Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 5 months ago

Ecological Appreciation seems pretty gross. I'm not terribly invested in the exercise, but I'm sure the gifted/inspired among us will figure out a way to make it foolproof shortly. Cheating the unchosen straight into play is a fair trade for the loss of agency, I think.
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BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 5 months ago

Moth wrote:
5 months ago
Got some thoughts about new cards:

Wandering Archaic is Tron's newest answer to Prowess, effectively shutting down their early game creatures as long as they can survive to cast it.

Resculpt could go in a mighty brew with its friend Ensoul Artifact. Targeting your own Memnite, Ornithopter or Darksteel Relic to have a 5/5 / 4/4 on T2 looks playable.

Dragon's Approach is ridiculous. I've got ideas of a mono-red self-mill brew using Hollow One as backup with all the self-mill favourites such as Goblin Lore and Burning Inquiry to speed out Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and Dragon Mage.
Uh, you seem to have found the wrong thread. Does Tron even exist in Commander? Is that a thing?
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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 5 months ago

Moonlighter wrote:
5 months ago
That said, I think Verdant Mastery could see some solid play. It's a bit late game for a lot of metas, but I think it'll do work, especially with the reduced cost mechanic. Neat stuff!
Verdant Mastery looks like a neat card, but I can't imagine there are many decks where I'd choose to play that over Skyshroud Claim, Hunting Wilds, Pir's Whim, etc etc. There will be SOME decks that are happy to pay 6 for 2 basics in play and 2 in hand, though.
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Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

Is that a squirrel at the bottom of Ecological Appreciation?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
Is that a squirrel at the bottom of Ecological Appreciation?
Acornelia, Fashionable Filcher believes it is!

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 5 months ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
5 months ago
Ecological Appreciation seems pretty gross. I'm not terribly invested in the exercise, but I'm sure the gifted/inspired among us will figure out a way to make it foolproof shortly. Cheating the unchosen straight into play is a fair trade for the loss of agency, I think.
I accidentally hit the "thanks" button instead of the "reply" button the first time, so enjoy! :P

As far as the card goes, I think in order for it to really be broken it'll need to be able to be foolproof, as you say, for a fair bit lower cost than Tooth and Nail. I'm sure there will be piles to do it for like X = 3 or something, though, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this be popular.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by BeneTleilax » 5 months ago

If nothing else Verdant Mastery is another way to dump Sorrow's Path path on someone.
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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 5 months ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
5 months ago
If nothing else Verdant Mastery is another way to dump Sorrow's Path path on someone.
Basic lands only, I'm afraid.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

ZenN wrote:
5 months ago
Moonlighter wrote:
5 months ago
That said, I think Verdant Mastery could see some solid play. It's a bit late game for a lot of metas, but I think it'll do work, especially with the reduced cost mechanic. Neat stuff!
Verdant Mastery looks like a neat card, but I can't imagine there are many decks where I'd choose to play that over Skyshroud Claim, Hunting Wilds, Pir's Whim, etc etc. There will be SOME decks that are happy to pay 6 for 2 basics in play and 2 in hand, though.
I would point out that even at the 4 cmc slot, Verdant Mastery has the upside of grabbing 3 lands over Skyshroud and Hunting Wilds, so it technically beats them out on card advantage. Whether that's worth the downside of donating a basic is obviously a big question mark, but it's not *strictly* worse than those two.
Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
Is that a squirrel at the bottom of Ecological Appreciation?
I believe so!
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
5 months ago
Ecological Appreciation seems pretty gross. I'm not terribly invested in the exercise, but I'm sure the gifted/inspired among us will figure out a way to make it foolproof shortly. Cheating the unchosen straight into play is a fair trade for the loss of agency, I think.
Honestly, I don't think it'll be that broken? The fact that it exiles itself *and* puts the two cards chosen back in the library rather than the graveyard are both huge safety valves on this sorta thing. It's very hard to have 4 card combos where any 2 will function together, which is why most Gifts Ungiven or Intuition combos rely on having elements of recursion to ensure you get the cards you actually want. A lot of the time, this feels like it's going to play out more toolboxy: you grab 3-4 cards that all help you deal with X situation, rather than trying to get a combo. Something like grabbing a pile of "etb kill a dude" creatures to help deal with a problem creature, or 4 different ramp creatures to get a leg up. You might be able to force the choice slightly with a pair of combo creatures, but most combos don't run 3 versions of each side, so it'll rarely be an instant win.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

....guys, Verdant Mastery enables landwalk shenanigans.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
....guys, Verdant Mastery enables landwalk shenanigans.
lol
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 5 months ago

I also like the "fixed" Thrasios they printed in Simic colors... Sorry Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy, you'll immediately draw the hatred of people who hate Simic generic draw cards + play lands in the Command Zone.

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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Strixhaven Stadium looks very interesting politically. Obviously, at a baseline, it's a crappy mana rock, but the alt kill condition of "hit players with dudes 10 times" is super achievable, and it even helps cut down on how much you need with the tap ability. The downside is that it probably makes you a target, which means you need to be a deck that can defend from random attacks, or just gain so many counters that it doesn't matter. And there's some cute options for stuff like building up counters on a less defended/more cooperative player, and then just getting the last point against the player you both want to kill.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Hmm, Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy is kinda appealing to me moreso than Aesi/etc. I'm not sure if it's more or less annoying than Maelstrom Wanderer though :P I have a current RUG lands deck, I wound up dismantling the Omnath deck pretty fast since another guy in my playgroup has the same deck, so I might give this a try. The power level seems to be there. Also the interaction with Seedborn Muse is kinda my jam =P

At least it's not so absurdly overpowered it'll immediately spawn a billion decks, since it's probably overall worse than Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait and Tatyova, Benthic Druid at the same thing.

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cheonice
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Post by cheonice » 5 months ago

benjameenbear wrote:
5 months ago
I also like the "fixed" Thrasios they printed in Simic colors... Sorry Zimone, Quandrix Prodigy, you'll immediately draw the hatred of people who hate Simic generic draw cards + play lands in the Command Zone.
Yes, I'm one of those players, who hates Thrasios and Kinnan. But she is a solid design, looks like an interesting character, has broad implications, and is not really oppressing. I really like her!

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 5 months ago

@ZenN

Tbh, I was wondering what was so likeable about my comment, but I'm not above accidental accolades either!
Current EDH Decks: DirkGently's Phelddagrif
Current cEDH: Selvala Brostorm
Retired EDH: Korvold, Goreclaw, Emry, ISBPathfinder's Sythis
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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

I wonder how I can fit Dragon's Approach into my The Ur-Dragon deck or if i even should
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
Strixhaven Stadium looks very interesting politically. Obviously, at a baseline, it's a crappy mana rock, but the alt kill condition of "hit players with dudes 10 times" is super achievable, and it even helps cut down on how much you need with the tap ability. The downside is that it probably makes you a target, which means you need to be a deck that can defend from random attacks, or just gain so many counters that it doesn't matter. And there's some cute options for stuff like building up counters on a less defended/more cooperative player, and then just getting the last point against the player you both want to kill.
This makes me want to run a random Karn's Bastion in my decks, so when someone tags an ally to add a ninth counter I can go "hang on a sec, before that trigger resolves..."

Very cute mana rock, I don't think it'll be TOO annoying? But a 3 cmc rock that can win the game is definitely nothing to be ignored. Could end up being a problem?

Zimone is a far tamer version of the draw + ramp simic thing. Can't imagine anyone getting too upset about her. The fact that it's a tap ability, and it costs mana, means that she's very unlikely to be oppressive imo.

Oh yeah and we have a third rupture spire. Yay?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 5 months ago

Ecological Appreciation looks pretty solid. Anything X=3 or higher and you are even, or cheating on mana value. Good toolbox card that can be political. Getting 2 of the best 2-4 drops in your deck directly into play could easily be worth the card. I can think of several piles at 2 and 3 that would be worth the mana even without a known boardstate.

What happens if you run out of creatures and can't find 4 of them? Maybe you already tutored/played all but 3 of your creatures at that cmc and can't complete the requirement. I assume the spell fizzles and you wasted the mana and card. Same for the card that searches 4 basics.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Fervent Mastery

So can we unban gifts ungiven now?
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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FenrirRex
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Post by FenrirRex » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
Fervent Mastery

So can we unban gifts ungiven now?
I mean, super Gamble will actually hit some fail points, gifts generally doesn't. It looks a lot more like a randomized Final Parting than a Gifts Ungiven, and that card is far from breaking the format.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

FenrirRex wrote:
5 months ago
I mean, super Gamble will actually hit some fail points, gifts generally doesn't. It looks a lot more like a randomized Final Parting than a Gifts Ungiven, and that card is far from breaking the format.
Good point, we should have unbanned gifts after final parting didn't do anything to the format :P
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

FenrirRex wrote:
5 months ago
DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
Fervent Mastery

So can we unban gifts ungiven now?
I mean, super Gamble will actually hit some fail points, gifts generally doesn't. It looks a lot more like a randomized Final Parting than a Gifts Ungiven, and that card is far from breaking the format.
Yeah, I'm really not seeing the connection. The primary problems with Gifts is reliability (it's fairly trivial to make it into tutoring for a 2 card combo) and Instant speed (letting it fire off EoT before you untap and play the combo). Fervent Mastery does... neither of those things. There's no choice involved, it's purely random. You can pad the numbers a little by fetching redundant things and holding extra cards in hand, but there's always a chance that all the cards you want in hand end up in the grave and all the ones you want in the grave end up in hand (And casting it on an empty hand just gets you a bad Buried Alive). It's not even card advantage, and it certainly isn't an instant to allow for tutoring your combo at EoT.

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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

That Strixhaven Stadium looks like it will be right at home in a Derevi, Empyrial Tactician deck, with the combat damage triggers and the tap/untap shenanigans.

I like the new turbo-charged Gamble, it might see play in decks like Daretti, Scrap Savant or Feldon of the Third Path?
Decklist(s) on this forum: WUBRG [Golos] Maelstrom 2: Erratic Boogaloo (randomness themed deck) WUBRG

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Does turbo charged gamble create a 1 card combo with
Unburial Rites Auriok Salvagers and Lion's Eye Diamond ? Feels like it to me.

re: Final Parting / Gifts Ungiven

parting lets you pick which one goes in the bin and guarantee it without spending mana on recursion so functionally it's very close to the same mana for combos as Gifts Ungiven

so you can final parting for Reanimate and Razaketh, the Foulblooded for example, whereas with Gifts you have a lot more hoops to jump through for that (since they can put the fattie in your hand and you the need a way to discard it). Same with combo pieces, they put the most inconvenient thing in your hand.

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