Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 5 months ago

Re: Semester's End - Ghostway and Eerie Interlude already exist, so I'm not really a fan. I guess that also hitting planeswalkers is new, but this isn't a new effect.

Hofri Ghostforge is awesome. Luminous Broodmoth not being a legend was a bit of a miss, but Hofri brings double-dipping to the command zone in style. I'm a sucker for aristocrats strategies, and getting a second trigger off Thraben Inspector / Charming Prince / Zealous Conscripts / Karmic Guide seems excellent. Plus, there's the 'but wait, there's more!' aspect of being a commander for spirit tribal - haste is a very powerful keyword to grant. I'd need to do some research to see what spirits work best with him, but I'll call him out as an include Kykar, Wind's Fury decks.

....is Hofri enough for me to finally make a Boros deck? Probably not, but it's certainly tempting.

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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Mookie wrote:
5 months ago
Re: Semester's End - Ghostway and Eerie Interlude already exist, so I'm not really a fan. I guess that also hitting planeswalkers is new, but this isn't a new effect.

Hofri Ghostforge is awesome. Luminous Broodmoth not being a legend was a bit of a miss, but Hofri brings double-dipping to the command zone in style. I'm a sucker for aristocrats strategies, and getting a second trigger off Thraben Inspector / Charming Prince / Zealous Conscripts / Karmic Guide seems excellent. Plus, there's the 'but wait, there's more!' aspect of being a commander for spirit tribal - haste is a very powerful keyword to grant. I'd need to do some research to see what spirits work best with him, but I'll call him out as an include Kykar, Wind's Fury decks.

....is Hofri enough for me to finally make a Boros deck? Probably not, but it's certainly tempting.
Amusing/annoying note: Karmic Guide, while primarily an angel, is also a spirit, and thus won't get to double dip under Hofri Ghostforge. Huh... in the process of writing this, I realized he actually doesn't specify non-spirit, I'd just inserted that myself. That definitely makes him a lot stronger, and makes his tribal element even more appealing. I'd also note that he works particularly well with "steal and sacrifice" plans, since you get the trigger if he's out when you sacrifice someone else's creature (it'll still go back to their graveyard when the token dies, but still solid value).

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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
Taxing triggered abilities? I like it! (Strict Proctor)



.....or is it going to be annoying like Smothering Tithe?
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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
I'd also note that he works particularly well with "steal and sacrifice" plans, since you get the trigger if he's out when you sacrifice someone else's creature (it'll still go back to their graveyard when the token dies, but still solid value).
Interestingly enough, the wording does specify "return the exiled card to its owner's your graveyard". Is it a sign that it somehow doesn't work with other people's creatures? Or is it simply an oversight?
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Dragoon wrote:
5 months ago
Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
I'd also note that he works particularly well with "steal and sacrifice" plans, since you get the trigger if he's out when you sacrifice someone else's creature (it'll still go back to their graveyard when the token dies, but still solid value).
Interestingly enough, the wording does specify "return the exiled card to its owner's your graveyard". Is it a sign that it somehow doesn't work with other people's creatures? Or is it simply an oversight?

Likely just an oversight/leftover.

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Post by tstorm823 » 5 months ago

It should be noted, Mark Rosewater teased a white card that said draw three cards, and we got Cathartic Reunion with white added for a "gain 2 life".
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

tstorm823 wrote:
5 months ago
It should be noted, Mark Rosewater teased a white card that said draw three cards, and we got Cathartic Reunion with white added for a "gain 2 life".
Double checked, Mark clarified that it's a mono-white card in the teaser.

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Post by Venedrex » 5 months ago

Thanks for looking into that, I was really disappointed about the idea of that being the case, but now I'm back to being excited for the new card!


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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 5 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
5 months ago
Codie, Vociferous Codex

This card rules. Gonna build me Book Tribal.
On one hand, it's it's another colorless commander that ramps and has a 5-color activated ability that casts spells for free.

On the other hand, it's a book. If you run Fling, you can literally throw the book at your opponents.

...also, 'you can't cast permanent spells' is... a very significant line of text.

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Post by Cyberium » 5 months ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
5 months ago
Codie, Vociferous Codex

This card rules. Gonna build me Book Tribal.
The "can't cast permanent spell" limit is there only when Codi is in play, I assume we can still fill our decks with permanents, leaving only a few key instant/sorcery to ensure they'd fire?

EDIT: NVM, just realized that even for the ability to trigger you need to cast an instant/sorcery first. That'd be difficult in above arrangement.

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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

I like Codie, Vociferous Codex but that first line of text is certainly hard to work with. :thinking:
Cyberium wrote:
5 months ago
EDIT: NVM, just realized that even for the ability to trigger you need to cast an instant/sorcery first. That'd be difficult in above arrangement.
Technically, you can temporarily exile Codie, then cast your spell and it will still trigger.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Easy. Activate codie, sacrifice all your permanents, cast a permanent spell, hit your only instant sorcery which is Restore Balance. Losing friends achieved.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
Easy. Activate codie, sacrifice all your permanents, cast a permanent spell, hit your only instant sorcery which is Restore Balance. Losing friends achieved.
You evil monster :P (they will probably still have cards in hand though)
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 5 months ago

Aaaaaand the futureshifted card is.... (drumroll) Grinning Ignus! Sorry to everyone that predicted Bonded Fetch, better luck next time.

Magnum Opus is extremely interesting. An eight mana instant is pretty hard to slot in most decks, but it does generate a fair amount of value. However, the alternate mode for generating a treasure is very interesting design, and makes it a lot easier to slot in decks, since it isn't dead in the early game. Hard to say whether it's actually good (rituals are better for generating mana, big draw spells will be a better mana sink in the lategame), but the flexibility makes it worth consideration. Does seem like a plant for Standard though - looks like the UR theme is 'big spells matter', and this is a way to have an expensive spell that isn't dead in the early game.

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Post by materpillar » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
Easy. Activate codie, sacrifice all your permanents, cast a permanent spell, hit your only instant sorcery which is Restore Balance. Losing friends achieved.
My thought was lands deck + Mistveil Plains + Time Warp + Spitting Image


I'm extremely pleased Codie has a huge downside. More magic cards need huge downsides. It makes it so much more interesting.

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Post by kirkusjones » 5 months ago

Codie looks interesting. I have a feeling it'll end up finding a home in Golos decks more often than being the alternative to the Boogey Golem, though.

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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

I think that "adventure" cards allow you to somewhat get around restrictions of Codie, Vociferous Codex.
Because they are considered creature cards except on the stack you can cast them (as instant or sorcery) and guarantee hitting something other than an adventure.

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Post by Dunharrow » 5 months ago

To me Codie wants one of two things (or both)
1. You cast Fractured Identity targeting Codie.
2. You play a ton of cycling creatures and one-mana spells and cast a big Living End. Though the above idea of Restore Balance is also good.
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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Mookie wrote:
5 months ago
Magnum Opus is extremely interesting. An eight mana instant is pretty hard to slot in most decks, but it does generate a fair amount of value.
MagMA opus. It's a pun, you see.

Idk, honestly that card looks extremely weak to me, as an 8 mana instant and as a main-set mythic. In general I think stapling a bunch of weaker effects together in one expensive bundle doesn't generally work out very well in commander - you want to explode in a particular direction to overwhelm your opponents when you're casting something this expensive. 4 damage split is a decent answer if it was like 2 mana, at 8 it's going to be pretty incidental. You can't just sit on on 8 mana answer all the time to stop someone's creature-based combo. Tap 2 permanents, same thing but worse. Make a 4/4, yeah ok that's a body I guess but we're on 8 mana now so it's pretty much garbagio. And draw 2 cards...well, obviously that's a nice thing to have but we spent 8 flippin mana and that's realistically the most significant mode. Pretty damn weak imo.

I mean I like flexibility too, but how much better is even some random hardly-played uncommon like Lay Claim? Turning into a card is a hell of a lot better than a treasure imo, and despite the number of effects on opus, I'd take one GOOD effect, like stealing a permanent, over them in a heartbeat. And it costs 1 less and it's not multicolored.

Idk, maybe if you're planning to copy the jesus out of a spell it gets a bit more interesting, but at 8 it's going to be a tall order to copy it unless your opponents are letting you keep a Swarm Intelligence on board or something. If this was a regular rare I'd shrug and go "eh, wotc's always gonna make some trash rares" but I really don't get it as a mythic. It looks just awful to me.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Guardman » 5 months ago

I don't think you are supposed to pay the eight mana for Magma Opus. I see this more like Shark Typhoon, you are meant to use the treasure creation mode most of the time. And when you do cast it, it is supposed to be free from your graveyard via something like Efreet Flamepainter or Mizzix's Mastery .

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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

To be fair, I think Magma Opus isn't intended as a commander card. You can probably play it here, but as a mythic, it's more of a constructed shot, and specifically standard. There, it plays 2 roles: As Guardman mentioned, it lets you have a high mana value spell in your graveyard to cast for free off something like Efreet Flamepainter, or exile for Torrent Sculptor to make a massive body, without having to go through the hoops of running other cards to discard it. And once you do flood out and end up at 8 mana, the variety of modes means that it's never dead, and can create blowouts in a 1v1 format. For example, wait for them to swing, then blow up 1 or more dudes, produce a 4/4 blocker, and draw some cards for your trouble. Or alternately, point the burn at the face and tap down their blockers for basically 8 free damage, which while piddly in Commander, is a significant chunk in 20 life formats. It's a versatile spell that's almost always going to be an effective 4 for 1, and that's solid in smaller formats.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Guardman wrote:
5 months ago
I don't think you are supposed to pay the eight mana for Magma Opus. I see this more like Shark Typhoon, you are meant to use the treasure creation mode most of the time. And when you do cast it, it is supposed to be free from your graveyard via something like Efreet Flamepainter or Mizzix's Mastery .
Except shark typhoon's cycle mode is quite good whereas 2 to make a treasure is not.

That is a good point about potentially casting it from grave, could well be we'll have an izzet commander who enables that. Even with something like mizzix's master it seems very meh to me though. Make it cost 5, at sorcery speed, and cost an extra card? Eh...seems ok for standard but I'm not feeling it for commander, at all.

Anyway you can totally cycle Lay Claim and then get it back with Open the Vaults too. It's not like this is a unique ability. Every cycling spell does kinda the same thing, except that generally permanents are a lot easier to cast/return to play from graveyard than instants are.

I'm assuming standard viability totally depends on support, but personally I'm betting against it unless we get some major cast-spells-from-graveyard themes.

EDIT: weird, Creative Outburst does the same thing. Maybe it will be a theme? Seems pretty weird otherwise.

explosive welcome also has a crazy high cmc. I'm assuming there's some justification behind this that we'll see at some point.

Kinda reminds me of how Hearthstone had an archetype or two that payed you off just for having big spells in your hand even if you didn't cast them. Wonder if it'll be something like that, or if it'll be a spell-reanimator thing, or something else.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 5 months ago

I hope there's more treasure-making izzet cards. I've been itching to play Storm the Vault, but, it never seems to work out.

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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

Mage Hunter is probably a meta call. Nice to see life loss instead of damage from it as well.
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