Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 6 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
6 months ago
pokken wrote:
6 months ago
I bet it's basically as close to Standstill as you can get in white.
Interestingly, he recently called out Standstill as something that wasn't in white's color pie. But the direction of "rule setting enchantment that, when the opponent/someone breaks it gets sacrificed for a draw" definitely seems plausible. But probably not as strict of a rule as Standstill.
Yeah, that feels like the most likely direction

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 6 months ago

"a red sorcery that you can have as many copies in your deck as you want" but really will it be worth it in commander? ( survey says "no")

• Legendary Creature – Vampire Warlock

• Legendary Creature – Orc Shaman

• Legendary Creature – Dryad Druid

• Legendary Artifact Creature – Construct

Wonder which one will be five color.....
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brainface
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Post by brainface » 6 months ago

Hermes_ wrote:
6 months ago
Wonder which one will be five color.....
Hopefully the red sorcery. Cast conflux for more confluxes!

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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 6 months ago

brainface wrote:
6 months ago
Hermes_ wrote:
6 months ago
Wonder which one will be five color.....
Hopefully the red sorcery. Cast conflux for more confluxes!
the sure bet is one of the legendries
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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 6 months ago

Most folks are speculating it'll be the SoI Reveal Lands (Foreboding Ruins et al) getting finished here, since they play well with the SnowDuals and Triomes. I hope not, since those lands are butt. I'd much prefer enemy-colored Tangos for commander (Canopy Vista); alnds that EtB untapped in the endgame and are fetchable. I feel that makes more sense for Standard too; the Pathways are "fast duals" (they always EtB untapped), so it'd make sense to have more "slow duals" in standard like the triomes. In particular Tangos have a fun and interesting tension with other duals in the format which can be helpful in ensuring decks don't devolve to 5C goodstuff.

I think I actually want Bicycles more (because they're so amazing in both Gitrog Monster and Sevinne) but I expect them less especially since MaRo clarifed the new evergreen mechanic is an actual new mechanic and not the evergreening of Sagas or Cycling or whatever.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 6 months ago

Kasmina, Enigma Sage is.... interesting, as a reverse Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God. Grants her abilities to your other walkers. The abilities themselves don't seem particularly powerful, but I assume there's some way to abuse the -8 alongside a walker that gets absurd amounts of loyalty (such as Gideon, Champion of Justice.... not that you would ever run it).

Professor Onyx is also fine. Pretty normal (+1) card advantage / (-3) removal / (-8) ultimate. Costs six mana, but the abilities are also a little juicier than Ob Nixilis Reignited. The ultimate isn't that exciting though - I guess burning each opponent for 18 isn't bad, but it's not always going to end the game in EDH. Magecraft trigger is very interesting though, and confirms my prediction that the set will have an instant / sorcery theme. I can't think of many other storm payoffs in black, and being a passive Tendrils of Agony seems sweet.

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folding_music
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Post by folding_music » 6 months ago

main use I can see for Kasmina is giving yr uncommon WAR walkers a way to recharge loyalty... Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner for example is a great card who can only tick down. I'm wary of rare three cost planeswalkers and find them really hard to rate, though, there's so much to them that a snap judgment can be ludicrous!

BounceBurnBuff
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Post by BounceBurnBuff » 6 months ago

Professor Onyx gets to enjoy the Chain of Smog combo win with less colour requirements than WAR Ral before her.

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Guardman
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Post by Guardman » 6 months ago

The two big things with Kasmina, Enigma Sage is that she can recharge no + ability planeswalkers and gives planeswalkers that want to ultimate a +2 ability (since most only have +1).

As for Professor Onyx, I like the design. But this feels so much more like a Davriel card than a Liliana.

Edit: I also love the fact that its Danny Trejo spoiling Magic cards.
Last edited by Guardman 6 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Venedrex
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Post by Venedrex » 6 months ago

I wonder if the new Kasmina was a lot different power level wise before Oko's reign of terror made Wotc reconsider the balancing of three mana simic walkers.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 6 months ago

Professor Onyx seems... okay for my Erebos deck. Six mana value is a very high amount and for that cost I wish she did more, but stapling Tendrils of Agony to a planeswalker is admittedly pretty cool.

Magecraft would've been a lot cooler if it was noncreature instead of instants and sorceries only, but I'm pretty excited for the mechanic in general. Spellslingers rejoice!

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 6 months ago

I'm not thrilled about Professor Onyx at all. I have a hard time imagining fair uses and an easy time imagining immediately losing if she survives single turn cycle.

I'll be massively surprised if there isn't a spellcraft mythic card that's insanely broken in some legacy storm deck.

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Lifeless
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Post by Lifeless » 6 months ago

Bitter Ordeal OTK here were come. I don't even think it's particularly broken in the format but I also don't feel like this needed to exist.

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Dunharrow
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Post by Dunharrow » 6 months ago

Guys, we do not know what Magecraft means. What if it only triggers if you have 5 spells in your graveyard or something.?
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Post by WizardMN » 6 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
6 months ago
Guys, we do not know what Magecraft means. What if it only triggers if you have 5 spells in your graveyard or something.?
We do know what Magecraft means: it is written right there on Liliana's card. Unless Wizards is really doing something different, Magecraft is like Heroic, Undergrowth, Imprint, Hellbent, Revolt, etc. It is an ability word which has no rules meaning. It is simply meant to tie abilities together as a cohesive mechanic. It will work the same as if the word wasn't there.

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 6 months ago

I really CAN'T wait to see a Kess deck where everything is a combo piece: either a magecraft card, a Twincast-like card or another copy spells card. Sounds fantastic! Really, it was so hard breaking this format, thank you wizard for making it easier!

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Post by kirkusjones » 6 months ago

Why bother with Bitter Ordeal when Chain of Smog exists?

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 6 months ago

I like Kasmina as other's have said for helping WAR Walkers with no + ability. Niche use since many of those are uncommon and may not be worth the slot for Kasmina to get a small boost in loyalty. But The token generation isn't useless and adds a +1/+1 counter to the battlefield if you care.

Professor Onyx is a less common black spellslinger planeswalker. Perfect for the mid-tier Yidris deck I am brewing right now. I need some win conditions that aren't infinite and this one is a bit high on the curve and does other things. Exactly what I needed.

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 6 months ago

My favorite part about Professor Onyx is that Chain of Smog is now a $12 - $15 dollar card and sold out nearly everywhere, lol.

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 6 months ago

Glad I have no interest in 2 card infinite combos. Apparently many people do. I just want a non-storm win condition for cascade deck that works over multiple turns.

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Post by folding_music » 6 months ago

I don't see what format people are hoping to do the onyx combo in, anyway! CEDH people aren't gonna want to play those individually questionable cards, chain of smog isn't in modern, etc. I guess it'll just make casual worse lol

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Post by ilovesaprolings » 6 months ago

folding_music wrote:
6 months ago
I don't see what format people are hoping to do the onyx combo in, anyway! CEDH people aren't gonna want to play those individually questionable cards, chain of smog isn't in modern, etc. I guess it'll just make casual worse lol
I mean... what kind of combo is so consistent? Every magecraft card will be a combo piece that can't stand on the board for 1 turn. Twincast has like 4-5 variants. Almost every other "copy spell" card can be used as third combo piece.
All of this without considering chain of smoke and storm.
Unless magecraft is seriously toned down, a magecraft deck will be more unfun than a Sharuum deck
folding_music wrote:
6 months ago
I guess it'll just make casual worse lol
Really what we needed

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Post by Wallycaine » 6 months ago

ilovesaprolings wrote:
6 months ago
folding_music wrote:
6 months ago
I don't see what format people are hoping to do the onyx combo in, anyway! CEDH people aren't gonna want to play those individually questionable cards, chain of smog isn't in modern, etc. I guess it'll just make casual worse lol
I mean... what kind of combo is so consistent? Every magecraft card will be a combo piece that can't stand on the board for 1 turn. Twincast has like 4-5 variants. Almost every other "copy spell" card can be used as third combo piece.
All of this without considering chain of smoke and storm.
Unless magecraft is seriously toned down, a magecraft deck will be more unfun than a Sharuum deck
folding_music wrote:
6 months ago
I guess it'll just make casual worse lol
Really what we needed
I'll genuinely be surprised if there's piles and piles of Magecraft cards that instantly win you the game. I think people are overestimating how many will have effects like that because the first mythic previewed did. I think a lot more of them are likely to be incremental value that doesn't translate into an instant win with stuff like Chain of Smog. Something with Magecraft - Tap/freeze target creature isn't going to be broken by that, and something stronger like Magecraft - Loot is still going to be restricted to instant speed/graveyard based wincons from there (or exclusively graveyard based, if using smog).

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Post by Guardman » 6 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
6 months ago
ilovesaprolings wrote:
6 months ago
folding_music wrote:
6 months ago
I don't see what format people are hoping to do the onyx combo in, anyway! CEDH people aren't gonna want to play those individually questionable cards, chain of smog isn't in modern, etc. I guess it'll just make casual worse lol
I mean... what kind of combo is so consistent? Every magecraft card will be a combo piece that can't stand on the board for 1 turn. Twincast has like 4-5 variants. Almost every other "copy spell" card can be used as third combo piece.
All of this without considering chain of smoke and storm.
Unless magecraft is seriously toned down, a magecraft deck will be more unfun than a Sharuum deck
folding_music wrote:
6 months ago
I guess it'll just make casual worse lol
Really what we needed
I'll genuinely be surprised if there's piles and piles of Magecraft cards that instantly win you the game. I think people are overestimating how many will have effects like that because the first mythic previewed did. I think a lot more of them are likely to be incremental value that doesn't translate into an instant win with stuff like Chain of Smog. Something with Magecraft - Tap/freeze target creature isn't going to be broken by that, and something stronger like Magecraft - Loot is still going to be restricted to instant speed/graveyard based wincons from there (or exclusively graveyard based, if using smog).
This is sort of my thought as well. It's also why I think Chain of Acid will probably be the best card to combo with Magecraft outside of Professor Onyx as unless you are winning, you probably don't want to discard your hand to Chain of Smog. Just have an indestructible artifact or land and you have an easy way to trigger Magecraft as much as you want. Green even provides recursion to get back Chain of Acid.

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Post by kirkusjones » 6 months ago

Knowing Wizards stance of "we don't test for eternal formats, lol!" There is bound to be a cheap permanent with magecraft - target opponent loses 1 life/deal 1 damage to any target/target player mills 1. Fingers crossed, but their track record doesn't give me a lot of confidence.
Last edited by kirkusjones 6 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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