Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Moonlighter
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Post by Moonlighter » 5 months ago

Is Theoretical Duplication going to be a pile of 'must answer' value for any blue deck that runs it? Free dorks, free combo pieces, etc. Maybe I'm not seeing something, but it feels like nonstop value for

EDIT:
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
5 months ago
Damn, simic wins again. Gaze upon the inequity between precons, ye players, and despair.
This is my feeling, too.

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Post by Mookie » 5 months ago

Moonlighter wrote:
5 months ago
Is Theoretical Duplication going to be a pile of 'must answer' value for any blue deck that runs it? Free dorks, free combo pieces, etc. Maybe I'm not seeing something, but it feels like nonstop value for
Not sure where you're getting 'nonstop value' from - it only lasts for one turn. I would assume that the default use case is 'copy target creature spell, your opponent will cast no more creature spells this turn'. There are certainly some situations where you can get more value (ex: an opponent casts Living Death / has a Brago, King Eternal trigger / is trying to do a combo), but the floor seems just fine.

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Post by brainface » 5 months ago

Well, you can cast the living death/warp world yourself, that seems like worst case scenario (at 8+ mana).

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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Mookie wrote:
5 months ago
Moonlighter wrote:
5 months ago
Is Theoretical Duplication going to be a pile of 'must answer' value for any blue deck that runs it? Free dorks, free combo pieces, etc. Maybe I'm not seeing something, but it feels like nonstop value for
Not sure where you're getting 'nonstop value' from - it only lasts for one turn. I would assume that the default use case is 'copy target creature spell, your opponent will cast no more creature spells this turn'. There are certainly some situations where you can get more value (ex: an opponent casts Living Death / has a Brago, King Eternal trigger / is trying to do a combo), but the floor seems just fine.
From the "must answer" part, I'm guessing they thought it was an enchantment, which, would be quite the nutty pile of must answer.

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Post by Moonlighter » 5 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
From the "must answer" part, I'm guessing they thought it was an enchantment, which, would be quite the nutty pile of must answer.
That is correct. They did not check to see whether I could read before I joined the forum.

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Post by MeowZeDung » 5 months ago

I do think it's a great card nonetheless. I mean, when's the last time you played a game where there were 0 creature decks? So, the floor is you'll almost always get some fatty or value critter for way below rate. The first thing I thought of when I saw it was using it against the Gishath, Sun's Avatar, Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded, and Roon of the Hidden Realm decks in my meta. There will definitely be some insane return on mana with that spell.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Ok seriously, whoever keeps printing the word "double" on every single stupid card these days needs to leave. I'm so sick of exponential value.

Esix, Fractal Bloom looks like yet another "kill it right now or the game is over commander" Whee. (btw what's the point of excluding himself exactly? Besides the fact that you'd need mirror gallery/sakashima to make it even work, it wouldn't really add anything.)

Spawning Kraken...idk, maybe I'm way off-base here, but I think there's some archetypes that are kind of silly by design. The best example would be wall tribal, previously helmed exclusively by Doran, the Siege Tower. It was awful, but also kind of hilarious when it worked. It was fun because it was challenging. And then WotC was like "hey, how about we take something that was funny, and instead just make it a viable strategy?" And we got Arcades, the Strategist, and now the funny thing is just...a thing. And I feel the same about sea monster tribal. I always felt like it was kind of stupid and bad by design. But now sometimes it's going to be "oh, oops, I just put 42 power into play on turn 5...hope someone has a board wipe". Not everything needs to be competitive, wotc. Can't we just leave well enough alone?
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Post by Guardman » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
Ok seriously, whoever keeps printing the word "double" on every single stupid card these days needs to leave. I'm so sick of exponential value.
You can blame MaRo for that.


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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Yeah I cannot say I am a fan of doubling, tends to create functionally infinite situations a bit much.

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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

To me doubling feels like the sort of thing that appeals to someone who is a...let's say "math enthusiast" who just really likes big numbers and never got over it. For my money, magic is at its best when it's relying on small, discrete numbers.
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Post by Cyberium » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
To me doubling feels like the sort of thing that appeals to someone who is a...let's say "math enthusiast" who just really likes big numbers and never got over it. For my money, magic is at its best when it's relying on small, discrete numbers.
Doubling is fine until someone doubles a few loops, or a few infinite. I don't like how WotC is pushing for infinite, though Maro said in the past that he's not fond of "politics", maybe this is how he adds solitaire into EDH.


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Post by duducrash » 5 months ago

RE : Theoretical Duplication seems powerfull but seems like hell to keep track of the boardstate in non arena formats

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Post by tstorm823 » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
To me doubling feels like the sort of thing that appeals to someone who is a...let's say "math enthusiast" who just really likes big numbers and never got over it. For my money, magic is at its best when it's relying on small, discrete numbers.
As a math enthusiast myself, this is exactly who it appeals to. But I also think the naysaying of doubling effects going on is a tad overblown when compared to decades of "when/whenever" chains and loops (which to be fair, I also partake in). At least in a world where the big flashy plays are making things double, the game actions are still fairly succinct. Small, repeated incremental value triggers take so much more time to do.
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

tstorm823 wrote:
5 months ago
As a math enthusiast myself, this is exactly who it appeals to. But I also think the naysaying of doubling effects going on is a tad overblown when compared to decades of "when/whenever" chains and loops (which to be fair, I also partake in). At least in a world where the big flashy plays are making things double, the game actions are still fairly succinct. Small, repeated incremental value triggers take so much more time to do.
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

How does one acquire the borderless C21 cards?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
How does one acquire the borderless C21 cards?
Collector boosters, I'm guessing?
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

JWK wrote:
5 months ago
Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
How does one acquire the borderless C21 cards?
Collector boosters, I'm guessing?
That was my guess as well. I just can't deal with a foil Osgir.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by Candlemane » 5 months ago

New cards for the Silverquill deck are up. I have to say I'm a little disappointed with the reprint includes. Really couldn't have put a Ophiomancer into the deck, huh wizards? Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker? Zetalpa, Primal Dawn is not the card we needed in here... again.

Over all I think some of the newer cards are cool. Felisa, Fan of Silverquill seems okay, though the lines of play are going to be less the unique. Black Sun's Zenith will be awesome with it. It's kind of like a WB Hapatra, but with less initial combo power.

Nils, Discipline Enforcer seems okay, though his effect on a fragile creature isn't the best.

Loki... I mean, Fain, the Broker looks extremely abuseable with Thornbite Staff. With ability to give two counters, he comes out ahead of the rest of the abilities in short order.

There are some Black steal stuff from exile cards I like, including Author of Shadows and Cunning Rhetoric. White got some deal making cards, to cards to help people catch up like Scholarship Sponsor.

Overall though not including the new cards I find the deck without a playtest and in a vacuum a bit lacking, but I guess that's what upgrades are for. Still, I'm kind of peeved that they didn't take the opportunity to reprint Ophiomancer. I was really hoping for that (and Smothering Tithe, but that was along shot with the new card and playing into the politics aspect of the deck).
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Not very impressed with the new silverquill cards unfortunately. Only one that makes me excited at first blush is Inkshield. I've always wanted a full damage-redirection fog, and this does that except x2 and with permanents. Sweet way to turn the game around and win from behind.

EDIT: Keen Duelist gets runner-up. Getting double-draw with an ally seems strong. And lethal in @materpillar's Golos Esika list lol.
Last edited by DirkGently 5 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 5 months ago

This card. Inkshield.

Man, that reminds of Gorz, Emissary of Darkness from Yu-Gi-Oh! If you had an empty field, it had a triggered ability that anytime you received damage you could plop it onto the battlefield for free (it was the equivalent of a 6/6).

But not only do you get a free 6/6, but you also get an additional ETB effect.

If you took direct damage, Gorz inflicts the same amount of damage to your opponent.

But if you took combat damage, Gorz creates a token with power and toughness equal that damage

So you ended up with ridiculous situations with both players holding Gorz in their hands and refusing to commit anything to the field, each hoping the other would do something so they can plop out Gorz.

Also, I'm not comfortable with what Stinging Study is depicting here, and the broader implications of what life is like under Silverquill.

Also watch me as I die because my commander's Iname as One

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Post by agawin61 » 5 months ago

Ive been looking at the silverquill comments and I agree with a lot of these. The silverquill deck isn't as cool as it could have been. Ohrzohv +1/+1 counters could have been so better. there are a looooooooot of cards I can think of. Who else thinks it was a let down??? (At least quantum quandrix looks great! Im gonna preorder it I think)

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Post by kirkusjones » 5 months ago

Keen Duelist and Stinging Study are going to be fun in Vilis, Broker of Blood. You don't get to kill me, I get to kill me.

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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Personally, I'm really excited for Felsia, Fang of Silverquill. Token generation and +1/+1 counters combining is one of my favorite things, and as a 3/2 with mentor, she's pretty good at getting those counters onto creatures. It's also neat to see her really reward you for loading up on a single creature, which a lot of the +1/+1 counter dies triggers don't do. Fain, the Broker is pretty neat too. Lots of interesting trades to build around, and obviously you create profit the further around the ring you go.

As far as non Legends go, Combat Calligrapher is pretty neat, since at a base level it'll make a 2/1 flyer on each of your combats. Giving your opponents 2/1's in multiplayer is usually at worst neutral, and definitely plays into the political theme. I also really like that it's one of the political cards that *doesn't* suddenly suck in 1v1, since it just reverts to an inkling machine with some trinket text. I like the idea of political cards, but often end up playing 1v1 just due to limited opportunities, so having something that's still serviceable in 1v1 while still having fun political implications is nice. Same for Promise of Loyalty: it works fine as a Divine Reckoning card that comes with a bonus permanent Guard Duty in 1v1, and works better in multplayer. Inkshield is just fun overall, though, and I love how much Stinging Study can scale. Keen Duelist doing damage based on your card to the opponent (and based on their card to you) is a neat touch as well.

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Post by materpillar » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
EDIT: Keen Duelist gets runner-up. Getting double-draw with an ally seems strong. And lethal in @materpillar's Golos Esika list lol.
This is the card I'm most excited about in all of these command products / strixhaven in general. Can't wait to flip Draco and murder someone. I might flip it back to Golos and just accept that I can't play it in super duper chill games. My experience with Esika hasn't been nearly as enjoyable.

In other news, someone is going to cast Combat Calligrapher and accidentally house my Changeling deck too.

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