Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Post by brainface » 7 months ago

Kinnnda wish they hadn't included "or copy" in the magecraft text there.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 7 months ago

Zada (and the other generals who are basically partners for Zada) should get some neat tricks from it. I'm unsure if it will make Kess combo pubstompers worse, considering the three risk factors I see for pubstomp decks/mechanics. I don't think it will get people who otherwise play well to start making obnoxious decks with her, I don't think it will make it easier for obnoxious decks to get into casual games and I don't think it's worse to play against than any of the existing multitude of spellslinger/combo pubstomp decks (admittedly a low bar).

Honestly, since around 2019, I'm more worried about blandly overpowered goodstuff cards than hyperlinear combo pieces. Maybe my experience is unique, but casual tables have been much better at prohibiting and limiting Ghave and Sharuum while Golos and Chulane have gotten past and become the new boogeymen.
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Post by Mookie » 7 months ago

Personally, I'm predicting a lot of overlap between magecraft triggers and landfall triggers, especially at lower rarities. On the other hand, prowess exists, which means we may not see many generic '+1/+1 until end of turn' triggers. Hmmm...

....magecraft-Lotus Cobra would be pretty dumb, but I suppose we just got Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty.

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Post by Dunharrow » 7 months ago

I could see Magecraft - target player mill two cards
Maybe they will all be variants of classic storm cards. We have Tendrils of Agony. All we need is Grapeshot, Brain Freeze, Mind's Desire and Dragonstorm.

There have been a few rituals in Standard this year so I think we are looking at "standard storm".
Storm enablers;
- Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty
- Jorn, God of Winter // Kaldring, the Rimestaff
- Tundra Fumarole
- Irencrag Feat and Open the Omenpaths are weird but since this is not traditional storm maybe they can work.
Rosethorn Acolyte // Seasonal Ritual can be something depending on the triggers.
Double Vision seems amazing with magecraft.

So ya... they have been signalling standard storm for a while and I have to imagine that magecraft is going to impact a ton of formats. I don't think Professor Onyx is an exception. There will be a grapeshot for sure.

This is going to be fun for spellslinger decks. I am not worried about chain of smog upsetting commander but I would love it if there was a 1 or 2 mana value card that went infinite with Chain of Smog... just to see chain of smog banned in Legacy (which would be hilarious).
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Post by Toshi » 7 months ago

Storm-Kiln Artist
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My god, if this ever hits the board in Zada, Hedron Grinder lists...

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Post by kirkusjones » 7 months ago

Spoiler
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down goes Chain of Smog (in legacy)

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Post by folding_music » 7 months ago

irritating when you fall directly into one of these gamer demographics, but I'm thoroughly Witherbloom =P Valentin and Lisette is the loveliest card I've ever seen

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Post by Cyberium » 7 months ago

Magecraft is such a lazy mechanic.

Thus far, Shadrix Silverquill is the only one I'm interested in building a (few) deck with. I'm a sucker for versatile and multiplayer friendly legends.

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Post by Dragoon » 7 months ago

I really like the design of Shadrix Silverquill. I just find double strike a bit odd since the trigger is not combat damage related, I guess it's to exploit his potential +1/+1 counters?

I also welcome Plargg, Dean of Chaos/Augusta, Dean of Order in my Golos random deck. Both faces can prove useful and that deck really needs stuff lower in the curve. :P
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Post by Mookie » 7 months ago

Wheeeee, spoiler season.

Learn // lesson is... interesting. In general, rummaging is pretty weak, so I'm not that excited for it in EDH. On the other hand, getting free cards from outside the game is extremely strong (as seen with companion), so I would expect it to show up in Standard. The lesson cards themselves don't look to be particularly efficient (compare Introduction to Prophecy vs Preordain), but if the initial learn card is fair, that doesn't really matter.

Keywording ward is solid. As they pointed out in the ward article, it's pretty hard for creatures to see play that don't have an immediate board impact. Slightly less relevant in EDH due to the relative frequency of targeted removal vs mass removal, but still quite good. Does depend somewhat on whether or not it will show up on creatures worth protecting though.

As for cards...
  • Shadrix Silverquill is very interesting. All the modes are great, but needing to target an opponent too can make it somewhat awkward. Best-case scenario, you put a +1/+1 counter on each creature belonging to an opponent with no creatures... or you can make a deal with someone and be a bit more diplomatic, which seems on-theme for Silverquill. Seems sweet.
  • Plargg, Dean of Chaos seems fun too, and definitely in consideration for my Samut deck. Rummages, gets free spells... and the backside untaps all my creatures on attack.
  • Uvilda, Dean of Perfection seems a bit less powerful than Jhoira of the Ghitu... but the backside being Stolen Strategy in the command zone seems pretty solid.
  • Valentin, Dean of the Vein is an extremely impactful 1-drop that I expect to see a lot of play. Very annoying to play against, I expect, unless you don't care about your dying creatures being exiled.
  • Kianne, Dean of Substance is fine. Back side drawing cards is good, front side conditionally getting lands to hand is just okay. Can make some very beefy tokens though.
  • Shaile, Dean of Radiance is a bit less exciting for me, but it can pump up your team or act as a draw engine, so the floor is high.
  • Archmage Emeritus is quite solid for a spellslinger deck.
  • Storm-Kiln Artist is the predicted Lotus Cobra variant. Seems fair and reasonable.
  • Introduction to Annihilation looks quite solid, as a cheaper blanket kill spell than Scour from Existence. It's also an extremely flexible option to pull from the sideboard in other formats.
  • Snarls are disappointing. I already cut all the SoI reveal lands from my decks.
edit: from the commander decks...

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Post by Lifeless » 7 months ago

Nothing too impressive so far for me (I'll have to read all the DFCs again to make sure I'm not missing anything), but the mystical archives cards sure are wild looking. The Japanese variants in particular are gorgeous.

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Post by ZenN » 7 months ago

Lifeless wrote:
7 months ago
The Japanese variants in particular are gorgeous.
I'm relatively certain that I need the Japanese Time Warp in my life.
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 7 months ago

The set looks kinda disappointing
Magecraft is just a boring combofest. Did you liked Sharuum combo decks? Now every creature in your deck is Sharuum!
Lessons and Learn won't work in the format unless they change the rules.
The MDFC cards seem pretty bland and uninspired
The house gimmicks seems bland too, but we have yet to see everything. Silverquill kingmaking could be interesting, but both the dragon and the professor commander are meh.

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Lifeless
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Post by Lifeless » 7 months ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
7 months ago
Lessons and Learn won't work in the format unless they change the rules.
I'm assuming that's what this is leading to and I'm not sure how to feel about it.

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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 7 months ago

Lifeless wrote:
7 months ago
ilovesaprolings wrote:
7 months ago
Lessons and Learn won't work in the format unless they change the rules.
I'm assuming that's what this is leading to and I'm not sure how to feel about it.
Learn also gives you the option to rummage, if you don't find a Lesson. So I imagine the rules will be unchanged; the 'wish' part of it doesn't function but everything else does.

Edit: Apparently it's been confirmed on the RC Discord that there won't be a rules change for Learn, so all's well. (Reddit Source)
Last edited by Myllior 7 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 7 months ago

I'm liking the flavour. It's nice to have some magic in Magic, you know? I also don't mind the college flavouring, I never experienced the whole "choose your major" western college experience. The "introduction to..." lessons being colourless is a cute nod to that, as they're general and transcend any sort of identity.

I entertained the thought of building Willowdusk, Essence Seer, as I've had a bit of a LifeAsResource.dec itch since Bolas Rock got itself printed. I did a bit of reconnaissance as to how the deck is likely to play out, and a likely outcome is a one-shot-sized flying lifelinker coming in hot at someone on turn 4/5. As such, the build is likely to lead to non-games - either I slap people out of existence a bit too quickly for my group, or someone has removal and I get blown out. This sort of all-or-nothing gameplay was the death sentence for Ice Cream Monk, so I shortcut to the final outcome :P It also doesn't help that there's apparently a decidedly finite number of actual interesting life sinks.

Everybody's already sang Storm-Kiln Artist's praises, so I'll just chip in with a photoshop my banner making friend made for me :P

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Post by toctheyounger » 7 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
7 months ago
I entertained the thought of building Willowdusk, Essence Seer, as I've had a bit of a LifeAsResource.dec itch since Bolas Rock got itself printed
FWIW I went for Liesa, Shroud of Dusk with this. It's gonna end up pretty spikey, but there's some neat stuff out there you can play with like Vizkopa Guildmage, Vilis, Broker of Blood and the lich effects as well as Phyrexian Unlife. Ultimately though there's a reason life as a resource is such a strong effect to have in play, that sort of deck just has the potential to be super high powered.

On topic I'm really enjoying the flavour myself. Standout pick for me thus far is Archmage Emeritus. That's a damn strong effect and Dralnu, Lich Lord wants it.

Also, I'm finding the keyword learn hilarious. I just picture a stern professor bellowing LEARN! at a class and that's just great.
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Post by Lifeless » 7 months ago

Glad to hear we're not looking at a Learn rules change. I don't think anything will convince me to replace my 4th Ed Japanese Dark Rituals but man the mystical archives art is sick.

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Post by Hawk » 7 months ago

Going down today's previews of anything that I think is better than draft chaff:

Introduction to Annihilation: I don't play Scour from Existence anywhere, and will have to think long and hard about whether saving 2 is worth going down to sorcery speed AND giving them a card (and you can't target lands but...meh). I suspect the answer is "no", but this is a solid little budget option for players (especially non-white players) who really really need to kill whatever permanent type it is that there deck normally can't touch.

Introduction to Prophecy: The rate here is terrible, so terrible I'm not sure I'd run it in all but the dumbest and durdliest of budget white decks, but it's at least on my radar in decks like Mizzix of the Izmagnus that can get the cost down to 0.

Professor of Symbology: Learn doesn't work (or at least, the juicy part doesn't) in our format, but I've also joked about how close I've been to running stuff like Fissure Wizard/Immersturm Raider in mono-red or Boros decks just to get some card flow. This could be fringe playable in mono-white decks, especially Cleric tribal ones.

Archmage Emeritus: Lunar Mystic gets strictly-bettered. This card is sorta bananas honestly, and I look forward to jamming it in (and seeing it in) pretty much any 75% Spellslinger deck from here on out. Triggering on copies as well makes it pretty hot for Sevinne :)

First Day of Class: Seems quite strong in a deck that both slings spells and/or creates tons of tokens (like Kykar, Wind's Fury or Zada, Hedron Grinder or Wort, the Raidmother). The free rummage takes what would already have been a fringe playable and makes it a great little add.

Storm-Kiln Artist: Already noted as an absolutely terrifying addition to Zada and other spellslinger decks.

Dragonsguard Elite: Mentioning only to say that this is a pretty snoozy BaB Promo for Commander. This is a great example of a pretty strong card that is "just stats" and thus not generally playable in EDH. I can't imagine this being played anywhere, although I do look forward to brewing up a MiracleGro-style aggro deck in standard.

Kianne, Dean of Substance: This is a fascinating design, doubling down on the versatility of the Kaldheim commanders. They're sorta a middle-ground behind the Kaldheim commanders and outright Partner Commanders in terms of offering two different commander options for different phases of the game. I like it in theory, but don't like the substance of these two in practice. Kianne is a pretty meh Dryad Greenseeker with a too-slow token generating effect, while Ibraham is a too-slow draw engine. Unless the set has other cards that exile with Study, I can't imagine ever playing these two over Haldan, Avid Arcanist and Pako, Arcane Retriever (if I just wanted UGx "top of library shenanigans and card advantage") or the spicier new Adrix and Nev, Twincasters for tokens.dec. Because of their reliance on the study counters they create, they also seem really meh in the 99. Pass.

Plargg, Dean of Chaos: As a commander these two seem a bit one-trick pony, and it's strange that they don't synergize at all. It's interesting to theorycraft a deck that uses Plargg to cheat out Restore Balance or other "CMC-less" cards, but that doesn't feel like a winning line; meanwhile Augusta is back there being a weird, over-complex Always Watching type anthem with a bunch of extra triggers and nonsense. I'm more interested in them in the 99, where Plargg is a Rummaging Goblin at a much better rate with a free sort of "super draw a card" effect stapled to him. That's so good in most Boros or RWx decks that I imagine finding a home for Plargg in many places, with the ability to use Augusta as a pump as gravy.

Rowan, Scholar of Sparks: Rowan and Will are almost as good as their original incarnation in a spellslinger deck, maybe better, offering a Goblin Electromancer-style discount. Both sides protect themselves. Rowan's ultimate is more exciting, and I suspect I'll be playing the Rowan side more often, but options don't hurt anyone.

Shaile, Dean of Radiance: As commanders there is some natural synergy here, but I suspect that having to tap on both sides is going to make this duo a bit too ponderous for the average EDH table. Again, they're a bit spicier in the 99 of a counters matter deck where Embrose is a rock-solid card draw engine. Embrose may be strong enough to make that deck work in EDH alone the more I think about it, but for sure I see these guys in a lot of Abzan counter decks.

Torrent Sculptor: Strong elsewhere, but doesn't seem good in EDH.

Uvilda, Dean of Perfection: A "fixed" Jhoira of the Ghitu - you can only suspend (sorry, "hone") instants and sorceries, and you get a nice 4-finger discount but it ain't free, preventing you from just slamming a way-too-early Expropriate, Time Stretch, or Obliterate with almost no resources (and meaning you generally don't want to suspend stuff like Obliterate or Decree of Annihilation, since you won't be able to play your other suspended cards after). In general she's "worse" than Jhoira, but in some metas maybe that's a good thing...and that's before we even talk about her other half in Nassari. Stolen Strategy is a fun card, and having it in the command zone seems very fun. Again, it surprises me that while there's a little synergy between the two here they mostly play differently, but in general they seem fun to brew around.

Valentin, Dean of the Vein: Is it weird that I'm at first most interested in the voltron potential of a 1 CMC commander with built-in evasion? I mean, he's no Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh but it is interesting. He also has a Planar Void-style graveyard eating that makes little dork tokens, and his other half does reward the same kind of deck with lots of pests and incremental lifegain to overrun the swarm of pests. It's gonna take a lot for me to make a 3rd Golgari deck, but I am intrigued.

Quandrix Apprentice: The only apprentice who doesn't seem like "just" a limited signpost; this is going to be the aforementioned bonkers Archmage Emeritus a significant amount of the time for half of the CMC. Top of head I don't know of any UGx spellslinger decks (I guess some versions of Riku of Two Reflections?) but for them, this card is legit.

Shadrix Silverquill: Some of the cards today are obviously meant for other formats; this is one that's clearly so much better in EDH where you can pick a neutral 3rd party as the other target while Shadrix shreds your current prime opponent. Not sure he's good, mind, but he scales fast, makes blockers, draws cards - he's a real swiss army knife with an awesome typeline and I expect to see him often when game stores are really open again.

The Snarls (Frostboil Snarl et al): We live in the saddest timeline, where we're getting reveal lands instead of the tangos we all wanted. Womp womp. These are gonna be pretty cheap especially post-rotation in a few years, but that's because they're also going to be really really mediocre outside of 2-color budget decks.

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Post by Serenade » 7 months ago

What does "whenever you attack" mean?
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

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Post by WizardMN » 7 months ago

Serenade wrote:
7 months ago
What does "whenever you attack" mean?
Presumably just attacking with at least one creature. It saves on some text and only triggers once no matter how many creatures you attack with or how many players you attack.

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Post by Wallycaine » 7 months ago

RE: Lack of synergy for the legends, it's worth remembering that they're at least partially designed for formats where you can run more than one. Plargg, Dean of Chaos doesn't point in the same direction as Augusta with his abilities, but if you have Augusta out, you can get more out of your Plargg by untapping him every time you attack, either for the double loot, or attack + activation... there's a lot of options. Similarly, Uvilda, Dean of Perfection provides exiled cards that you can cheaply cast for more counters on Nassari. Obviously, those synergies don't come to the forefront in Commander, though.

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Post by Mookie » 7 months ago

Missed this initially, but apparently Abundant Harvest is from Modern Horizons 2. Not the splashiest card, but seems quite reasonable - gets a land in the early game, or a spell if you already have enough mana. I've seen Abundance played in the past, so it's certainly a solid effect. Unclear if it's a better green cantrip than Oath of Nissa though. There might be some way to break it by only running a small number of lands / nonlands, but that seems somewhat unlikely.

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Post by Hermes_ » 7 months ago

so,Gavin says they listened to folks about RW

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Post by Dragoon » 7 months ago

Hermes_ wrote:
7 months ago
so,Gavin says they listened to folks about RW
I think Osgir, the Reconstructor is definitely a step in the right direction. He's an artefact-centric commander for Boros that is not tied to vehicules (Depala, Pilot Exemplar) nor equipment (Akiri, Fearless Voyager) and is not focused on pumping creatures for combat (Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer).
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