the field and Tenacity in hand. I definitely want it to be thematic this time, too.
Rebuilding
r Zada Arcane Storm
rbu Marchesa
To-Build Pool
gwu Estrid
gwr Samut?
urb Kess
{r/w}{u/b} Akiri & Silas
bwr Alesha
r Neheb Dragons
g Nylea Wurm/Hydra
w Darien
u Tetsuko
b The Abyss — a mono-black EDH Discord b

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