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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 month ago

Commander Spoilers Day 2: Electric Red-Blue Boogaloo
  • Veyran, Voice of Duality is... interesting. Magecraft triggers being copied is intriguing, but not sure if there are any other uses for it. Storm off with Aetherflux Reservoir twice as fast, I guess?
  • Dazzling Sphinx is cool, but I've played enough with Chaos Wand to think it is a trap.
  • Inspiring Refrain and Rousing Refrain are both a fun way to repeatedly trigger the Prismari 'MV 5+' abilities. Both are obviously a bit on the slow side, but a cool variant on the Arc Blade cycle. Inspiring seems alright as a janky draw engine - draws two cards every three turns, which seems reasonable for a suspend cost of 3 mana. Meanwhile, Rousing is a free ritual every three turns, which seems.... very abusable.
  • Muse Vortex is an Epic Experiment variant, but only casts one of the revealed spells - a pretty significant limitation. Probably better to treat it as a slightly narrow draw spell that isn't super low-tempo. On the other hand, you don't lose the spells you can't cast, so works well if you're expecting to hit a bunch of X spells or high-MV spells.
  • Creative Technique is a snap include for cascade.dec. Two free spells is.... extremely abusable.
  • Radiant Performer is Radiate on a creature. I feel like I rarely see Radiate actually played outside combo shenanigans, so presumably this will just act as redundancy for it. On the other hand, being a creature opens up new combo possibilities (similar to Dualcaster Mage), so... it does only trigger if you cast it from hand though, which limits things significantly.
  • Rionya, Fire Dancer is awesome. Casts a free Heat Shimmer with storm every turn, which is sort of absurd. Sort of like a spellslinger Feldon of the Third Path.
  • Surge to Victory is... probably win-more, but it's also an extremely potent way to cheat out nonsense for any go-wide deck.
  • Elementalist's Palette is a potent mana rock for decks with lots of X spells. Two charge counters per spell scales very quickly.
  • Reinterpret is alright. A bit expensive for a counterspell, but high tempo from the free spell. Seems fun.
....overall, looks like an interesting spellslinger-ish deck. Lots of way to cast stuff for free. I'd say that Rionya is my favorite of the new cards in the deck, but there are a lot of abusable options.

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 1 month ago

Man... I want Surge to Victory in my high CMC deck so bad.

Army of the DamnedSurge to Victory targeting Army of the Damned!
I just want to cast so many Soulfire Eruptions and Kaboom!s

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 1 month ago

Rionya, Fire Dancer is going to be quite good in Brudiclad.
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5colorsrainbow
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 1 month ago

I'm really liking a lot of these for Will and Rowan and loving the mix of creature filling in, ramp and different ways to get pay offs for your instant and sorceries.
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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 month ago

Surge to Victory feels like the Craterhoof Behemoth of red. If you even have a few creatures on the board it's going to spell trouble.
This is where Creative Outburst and Magma Opus are big spells you can get to your graveyard without having to cast first.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 month ago

Yeah, that Lorehold reprint list is almost everything in my old Jor deck. Probably will not get now.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

Inspiring Refrain is neat. I assume it'd going to be an incomplete cycle, sadly. Looking back at the old ones, they're so comically underpowered compared to these two new ones. The green one is especially heinous - 5 mana SORCERY giant growth? Incredibly easy to counter with removal, and you can see it coming from a mile away? Ouch ouchy ow it's so bad. Ironically one of the rare cases of white having the best card in the cycle.

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 month ago

Damn, simic wins again. Gaze upon the inequity between precons, ye players, and despair.

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 month ago

I have same issues with Quandrix decks as with Prismari: Too many triggers, too many copies, and Quandrix is worse because there's both magecraft triggers AND token triggers. I can see they're being loyal to the theme, but all these triggers are going to slow the game down and create unwanted confusion.

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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 1 month ago

Cyberium wrote:
1 month ago
I have same issues with Quandrix decks as with Prismari: Too many triggers, too many copies, and Quandrix is worse because there's both magecraft triggers AND token triggers. I can see they're being loyal to the theme, but all these triggers are going to slow the game down and create unwanted confusion.
Wait until someone casts a kicked Rite of Replication targeting Adrix and Nev, Twincasters while Sakashima of a Thousand Faces is already copying them. xD (If my math is correct, you end up with 22 versions of the twins, making 2^22 = 4 194 304 times the normal number of tokens)
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 1 month ago

Hah! Gyruda name drop!

Also, as the guy who wanted Sultai tokens, this set is becoming my dream come true. First the whole Quandrix thing, then the Witherbloom Elder Dragon, and now these.

That Curiosity Crafter is everything I hoped for.

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Post by materpillar » 1 month ago

Spawning Kraken seems pretty good with Changeling Outcast.

Yeah, this card will murder people really fast with some Changelings. I'm excited.

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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 1 month ago

Spawning Kraken seems like the absolute best pay-off for a Changeling deck, right? Utvara Hellkite eat your heart out.

I'm most excited by Perplexing Test - an Evacuation-lite that can also have its symmetry broken in a tokens.dec. I've been waiting years for a new instant-speed "boardwipe", and while I think this is worse than Evac in a controlling deck it's a lot more fun in more midrangey decks.

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MeowZeDung
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Post by MeowZeDung » 1 month ago

Kykar is hyped for Perplexing Test! Plenty of good stuff in the prismari deck too.
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 month ago

And here I just wanted to pair Spawning Kraken with Serpent of Yawning Depths.

It would not make the cut in my current enchantment builds, but I do like Paradox Zone as another green enchantment token generator. Maybe with Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse...
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 1 month ago

Hawk wrote:
1 month ago
Spawning Kraken seems like the absolute best pay-off for a Changeling deck, right? Utvara Hellkite eat your heart out.
It isn't the absolute best pay-off because it's going to be hard to top the line of text "you win the game". Also, triggering off of combat damage is dramatically less abusable than triggering off of ETB. For example, if I have Hibernation Sliver and a 1-mana Changeling I'd rather have Lathliss, Dragon Queen/Reaper King on the battlefield.

It's really really strong though. It's going to demand immediate removal/wrath or it will end the game in very very short order.

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 1 month ago

Spawning Kraken is gonna be fun in my Halana & Sakashima deck I think. Being able to have multiple Spawning Kraken in play at once might spiral out of control a bit.

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Post by agawin61 » 1 month ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
1 month ago
Wallycaine wrote:
1 month ago
Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
1 month ago


It's not a replacement effect; Serpentine Curve puts a 0/0 token into play, then puts the counters on it.

If it were a replacement effect, it would have read "it enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it", like the wording on Hydras and similar 0/0 creatures with counters.

With the Twincasters, all of Quandrix's spells that create Fractal tokens will create two 0/0 tokens, then put the counters on only one of them.
Zaxara, the Exemplary uses similar wording ("create a 0/0 hydra, then put X +1/+1 counters on it") and when a replacement effect doubles the tokens, you put it on both. Last ruling on their gatherer page: "If an effect, such as that of Parallel Lives, causes Zaxara's ability to create multiple Hydra tokens, they each receive X +1/+1 counters."
Hmmm, I see.

But on taking a closer look, Zaxara's ability that puts counters on its Hydra token is separated from its token-producing clause by a comma, while all the Fractal spells have a period. It suggests that Zaxara's counters ability is tied to its token-producing ability, while the Quandrix spells' counter ability isn't. Zaxara's ruling might not apply to the Fractal spells.

I must say, Zaxara's wording is a bit funky, I'm surprised they went with that ruling, honestly.
Thing is, Zaxara says "Then put X +1/+1 counters on it. That makes it Zaxara's ability not the newly made hydras, and if that's duplicated than it should be with fractals as well. I rest my case.

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 1 month ago

Spawning Kraken will be fun in my Aesi sea monsters deck, So, so good with Koma! And of course it's yet another thing that makes me want to do Ur-Dragon tribal. I've played against a couple different versions now and found them fun to play against and looking fun as hell to pilot, plus we have such a great primer for it here.

Kinda bummed they didn't use this deck as an opportunity to reprint Parallel Lives , but I guess they thought that would attract too many card speculators.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 month ago

Oversimplify seems pretty good in Simic. Exiling the board is strong. Yes, it makes a bunch of beefy tokens but I feel like that is easy to manage.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 month ago

I'm pretty underwhelmed by most of the new Quandrix cards. There are a few that interest me, but I'm not that excited by beefy-but-vanilla tokens.

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Post by tstorm823 » 1 month ago

Replication Technique is sweet before considering the demonstrate part. 5-mana omni-clone is already almost on-rate. The limit to targeting your own things only holds it back, but then you consider the demonstrate part, and that limitation is actually a sweet strategic change, making the decision of which opponent to give a copy actually a lot more complicated, because if you could both target anything, you just pick the weakest opponent nearly every time. The other demonstrate spells I think are a lot more straightforward in who to target.
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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 1 month ago

agawin61 wrote:
1 month ago
Thing is, Zaxara says "Then put X +1/+1 counters on it. That makes it Zaxara's ability not the newly made hydras, and if that's duplicated than it should be with fractals as well. I rest my case.
Oh, I'm pretty sure that's what intended, yes.

I meant that Zaxara has a comma separating the token-creation clause and the counter-placing clause, which clearly indicates the token-producing ability is linked with the counters:

"create a 0/0 green Hydra creature token, then put X +1/+1 counters on it."

Similar to cards which create tokens in certain states, like a tapped Zombie token or a token that's put into play and attacking. Naturally, if duplicated by the Twins' ability, the ability would produce two tokens with those characyeristics/states, like two tapped Zombie tokens, or two Goblin tokens that are tapped and attacking.

However, all of the Quandrix spells/abilities have a period separating the token ability from the counter ability, suggesting (at least to me) that this was a separate ability.

"Create a 0/0 green and blue Fractal creature token. Put X +1/+1 counters on it, where X"

Compare, for example, this hypothetical spell:

"Create a 2/2 green Bear creature token. Regenerate it. It fights target creature you don't control."

This sort of wording would lead me to think that if the token-production were to be doubled, two Bear tokens would be produced, but only one regenerates, and fights.

Again, this is clearly not the case, but it was what I interpreted from the wording.
Last edited by Sporegorger_Dragon 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.

agawin61
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Post by agawin61 » 1 month ago

Sporegorger_Dragon wrote:
1 month ago
agawin61 wrote:
1 month ago
Thing is, Zaxara says "Then put X +1/+1 counters on it. That makes it Zaxara's ability not the newly made hydras, and if that's duplicated than it should be with fractals as well. I rest my case.
Oh, I'm pretty sure that's what intended, yes.

I meant that Zaxara has a comma separating the token-creation clause and the counter-placing clause, which clearly indicates the token-producing ability is linked with the counters:

"create a 0/0 green Hydra creature token, then put X +1/+1 counters on it."

Similar to cards which create tokens in certain states, like a tapped Zombie token or a token that's put into play and attacking. Naturally, if duplicated by the Twins' ability, the ability would produce two tokens with those, like two tapped Zombie tokens, or two Goblin token that are tapped and attacking.

However, all of the Quandrix spells/abilities have a period separating, suggesting (at least to me) that this was a separate ability.

"Create a 0/0 green and blue Fractal creature token. Put X +1/+1 counters on it, where X"

Compare, for example, this hypothetical spell:

"Create a 2/2 green Bear creature token. Regenerate it. It fights target creature you don't control."

This sort of wording would lead me to think that if the token-production were to be doubled, two Bear tokens would be produced, but only one regenerates, and fights.

Again, this is clearly not the case, but it was what I interpreted from the wording.
I see what your saying. the wording and grammar is misleading, but I think since its tied to the card(Zaxara) and not to the token(Hydra), it should work the same with fractals.

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Post by Sporegorger_Dragon » 1 month ago

A simple solution would be to use Zaxara's wording (comma, then), or use "and":

"Create a 0/0 green and blue Fractal creature token and put X +1/+1 counters on it, where X"

Or even:

"Create a 0/0 green and blue Fractal creature token. It enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it, where X"

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