Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 6 months ago

Mookie wrote:
6 months ago
I've never found morph cards to be particularly oppressive.
I've played a lot against Animar, Soul of Elements morphs and they're even worse there than Kadena (because Animar's a giant pain in the butt to remove) people just forgot about animar cos he's old school :P Instead of one free per turn and some work, you just get all of them for free forever and then combo off. In Animar's favor they usually combo out so you get a quick death instead of watching the durdles.

Individual morph cards or even a handful as a subtheme are not that bad. When it's all your deck does is abuse the mechanic it's very tiresome. I'm sure there are some cool decks that use it, but my only exposure to actual morph themed decks are Animar and Kadena in many variations. And both are toxic in the extreme.
toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago
Really? They've never been in the game at all when I've played against them. I always thought it was mostly a durdle casual morph tribal commander and nothing more.
The decks you played against might be bad, I dunno, or maybe they just had some bad luck? If they're in the game, they're casting a free dude and drawing a card during everyone's turns and then Ixidron'ing the table and flipping all their own crap back up to draw cards, then flipping stuff up and down to counter lock, or picklesing the table, etc. etc.

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Post by toctheyounger » 6 months ago

pokken wrote:
6 months ago
The decks you played against might be bad, I dunno, or maybe they just had some bad luck? If they're in the game, they're casting a free dude and drawing a card during everyone's turns and then Ixidron'ing the table and flipping all their own crap back up to draw cards, then flipping stuff up and down to counter lock, or picklesing the table, etc. etc.
Sounds like I've been playing bad versions lol
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Post by RedCheese » 6 months ago

Kinda meh on Strixhaven. Not alot of stuff. Only Alibou and Wake the Past really interested me because i'm a Daretti player.

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Post by materpillar » 6 months ago

I got a Velomachus Lorehold|64613 in the pre-release and now I want to build something around him... I just don't know what. I don't have a "bad" pre-con level of deck... so something of that nature, but what? MLD and extra attack steps sound boring to me. Token/polymorph deck? Hrmmmm...

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

pokken wrote:
6 months ago
I've played a lot against Animar, Soul of Elements morphs and they're even worse there than Kadena (because Animar's a giant pain in the butt to remove) people just forgot about animar cos he's old school :P Instead of one free per turn and some work, you just get all of them for free forever and then combo off. In Animar's favor they usually combo out so you get a quick death instead of watching the durdles.

Individual morph cards or even a handful as a subtheme are not that bad. When it's all your deck does is abuse the mechanic it's very tiresome. I'm sure there are some cool decks that use it, but my only exposure to actual morph themed decks are Animar and Kadena in many variations. And both are toxic in the extreme.
Animar in general is kind of combo-tastic. I tried playing him myself when he was new as a non combo concept and he just..... isn't good for much other than going infinite. I doubt the issue is with the morph so much as the combo heavy nature of the commander.
materpillar wrote:
6 months ago
I got a Velomachus Lorehold|64613 in the pre-release and now I want to build something around him... I just don't know what. I don't have a "bad" pre-con level of deck... so something of that nature, but what? MLD and extra attack steps sound boring to me. Token/polymorph deck? Hrmmmm...
I really like his design. I wanted to build it as just somewhat of a controlling deck that comes back from sweepers quickly but it still feels a bit clunky. Most of the sweepers I want leave things in play and it depends a lot on what your opponents are doing as to if you can leave something left in play in a lot of cases. Its a shame he can't run Crux of Fate as its the sort of effect he really wants. There are still a few that seem good like Tragic Arrogance but a lot of them are kind of situational if he isn't killing himself.
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Post by materpillar » 5 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
5 months ago
I really like his design. I wanted to build it as just somewhat of a controlling deck that comes back from sweepers quickly but it still feels a bit clunky. Most of the sweepers I want leave things in play and it depends a lot on what your opponents are doing as to if you can leave something left in play in a lot of cases. Its a shame he can't run Crux of Fate as its the sort of effect he really wants. There are still a few that seem good like Tragic Arrogance but a lot of them are kind of situational if he isn't killing himself.
Most of what I've seen is a Relentless Assault / Armageddon / Narset, Enlightened Master-lite snooze-fest. I'm thinking of going an almost creatureless Goblin Rally + Transmogrify token deck. I've got the most skeleton of a decklist up. I'm going to work on it some more later this evening.

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Post by Cyberium » 5 months ago

materpillar wrote:
6 months ago
I got a Velomachus Lorehold|64613 in the pre-release and now I want to build something around him... I just don't know what. I don't have a "bad" pre-con level of deck... so something of that nature, but what? MLD and extra attack steps sound boring to me. Token/polymorph deck? Hrmmmm...
I'd recommend MLD, such as Cataclysm. Works wonder with cards like Tempting Contract.

EDIT: Oops, just reread your comment, you don't want MLD.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 5 months ago

It's that time again, boyos and girlos.

Urza's Saga

We definitely need ways to cheat Sol Ring and Mana Crypt into play from your library.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 5 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
5 months ago
It's that time again, boyos and girlos.

Urza's Saga

We definitely need ways to cheat Sol Ring and Mana Crypt into play from your library.
That's... an odd land. Gotta get one for emry, I guess...(?)
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
5 months ago
It's that time again, boyos and girlos.

Urza's Saga

We definitely need ways to cheat Sol Ring and Mana Crypt into play from your library.
Honestly, it seems fairly balanced overall. You don't get the Sol Ring/Mana Vault until turn 3 at the earliest, eats your land drop and sacrifices itself eventually so you're really only +1 mana with Sol Ring, and is otherwise a colorless land that doesn't even stick around. It's a neat design, but it's closer to being something ala Ancient Tomb than an extra copy of Sol Ring. And unless your deck is loaded to the brim with those sorts of mana rocks, it can get diminishing returns out of recursion fairly quickly, as you fetch out the important rocks.

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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

It gets skullclamp too, though. And token production could be useful late. Seems strong.

This is just a teaser or something right? Strixhaven just came out.
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
It gets skullclamp too, though. And token production could be useful late. Seems strong.

This is just a teaser or something right? Strixhaven just came out.
Yeah, this is just a teaser, the actual previews don't start until the 24th or so. And Dungeons and Dragons set got some teasers as well, that'll start previews June 29th.

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Post by Krensh » 5 months ago

Image

EDIT: sorry about the image size? I don't know how to fix that x_x

Sigh

This seems... bad? 7 mana for a 7/7 flyer draw 5, but they're all dragons... a famously cheap tribe! It also has that fun Myojin-like restriction of needing to be cast. Idk, I feel like the biggest issues a Commander deck like this faces are not creature tutors or draw, but playing the creatures. Just kind of a bummer that Tiamat, a dragon god of the D&D universe, isn't as good as like, Karametra? Or any of the Praetors? Or even Etali, a derpy looking dinosaur?

The art is very cool!

On a larger level, it's weird/annoying to me that Slivers, a homemade thing by Wizards, have a number of viable commanders, but dragons, a tribe I think most people find cool, have pretty bad commanders on average.

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Post by Mookie » 5 months ago

Some interesting things in the sneak peek.
  • Urza's Saga is an enchantment land - Urza's Saga, among other things. Taps for mana, makes a token (potentially two), and fetches up a trinket. In a vacuum, it's a janky Sol Ring with suspend, and I expect it to see a fair amount of play in decks than can afford a colorless land slot. If you're running a Trinket Mage toolbox, it goes way up in value. Also interesting alongside Life from the Loam effects.
  • Speaking of cheap artifacts to fetch, Portable Hole looks adorable. It doesn't cause the board to explode when combined with Bag of Holding though, so that's a bit of a flavor miss. Probably a bit too limited in targets to see play in EDH, but worth consideration elsewhere.
  • Power Word Kill is an interesting removal option, but I suspect it misses a few too many high-profile creatures.
  • Tiamat is a sweet new option for dragon decks. Probably not as strong as The Ur-Dragon, but certainly worth consideration.
  • ....in the last D&D campaign I was in, the party's paladin had made it his quest to slay Tiamat. Wish I knew how that objective turned out. >.>
  • Vorpal Sword is probably a bit too telegraphed, but I do appreciate the flavor.
  • (edit)Diamond Lion is not its eye, but certainly interesting. Can't fetch with Trinket Mage or recur with Salvaging Station though, so significantly weaker, IMO.
Last edited by Mookie 5 months ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by materpillar » 5 months ago

My Lazav, the Multifarious already runs literally runs Vorpal Sword with Phage the Untouchable. I'll be happy to have a second effect of that, especially considering I've been looking for a deathtouch effect to play well with Masticore.

Urza's Saga is neat. I have a feeling that'll get banned in some constructed format at some point.

Tiamat - "My children will rule over all!" That seems really strong, but the flavor fail hurts me so badly I might not run it.

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Post by duducrash » 5 months ago

https://imgflip.com/i/58ks83

The concept of land sagas is kinda weird. How does it work flavor wise? Also, curious to see if others will come, low curve decks can end up with relevant sagas as anti flood.

I wonder if this makes Ramunap Excavator and Crucible of Worlds seems so easy to abuse with so many extra land drop cards

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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

Krensh wrote:
5 months ago
This seems... bad? 7 mana for a 7/7 flyer draw 5, but they're all dragons... a famously cheap tribe! It also has that fun Myojin-like restriction of needing to be cast. Idk, I feel like the biggest issues a Commander deck like this faces are not creature tutors or draw, but playing the creatures.
Thinking outside the box...

Let's assume you only have 7 lands in play.
Tiamat gets Beledros Witherbloom, Orvar, the All-Form, Wings of Velis Vel, Nameless Inversion, Moritte of the Frost.
Cast Beledros Witherbloom untap lands and play Orvar, the All-Form then target Beledros with Wings of Velis Vel creating a new Beledros.
Beledros Witherbloom untaps lands. Cast Nameless Inversion on Beledros for another untap.
You'll have 13 at this point to spend.
Cast Moritte of the Frost copying Tiamat to get 5 more dragons. Original Tiamat goes back to Command Zone.
Tiamat gets Blades of Velis Vel, Morophon, the Boundless, Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Niv-Mizzet Reborn, something
Cast Blades of Velis Vel on Beledros for another untap.
Cast Morophon, the Boundless then cast Scion of the Ur-Dragon for free.
Activate Scion of the Ur-Dragon for Ramos, Dragon Engine.
Cast Niv-Mizzet Reborn. Ramos, Dragon Engine gets 5 counters so now you can get wwuubbrrgg.
Cast Tiamat again costing 4 getting The Ur-Dragon, Savage Ventmaw, Hellkite Charger, Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Shapesharer.
Cast The Ur-Dragon and Ramos gets 5 counters again, which is enough to cast out Savage Ventmaw for 3 and Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund for 3 which give Ramos 5 counters again and you can finally copy Savage Ventmaw with Shapesharer to officially give you infinite attacks with Hellkite Charger.

Is there an easier way to do this? Probably of course but I have a lot of fun coming up with sequences under tight mana restrictions.
Last edited by darrenhabib 5 months ago, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by EonAon » 5 months ago

Oddly I love brainstone. Now you for 3 mana can brainstorm in any color, just add mana.

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Post by JovialJovian » 5 months ago

I've been a fan of Conch Horn for ages, and Brainstone falls into the same vein, though with the costs swapped. The ability to pull a card out of your hand and put it into your library at will is often underappreciated.

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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

Tiamat is cool, to the dragon pile She goes! Ur-Dragon will be pleased with Her (potential) inclusion. Also, She is the first dragon to be fetchable through The World Tree (outside changelings).

Urza's Saga is an amusing design, I don't know if it will make waves in the format but it seems useful in some artifact builds.
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Post by CommanderMaster999 » 5 months ago

Dragoon wrote:
5 months ago
Tiamat is cool, to the dragon pile She goes! Ur-Dragon will be pleased with Her (potential) inclusion. Also, She is the first dragon to be fetchable through The World Tree (outside changelings).

Urza's Saga is an amusing design, I don't know if it will make waves in the format but it seems useful in some artifact builds.
That's the good news

The bad news it won't trigger the search because if you look at tiamats ability oh yea

She has to be seen as cast for the ETB to work same wording on Zacama, Primal Calamity

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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

CommanderMaster999 wrote:
5 months ago
That's the good news

The bad news it won't trigger the search because if you look at tiamats ability oh yea

She has to be seen as cast for the ETB to work same wording on Zacama, Primal Calamity
Sure, but that's not a problem, just hardcast her in the first main phase, tutor the dragons, then attack and drop one of them on the field. Since you've played Ur-Dragon already, you should have the mana to hardcast Tiamat, and even have some left for a counterspell backup just in case. Alternatively, you can also cast her and tutor the dragons, then next turn cast Ur-Dragon and attack with Tiamat to drop one of the dragons.
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Post by Gashnaw » 5 months ago

Krensh wrote:
5 months ago
On a larger level, it's weird/annoying to me that Slivers, a homemade thing by Wizards, have a number of viable commanders, but dragons, a tribe I think most people find cool, have pretty bad commanders on average.
You like your baby more than another. Dragons are not MTG's baby... Slivers are. It makes sense that they would treat them better.

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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Based on the power level of this FR stuff I think the likelihood the print an autoinclude for one or more of my decks to be pretty high :P meh.

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Post by Gashnaw » 5 months ago

pokken wrote:
5 months ago
Based on the power level of this FR stuff I think the likelihood the print an autoinclude for one or more of my decks to be pretty high :P meh.
Well tiamat has already become an autoniclude.kn dragon tribal. Along with some brews happening.

I am curious what else we will see. But like others, tiamat is going in my ur-Dragon deck.... Just need to figure out what I am gonna remove.

Kinda wish it was not a. Cast and ETB and just an ETB

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