Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Oh, I'm pretty sure this was done on purpose for that very reason.
 
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

I don't get all the hate on Embercleave. It's stronk, and our lil buddy Fervent Champion picks it up for free. Great add to the knights brawl deck too.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

The hate is not because of the card itself, but rather because of the fact it's supposed to be Excalibur of all things. And it's... well, it's a card, a pretty decent sword, but people have elevated expectations of what Excalibur would be. It's kind of Ulrich of the Krallenhorde all over again.
 
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 years ago
The hate is not because of the card itself, but rather because of the fact it's supposed to be Excalibur of all things. And it's... well, it's a card, a pretty decent sword, but people have elevated expectations of what Excalibur would be. It's kind of Ulrich of the Krallenhorde all over again.
Sounds like a case of heightened expectations that couldn't have possibly been met.
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
Sounds like a case of heightened expectations that couldn't have possibly been met.
We could just alter Godsend and pretend it's Excalibur.

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Post by SocorroTortoise » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
We could just alter Godsend and pretend it's Excalibur.
Having both that and Embercleave on the same creature sounds delightful, incidentally.
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
2 years ago
Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
We could just alter Godsend and pretend it's Excalibur.
Having both that and Embercleave on the same creature sounds delightful, incidentally.
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Post by 75chan » 2 years ago

I like Embercleave (I don't have anywhere to run it though).

Mirrormade is nice. I'm mostly running Copy Artifact as a colored signet with massive upside, but not sure if the extra mana is worth the flexibility, but I'll try it out. It's probably good enough, but I'll figure that out along the way. Yay for a third card to tryout ^^
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Embercleave looks fantastic for most any red commander who has an incentive to attack. I am surprised its not more expensive as it does look really solid. Red kind of has a lot of incentive to turn sideways and this card adds a hell of a lot of power.

Not to say that Fireshrieker is amazing, but this card costs the same to set up when attacking (or less) and it sets up like a combat trick that can blow people out as a surprise not to mention just having altogether more benefits to it.

From a commander standpoint, I really thought this card was going to start out somewhere in the $10-15 range given it is a mythic so I was very happy to preorder them at $5.
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Post by Rorseph » 2 years ago

75chan wrote:
2 years ago
Mirrormade is nice. I'm mostly running Copy Artifact as a colored signet with massive upside, but not sure if the extra mana is worth the flexibility, but I'll try it out. It's probably good enough, but I'll figure that out along the way. Yay for a third card to tryout ^^
My "Big Blue" style decks welcome another 3 mana "Copy Artifact" effect. And it will likely be a more budget friendly choice to boot. Very nice.
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Post by rogerandover » 2 years ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
2 years ago
Dance of the Manse is a nice effect. I do wish they'd stop printing the "payoff" of animating all of your artifacts/enchantments. One of the strengths of enchantments is that they're more difficult to remove than creatures, so opening them up to twice the removal is almost never something I want to do, especially in this format where 6 4/4 creatures isn't enough to end a game most of the time.
Though, it'll be nice to have another Opalescence effect to make tricks with Mirrorweave :grin:

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Irencrag Feat is interesting. 4:7 is a solid rate for a ritual, but only getting one payoff spell is a significant limitation.

The Magic Mirror is potent if you can get it out cheap. I'll probably want to test it in Kess. Might also test in Mizzix, although it may be a bit too attention-grabbing. I've tested Mind Unbound before, and it usually draws an amount of hate vastly disproportionate to how good it is.

Vantress Gargoyle is sort of cute.

Dance of the Manse excites me greatly - I'm always a big fan of mass reanimation effects. Animating the recurred things is somewhat disappointing - opens then up to creature removal, and turns off tap abilities due to summoning sickness. Salvaging Station and Sphinx of the Steel Wind both get significant downgrades from it. I do want to throw it in Sharuum though - will probably just try to keep things to X=5 or less, which is enough to reanimate most things.

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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
From a commander standpoint, I really thought this card was going to start out somewhere in the $10-15 range given it is a mythic so I was very happy to preorder them at $5.
Can I ask where you're preordering singles from? My usual suspects are not offering much, or are already sold out...

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Post by SocorroTortoise » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
Can I ask where you're preordering singles from? My usual suspects are not offering much, or are already sold out...
Not sure what your usual suspects are or if you're in the US, but it's available around that or less on SCG and TCGplayer so I'd imagine most places running preorders have it listed.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
From a commander standpoint, I really thought this card was going to start out somewhere in the $10-15 range given it is a mythic so I was very happy to preorder them at $5.
Can I ask where you're preordering singles from? My usual suspects are not offering much, or are already sold out...
I preordered from cardkingdom but I happened to have caught it right when it went up. It looks like the pre orders are up to $8 each now on that site.

I often don't pre order at all unless I come across something that I feel is put up too low. It does look like TCG has some good prices right now though.
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
I preordered from cardkingdom but I happened to have caught it right when it went up. It looks like the pre orders are up to $8 each now on that site.
One of my usual suspects (Face to Face games) has them up now, and I scooped one up for $6 CDN (along with the Harmonious Archon for $4).

Honestly, Embercleave one of the cards I'm most excited about. I don't expect it to be a savage combat trick for RR most of the time, but... I could pay 2RR for this action, too. It's not especially demanding, and looks to be very good at what I want it to do.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
I preordered from cardkingdom but I happened to have caught it right when it went up. It looks like the pre orders are up to $8 each now on that site.
One of my usual suspects (Face to Face games) has them up now, and I scooped one up for $6 CDN (along with the Harmonious Archon for $4).

Honestly, Embercleave one of the cards I'm most excited about. I don't expect it to be a savage combat trick for RR most of the time, but... I could pay 2RR for this action, too. It's not especially demanding, and looks to be very good at what I want it to do.
Yea, honestly I am not big for pre ordering cards as often their starting prices are kind of high. I know that commander cards don't often rise in price quickly but in my mind, Embercleave might be one of the best commander cards we have seen from this set so far as far as just being good in a variety of decks. The amount of power it adds to red aggressive decks is HUGE in comparison to what red often gets for commander.

It might not become a money card, but it doesn't change that its a fantastic card with a lot of potential uses across a lot of different decks. Some of the commanders that jumped to my mind quickly for it being: Aurelia, the Warleader, Xenagos, God of Revels, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, Greven, Predator Captain, Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, Godo, Bandit Warlord, and Neheb, the Eternal.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

I've usually strayed from pre-orders, the main recent example that ballooned after hitting the shelves is Smothering Tithe. I remember Fatal Push was preordering for a pittance for a while this side of the pond as well, which was surprising. Most of the time stuff dips after you give it a few weeks/months in the open, and preorder prices are the highest the cards see for quite a few moons. I was going to use Sire of Stagnation as a blatant example of this, but the bugger tripled in price over the summer and is now about a third of his original asking price rather than absolute bargain bin fodder :P
 
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 2 years ago

I'm all about combat tricks that stick around and I play plenty of aggressively slanted red lists. Unless there's something super telegraphed, my experience is that people don't play around combat tricks in this format. Embercleave is definitely going to catch people off guard, at least for the first game.

On preorders, I stay far away 90% of the time. For every card that balloons in price on release, there are a dozen that tank within a week of the set dropping. I'm OK playing it safe and getting stuck paying a little more occasionally. I also play with mostly foils and preorder trends are even worse for those the vast majority of the time.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 years ago
I've usually strayed from pre-orders, the main recent example that ballooned after hitting the shelves is Smothering Tithe. I remember Fatal Push was preordering for a pittance for a while this side of the pond as well, which was surprising. Most of the time stuff dips after you give it a few weeks/months in the open, and preorder prices are the highest the cards see for quite a few moons. I was going to use Sire of Stagnation as a blatant example of this, but the bugger tripled in price over the summer and is now about a third of his original asking price rather than absolute bargain bin fodder :P
Yea, it does suck when something blows up but most of the time its due to standard or modern that prices of cards go up. Its not that commander doesn't drive prices of new cards but it tends to play less of a role given that you only need a copy per deck for this format. You tend to see commander drive prices after a few years (after its not in print). You still see some commander price driving but it tends to not be as much.

Smothering Tithe in my mind is somewhat of an outlier. We don't see many cards rise in price like this one did due to commander. Obviously it does still happen but standard set releases tend to not have a lot of immediate commander price driving.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 years ago
The hate is not because of the card itself, but rather because of the fact it's supposed to be Excalibur of all things. And it's... well, it's a card, a pretty decent sword, but people have elevated expectations of what Excalibur would be. It's kind of Ulrich of the Krallenhorde all over again.
Sounds like a case of heightened expectations that couldn't have possibly been met.
maybe, but I'm not great or even good at telling how good a card is, but for me personally I was hoping for something with maybe an anthem effect. I may slot it into my Akiri, Line-Slinger cheat it into play with any number of cards.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

I might be able to find a use for Irencrag Feat and Mirrormade will automatically go into my enchantment deck. It's a good cost since it combines both copy enchantment and copy artifact
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Post by Sinis » 2 years ago

SocorroTortoise wrote:
2 years ago
On preorders, I stay far away 90% of the time.
For non-sealed stuff, I agree. I preorder Commander decks (and the brawl decks).

However, I think Embercleave might be comparable to Godsend. Which isn't a fortune, but, it's not bulk, either.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

Sinis wrote:
2 years ago
SocorroTortoise wrote:
2 years ago
On preorders, I stay far away 90% of the time.
For non-sealed stuff, I agree. I preorder Commander decks (and the brawl decks).

However, I think Embercleave might be comparable to Godsend. Which isn't a fortune, but, it's not bulk, either.
Except for the part where Godsend is bad I agree :P . Godsend was a really weird effect in that it can be chump blocked and even if it wasn't chumped it didn't connect for very good damage in a lot of situations. I would almost say that Godsend was more of a defensive card but not in a good way.
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Post by bobthefunny » 2 years ago

BOVINE wrote:
2 years ago
Questing Beast + Constant Mists is a fun blowout combo. Really hard to stop Mists outside a counterspell. Even then, bringing back a card is easy for green. Throw in Titania, Protector of Argoth and you've got yourself a little action
I honestly just can't wait for someone to block with a creature equipped with Sword of Feast and Famine.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
Except for the part where Godsend is bad I agree :P . Godsend was a really weird effect in that it can be chump blocked and even if it wasn't chumped it didn't connect for very good damage in a lot of situations. I would almost say that Godsend was more of a defensive card but not in a good way.
You take that back!

Godsend was actually one of the reasons I built Roon of the Hidden Realm voltron deck. +3 makes him 7 power, and between Godsend's exile, and Roon's blink, the opponent would need to throw 3 creatures in front just to soak up any damage at all, otherwise it all tramples through.

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