Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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RxPhantom
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Post by RxPhantom » 1 month ago

I think I might be in love with the mechanics of this set even though I'm not sold on the flavor yet.
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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 1 month ago

Exponential Growth ... I think the time has come for me to play Xenagos, God of Revels :P
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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 month ago

Dragoon wrote:
1 month ago
Exponential Growth ... I think the time has come for me to play Xenagos, God of Revels :P
I might use it in a Prossh deck, since he pumps himself.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 month ago

Looks like today is Silverquill day?
  • Vanishing Verse is an efficient conditional removal spell. Ultimate Price is pretty bad (since it misses most commanders, and multicolor creatures are common), but adding the ability to hit planeswalkers and enchantments is relevant.
  • Fracture is... a bit less exciting, but can be a relevant Disenchant variant if you care about planeswalkers.
  • Exponential Growth is... very capable of killing people.
  • Mentor's Guidance is a mildly interesting Divination variant.
  • Bookwurm is sweet. Not particularly high-powered, but seems like a fun card for lower-powered formats.
  • Pilgrim of the Ages is a white Borderland Ranger variant. Self-recursion makes it somewhat interesting, even if it is very expensive. Reminds me a bit of Eternal Dragon. I assume it's for triggering 'when a card leaves your graveyard' effects in limited.
  • Show of Confidence is a storm payoff in white, which is not a thing I was expecting. Only counts instants / sorceries though.
  • Double Major is somewhat cute, and another way to get a copy of a legendary creature.
  • Dramatic Finale is interesting. Only triggering once per turn is certainly a downside, but the tokens being both white and black plus the anthem effect means I'm interested in testing it in Teysa.
  • Access Tunnel is a cheaper Rogue's Passage. I'm already running that card in my Thada and Brago decks, so definitely seems relevant. That said, I also use Rogue's Passage in Thada for getting in with massive beaters, so not sure if I would want to swap it there. Hmmm... Seems excellent in general though.
  • Silverquill Silencer is mildly interesting. Name an opponent's commander and hope they cast it multiple times? Probably too niche, but I like the design.

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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 1 month ago

Cyberium wrote:
1 month ago
I might use it in a Prossh deck, since he pumps himself.
So let's say ... Prossh, Skyraider of Kher on turn 5 with 6 Kobold tokens. Next turn, sacrifice all the tokens, making Prossh an 11/5 then cast Exponential Growth for X=2 and attack for 44 commander damage. Yep, seems legit. :P
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JWK
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Post by JWK » 1 month ago

Exponential Growth will be so good in Animar...
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 month ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 month ago
You're ignoring the other two opponents who got nothing out of the whole exchange. Again, 3 cards is an average of 1 per opponent, so you're up +1 cards relative to the rest of the table.
I don't care much about them because they get nothing. An average of 1 card per opponent is still 3 cards for opponents combined and only +2 for you. I'm not following now averaging free cards over multiple players, which SR doesn't, leaves you with more cards than the target opponent drawing 3. I guess I'm looking at it as an entire table, not card per opponent.

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea is net +0 for me if I get a card and my opponents each get a card.
Desolate Lighthouse is net +0 for me if I get a card and have to discard one.
Geier Reach Sanitarium is net +0 for me if I and each opponent get a card and have to discard a card.

Which is better? All are Net +0 for me if averaging cards per opponent. Even when averaging, Mikokoro, in my opinion, puts me -2 on the table because I draw 1 and the rest of the table draws a cumulative 3.

Of course we want our opponents to use those new found resources to disrupt anyone other than us, which could happen, or not.

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Post by FenrirRex » 1 month ago

I'm enjoying the various fractal generators- specifically that they are counting or interacting different zones or resources. So far we have fractals as big as your hand, the number of lands you own, the number of instants and sorceries in your yard, counting the mana value of exiled cards, the number of fractals you control, and your whole library. The math school is at least real good at making sure you know how to count.

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Post by Hermes_ » 1 month ago

Dragoon wrote:
1 month ago
Exponential Growth ... I think the time has come for me to play Xenagos, God of Revels :P
*adds it to 98 forest Omnath, Locus of Mana *
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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 1 month ago

So....Killian seems like an amazing aura general. Totem armor and the black recursion auras generate some staying power. Pretty excited to give him a whirl.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 month ago

A few more things....
  • Selfless Glyphweaver is a bit weaker than Selfless Spirit, but acting as a board wipe in the lategame is certainly interesting.
  • Blot Out the Sky is very interesting to compare to Martial Coup. The tokens entering tapped is certainly a downside, but being bigger and evasive is relevant. Kills noncreatures instead of creatures, so not a direct comparison, but I'd definitely like to test it out in Teysa.
  • Mila, Crafty Companion is... interesting, primarily due to the 'when your creatures are targeted, draw a card' ability. I'd be strongly in favor of shifting Shapers' Sanctuary to white. Unfortunately, on a Lorehold / Boros card, so can't run in a mono-white deck, but still good. Lukka is also a thing, I guess - the (-2) reanimating a creature is pretty unique, and not something red usually has access to. Hasty Etali, Primal Storm / Inferno Titan?
  • Mavinda, Students' Advocate does a sweet Feather, the Redeemed impression - cast an instant / sorcery from your graveyard every turn. extra mana for spells that aren't targeted is... an extremely steep cost though.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

Why isn't Mavinda, Students' Advocate worded as "Once per turn, you may cast an instant or sorcery spell from your graveyard. If that spell doesn't target a creature you control, it costs 8 more to cast this way. If a spell cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."?

Lukka seems kinda weak sauce to me. His emblem is an already that already exists for the same cmc. It's nice that it can't be removed, but for the effort of ulting him I'd hope you get value than if you'd just played the enchantment in the first place. And his other abilities seem like they'd fit comfortably on a 3-4 drop planeswalker.
PrimevalCommander wrote:
1 month ago
Which is better? All are Net +0 for me if averaging cards per opponent. Even when averaging, Mikokoro, in my opinion, puts me -2 on the table because I draw 1 and the rest of the table draws a cumulative 3.

Of course we want our opponents to use those new found resources to disrupt anyone other than us, which could happen, or not.
When averaging, Mikokoro literally doesn't put you -2, it puts you +0. That's not really a matter of opinion so much as a matter of math?

I should think that intuition should make it clear that a symmetrical draw doesn't, on average, improve or lower your odds of winning. Everyone drawing 1 card is basically a neutral effect. If it's not clear why, then the obvious question would be, if your win% got lower, then who gained? One of the 4 players is always going to win the game (barring Divine Intervention), so the total win% of all 4 players always adds to 100%. If everyone gets the same benefit, then the chance for each player doesn't change and the effect benefits no one.

(ofc this is just on average, irl someone might draw a way more important card than another)

So moving from there, I should hope it's clear why Secret Rendezvous is much much better than a symmetrical effect like Vision Skeins. You and the targeted player will both gain win%, while the other two players will go down. And assuming you're being smart in your targeting, even without politics you should be able to minimize the impact by choosing someone who will get the least benefit.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 month ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 month ago
Why isn't Mavinda, Students' Advocate worded as "Once per turn, you may cast an instant or sorcery spell from your graveyard. If that spell doesn't target a creature you control, it costs 8 more to cast this way. If a spell cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."?
Because this doesn't limit anything. Karador and Muldrotha both say "once per turn" (well, more or less anyway) but having both allow you to cast 2 creature cards. The same would happen here with your wording. Each activation adds a "once per turn" effect so you just get to keep adding permissions.
Lukka seems kinda weak sauce to me. His emblem is an already that already exists for the same cmc. It's nice that it can't be removed, but for the effort of ulting him I'd hope you get value than if you'd just played the enchantment in the first place. And his other abilities seem like they'd fit comfortably on a 3-4 drop planeswalker.
I like his first ability for actual card draw. I was thinking of trying him in Marchesa where I don't mind creatures in the yard. Even his reanimation isn't terrible which is the main reason I am thinking of trying him in Gisela. And, of course, the Emblem seems really good there too. I do admit 6 mana is quite steep so it isn't like he is a shoo-in by any means but it might still be worth it.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 month ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 month ago
Why isn't Mavinda, Students' Advocate worded as "Once per turn, you may cast an instant or sorcery spell from your graveyard. If that spell doesn't target a creature you control, it costs 8 more to cast this way. If a spell cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."?
Because this doesn't limit anything. Karador and Muldrotha both say "once per turn" (well, more or less anyway) but having both allow you to cast 2 creature cards. The same would happen here with your wording. Each activation adds a "once per turn" effect so you just get to keep adding permissions.
I confess I still don't get it. Either way you get to cast 1 spell per turn, right? I know there's some minor differences (for example, if you have a Scavenging Ooze it's a lot easier to stop Mavinda than Kess) but overall they still seem identical? What do you mean "you just get to keep adding permissions?"

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 month ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 month ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 month ago
Why isn't Mavinda, Students' Advocate worded as "Once per turn, you may cast an instant or sorcery spell from your graveyard. If that spell doesn't target a creature you control, it costs 8 more to cast this way. If a spell cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead."?
Because this doesn't limit anything. Karador and Muldrotha both say "once per turn" (well, more or less anyway) but having both allow you to cast 2 creature cards. The same would happen here with your wording. Each activation adds a "once per turn" effect so you just get to keep adding permissions.
At a guess, Dirk is suggesting it as a static ability, similar to Karador and Muldrotha, rather than changing the wording of the activated ability. As far as why they didn't go with that... I'd speculate that they wanted grave hate (and even more specifically targeted grave hate) to have a chance to work against it. With a blanket, static permission, there's basically no way for something like Scavenging Ooze to stop Mavinda, Students' Advocate once there's a handful of targets in the yard. With the activated ability, the grave hate card actually gets the upper hand, while still allowing the Mavinda player the ability to hope/work for a shields down moment.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 month ago

@DirkGently @Wallycaine

Well that makes more sense. I was still thinking Dirk was using that wording with the activated ability so my comment probably doesn't apply. I think those differences Wallycaine mentioned are probably the main reason. And, while it likely isn't the biggest reason, without targeting, it plays differently with MDFC's (which, arguably, might be a point in the nontargeted effect's favor).

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Post by Wallycaine » 1 month ago

I'd also add that it might be something to make the digital implementation/playing easier. If you've got a pile of instants and sorceries in your graveyard, but the extra 8 mana makes them uncastable, the Kess style wording would make them all show up in your hand on arena anyways, possibly crowding out your actual hand and making it annoying to play/navigate. Making it a 0 cost activated ability means you only use it when you're ready to cast something. It's also quite possible that the interaction with MDFC's was a consideration as well, and they wanted to prevent confusion or abuse.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 month ago

Hmm well I don't like it. Unnecessarily activated abilities are ugly imo.

Gnarled Professor is certainly an efficient teacher. He just walks in the room and everyone's like "ohhh, now I understand fractions".

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Post by Couver » 1 month ago

I got so excited when I saw Mascot Exhibition because I thought it would help trigger Happily Ever After in mono white but then read it again and realized there was no green in there. Why or why didn't they let it make a fractal token too?

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Post by Moonlighter » 1 month ago

Couver wrote:
1 month ago
I got so excited when I saw Mascot Exhibition because I thought it would help trigger Happily Ever After in mono white but then read it again and realized there was no green in there. Why or why didn't they let it make a fractal token too?
Guess you've just got to EDIT: Generous Gift a land to win. It's extra work, I know.
Last edited by Moonlighter 1 month ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 month ago

Couver wrote:
1 month ago
I got so excited when I saw Mascot Exhibition because I thought it would help trigger Happily Ever After in mono white but then read it again and realized there was no green in there. Why or why didn't they let it make a fractal token too?
Fractal tokens are 0/0, so it would just die anyway. They probably could have included a pest token though. I suppose they only wanted french vanilla tokens on the card?

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Post by Couver » 1 month ago

A friend reminded me that you could just Generous Gift something of your own to get a green token. A lot of hoops but I'm going to try it!

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Post by WizardMN » 1 month ago

Couver wrote:
1 month ago
A friend reminded me that you could just Generous Gift something of your own to get a green token. A lot of hoops but I'm going to try it!
If you are fine with that, Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII seems like it should be in the deck. It can help with any color you might not have a permanent of yet. Still janky but an option.

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Post by darrenhabib » 1 month ago

Selfless Glyphweaver seems to be Teyo, the Shieldmage. Great card btw, will find a place for my decks that tend to run Selfless Spirit and black.

Mila, Crafty Companion // Lukka, Wayward Bonder does have a lot going on. That emblem is no joke and not that hard to ultimate.
It is a bit of a flavor fail that Mila can't actually protect Lukka :(

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Post by Couver » 1 month ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 month ago
Couver wrote:
1 month ago
A friend reminded me that you could just Generous Gift something of your own to get a green token. A lot of hoops but I'm going to try it!
If you are fine with that, Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII seems like it should be in the deck. It can help with any color you might not have a permanent of yet. Still janky but an option.
Oh my gosh, thank you! I was searching Gatherer all afternoon but never came accross this.

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