Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 months ago

ZenN wrote:
2 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
To be fair most of my games are pickups against randoms, so unless they've read my threads (which weirdly has happened before) they really don't know what they're playing against and vice versa.
That is such a weird experience. I once sat down for a game with someone at my LGS and they were able to quote my old Jenara primer on Salvation.
Oh that is weird. Mine was an online match up and they knew my Nissa primer, I've never had it happen in RL though, thats next level.
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Post by ZenN » 2 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
ZenN wrote:
2 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
To be fair most of my games are pickups against randoms, so unless they've read my threads (which weirdly has happened before) they really don't know what they're playing against and vice versa.
That is such a weird experience. I once sat down for a game with someone at my LGS and they were able to quote my old Jenara primer on Salvation.
Oh that is weird. Mine was an online match up and they knew my Nissa primer, I've never had it happen in RL though, thats next level.
Yeah, I barely even knew this person, but I used to be pretty well known around my LGS, and my Jenara and Sedris decks were pretty well known, so I guess some people put two and two together.

On Cockatrice I find it a lot less weird, since undoubtedly a decent number of people playing EDH on Cockatrice would have spent time on these forums, and my username and picture are the same. A few times I and other Salvation or Nexus users have recognized each other on there.

--

More on thread topic, Ethereal Valkyrie is actually kind of interesting. At 6 mana it's meh, but the ability is neat. Combination of drawing you a card and letting you discount a card from your hand, plus the other fringe benefits that come with foretelling something. That is definitely the sort of thing I'd like to see foretell doing.

I'd probably play her at 6 mana 4/4 if her ability were draw 3 foretell 1.
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Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by pokken » 2 months ago

ZenN wrote:
2 months ago
More on thread topic, Ethereal Valkyrie is actually kind of interesting. At 6 mana it's meh, but the ability is neat. Combination of drawing you a card and letting you discount a card from your hand, plus the other fringe benefits that come with foretelling something. That is definitely the sort of thing I'd like to see foretell doing.
Given that her ability triggers also when attacking I think it's pretty reasonable as is. You could run away with a game pretty hard doing that, getting basically a 2 mana discount on a bunch of spells and such. I definitely considered it with Ephara where I could use it to cost reduce creatures in other people's turns, e.g. Stonecloaker or Selfless Squire.

It could probably have cost 5 tho :)

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Post by ZenN » 2 months ago

pokken wrote:
2 months ago
ZenN wrote:
2 months ago
More on thread topic, Ethereal Valkyrie is actually kind of interesting. At 6 mana it's meh, but the ability is neat. Combination of drawing you a card and letting you discount a card from your hand, plus the other fringe benefits that come with foretelling something. That is definitely the sort of thing I'd like to see foretell doing.
Given that her ability triggers also when attacking I think it's pretty reasonable as is. You could run away with a game pretty hard doing that, getting basically a 2 mana discount on a bunch of spells and such. I definitely considered it with Ephara where I could use it to cost reduce creatures in other people's turns, e.g. Stonecloaker or Selfless Squire.

It could probably have cost 5 tho :)
Ah, yeah. I wasn't thinking about the fact that she triggers on attack as well, when I wrote that last bit. I agree that 5 would be fair for her current stats and abilities. Would probably make her a solid competitor to Dragonlord Ojutai, and have more possible homes thanks to ETB.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by NZB2323 » 2 months ago

Is the entire set spoiled then?
EDH
WUBrg Morophon, the infinite Kavu
Rwb Ghen, Prison Weaver
Rwb Kaalia, Angel tribal
Rwb Edgar, low curve
Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal
WG Captain Sisay land destruction
Ur Niv-Mizzet, Parun
Ug Edric pauper
Bg Sarulf peasant
B Marrow-Gnawer, rat colony

Pauper
U Delver
B ETB creatures
G elves

I don’t play modern anymore.

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Post by Sinis » 2 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
ZenN wrote:
2 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
To be fair most of my games are pickups against randoms, so unless they've read my threads (which weirdly has happened before) they really don't know what they're playing against and vice versa.
That is such a weird experience. I once sat down for a game with someone at my LGS and they were able to quote my old Jenara primer on Salvation.
Oh that is weird. Mine was an online match up and they knew my Nissa primer, I've never had it happen in RL though, thats next level.
When I was writing for CommanderCast, I was recognized exactly once IRL in a local game store. It was weird.

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Post by Toshi » 2 months ago

NZB2323 wrote:
2 months ago
Is the entire set spoiled then?
Yup

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 2 months ago

Sinis wrote:
2 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
ZenN wrote:
2 months ago
That is such a weird experience. I once sat down for a game with someone at my LGS and they were able to quote my old Jenara primer on Salvation.
Oh that is weird. Mine was an online match up and they knew my Nissa primer, I've never had it happen in RL though, thats next level.
When I was writing for CommanderCast, I was recognized exactly once IRL in a local game store. It was weird.
So much for the allure of fame huh? I was kind of honored with my tiny brush with notoriety purely because I don't consider myself to be particularly good at Magic, I just enjoy it lots.
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Post by tstorm823 » 2 months ago

At CommandFest DC however long ago that was, I saw a youth with a Zedruu deck right at the end of the day and asked what his deck was like. He said it was kind of a weird deck and then recited lines from my thread, and I may have scared him with the amount of smiling I was doing.
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 months ago

tstorm823 wrote:
2 months ago
however long ago that was
"In the before times" is the phrase you're after.

It's gotta be a nice feeling, seeing your deck in the wild. I haven't seen any RL, but I know there's quite a few toc's Varina, Lich Queen builds around globally.
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Post by Mookie » 2 months ago

....I'll run into someone running a deck based on one of my primers someday. Sooooooomedaaaaaaaay! *shakes fist* (seriously, every time someone responds to one of my primer threads or I see them mentioned, that makes my day)

Re: Ethereal Valkyrie, the more I think about it, the more it grows on me. Specifically for Brago, it's roughly comparable to Mulldrifter - each turn, you can both attack with and flicker it, so it draws two cards per turn. However, the fact that it also effectively gives [sym]4[/sym] free mana means it's also a really solid tempo play. The cards going into exile instead of staying in hand also means you won't end up discarding to hand size, which is relevant when you're drawing 4+ cards per turn (which is a thing Brago can definitely enable). So yeah, definitely interested in testing.

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Post by umtiger » 2 months ago

Mookie wrote:
2 months ago
....I'll run into someone running a deck based on one of my primers someday. Sooooooomedaaaaaaaay! *shakes fist* (seriously, every time someone responds to one of my primer threads or I see them mentioned, that makes my day)

Re: Ethereal Valkyrie, the more I think about it, the more it grows on me. Specifically for Brago, it's roughly comparable to Mulldrifter - each turn, you can both attack with and flicker it, so it draws two cards per turn. However, the fact that it also effectively gives [sym]4[/sym] free mana means it's also a really solid tempo play. The cards going into exile instead of staying in hand also means you won't end up discarding to hand size, which is relevant when you're drawing 4+ cards per turn (which is a thing Brago can definitely enable). So yeah, definitely interested in testing.
I don't think 6cmc is a stretch for Brago. This is definitely playable.

However, I like to have the card draw stuff at low cmc and the higher impact than card draw stuff at the high end of the curve. Drawing cards itself isn't going to win games.

But as you pointed out, having the cards in a foretold zone is quite nice and at a future discount.

Is anyone else okay with the no downside to include snow basics. Having something strictly better than basics would encourage more mono color decks. That's a good incentive to have. I don't think I'll switch over all my decks just to bluff snow cards because of art. But if more players go monocolor, that's ok.

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Post by Dragonlover » 2 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
It's gotta be a nice feeling, seeing your deck in the wild.
There's supposedly a couple of people that built my Golos deck floating around, but I don't think any of my other decks have inspired anyone. If they have, nobodies mentioned it.

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Post by toctheyounger » 2 months ago

Dragonlover wrote:
2 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
It's gotta be a nice feeling, seeing your deck in the wild.
There's supposedly a couple of people that built my Golos deck floating around, but I don't think any of my other decks have inspired anyone. If they have, nobodies mentioned it.

Dragonlover
That's pretty cool though! Your Golos deck is incredibly unique, especially for a commander notorious for just being goodstuff value or lands.dec.
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Post by Dragonlover » 2 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
2 months ago
That's pretty cool though! Your Golos deck is incredibly unique, especially for a commander notorious for just being goodstuff value or lands.dec.
Yeah I think a lot of people have had the 'huh that would be a cool deck but I don't want to do the work' kind of mood about a wincons deck, so having it all laid out removed the excuse to not do it.

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Post by ZenN » 2 months ago

So, at the end of the day, the list of cards from Kaldheim, off the top of my head, that either make me want to build something else or that I'm actively considering for my existing decks, or that I could probably see myself putting into some deck in the future, includes:
That's... pretty significant. I don't remember the last set that had that many cards that really jumped out at me.
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Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by DirkGently » 2 months ago

So am I wrong or does Toralf, God of Fury go infinite with anything that increases damage, plus 2 indestructible creatures (on any side of the board)? i.e. add Phyrexian Furnace, then ping the damage from one indestructible to another and then throw it in someone's face. I guess that's a lot more complicated than Blasphemous Act though, and only kills one person (unless you set it off with some multi-target damage spell)

Definitely a dude you'd want to save some spot removal for.

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Post by tstorm823 » 2 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
2 months ago
So am I wrong or does Toralf, God of Fury go infinite with anything that increases damage, plus 2 indestructible creatures (on any side of the board)? i.e. add Phyrexian Furnace, then ping the damage from one indestructible to another and then throw it in someone's face. I guess that's a lot more complicated than Blasphemous Act though, and only kills one person (unless you set it off with some multi-target damage spell)

Definitely a dude you'd want to save some spot removal for.
a) I think you meant Furnace of Rath.
b) Forget about the infinite and indestructible parts. I was theorizing about what I could do with Toralf in Zedruu, and realized making him infinite is both difficult and irrelevant, because you've warped the game long before infinite. Consider a damage doubler and Toralf with nothing else. Your opponent has 4 1/1 goblins. Lightning bolt 1, it deals 3, but actually 6. 5 is overkill, so Toralf does 5 which is actually 10 to another goblin. Overkill by 9, deal 18. Overkill by 17, deal 34. Overkill by 33, deal 66. Somebody is dead.

If opponents have a handful of small utility creatures, even a minor overkill turns Toralf + Furnace into In Garruk's Wake + Door to Nothingness. No sense even worrying about indestructible targets to go infinite.
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Post by Yatsufusa » 2 months ago

Quick personal review, warning: I've been distanced from the game for quite a while, my analysis skills might have gotten rusty. I'm only doing this review on a whim for fun and for select cards. My (dust-collecting) decks are mostly aged even before they collected dust, so I mostly look at the power-cards of sets nowadays (which means rares and mythics mostly). Another note, as none of decks really align with the tribes or Snow, I just glance and skip through them, even if they have great synergies, I'm reviewing more for myself than actually creating general content.

Divine Gambit - Best card ever created, 10/10, would abolish the Reserved List by itself. Okay, just kidding, I missed the rant boat for this card by a country mile and I'm just here to give my two cents (obviously I'm not getting this for anything), there should have been a CMC-cap on the permanent placed, Skyclave Apparition-style. With the Apparition it was obvious the 4/4 token came first, so they capped the removal range to 4, but apparently when it comes to the inverse (downsides) they just say "Emrakul is fine".

Doomskar - I feel like this section will be the "foretell" review as well, and it helps the first one on the list numerically is an impactful one. In a vacuum I would say "sure, paying 2 first and 3 later" is nice, but at the end of the day it's still a 5-mana vanilla creature wipe. As foretold, my decks are already aged with value utility on resolution, so I daresay generally the convenience of foretelling doesn't outweigh all the value I packed in my decks already, even on a boardwipe. That being said I could see a potential future in my Yorion, since the gimmick of the deck blinking in-and-out for "extra-turns" during end-steps could work the the mechanic, but at the end of the day it isn't exactly revolutionary (and well with times IRL as it is now I wouldn't go out and experiment with a whole bulk of cards which aren't revolutionary tier).

Glorious Protector - Gotta admit I was excited for one second thinking it was another Restoration Angel/Felidar Guardian until I saw it wasn't. The whole Yorion cycle works on the fact the exiles come back on their own (and trigger an exile when they ETB) so to need an external trigger is just too much work on an aged deck.

Starnheim Courser - well if I already run Etherium Sculptor, Jhoira's Familiar and Cloud Key I probably should give this a look. It'll like take over the Familiar but then again affecting Legendaries is nice in the format.

Mystic Reflection - Might have glanced too quickly the first time round, but on reflection it's actually a pretty swell card. I could throw it into Grimgrin just so I could turn 2/2 zombie tokens into threats, or turn threats into 2/2 zombies. It's incredibly flexible and I like it but I feel so detached/aged that I probably won't feel hurt if I couldn't get a copy to toy around with at the moment.

Reflections of Littjara - I want to like it for zombies, but it also feels like a 5-mana do-nothing because it's the kind of card people tend to immediately take for as a threat and as a result it endangers you more than you can utilize it.

Burning-Rune Demon - Rune-Scarred Demon has fallen largely out of favor (to the point I can't straight up replace it with this because it's not there to be replaced), but with the amount of recursion, I'll state the pretty obvious that this is the better Demon a lot of times. Problem for me it still faces the same issues, it's better but it's not that much better to overcome the reasons Rune-Scarred fell out in the first place. It'll find its way back in the same way its predecessor did on occasion I suppose.

Crippling Fear - On surface it looks like an far-inferior wipe even in Zombies, but then again it could be the difference of downsizing enemy boards enough that actually beating through with Zombies is a slightly more viable plan. Like Mystic Reflection I won't mind toying around with it but I won't feel any pain if I can't get one either.

Draugr Necromancer - On the surface this looks pretty powerful and revolutionary and I should Snow my Zombie deck for it, but in the larger picture I don't really like the other zombies or UB snow cards in the set so much so it becomes a case of pretty much doing that for this one card (that's going to be taken for a threat) and it becomes not-worth-it. Funny enough my Karador already runs 3 Snow Basics just for Field of the Dead so it could be a utility card there, but even then it's just a flexible fringe bonus.

Haunting Voyage - Not a lot to say, but big fun for zombies is the same way Mystic Reflection and Crippling Fear is.

Rise of the Dread Marn - Fresh Meat for Zombies (although it doesn't replace already-there zombie tokens). If I throw in all those fun-foretell cards for Zombies this might make it, but otherwise this is rather meh.

Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire - Powerful, yes, but nonbo with Alesha. Funny a card brought in attacking isn't considered to have attacked at all even after dealing combat damage/after the phase because that status all hinges on a declaration, but them's the rules.

Craven Hulk - Nothing about playability here, it's just my favorite single-card-flavor of the set. Fearless Pup gets a quick honorably mention here as well, but Giant Coward reigns over the puppers.

Goldspan Dragon - I run Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge in Ryusei (and man is that deck just naturally swelling in dragons despite me not actively making it tribal because a lot of tribal support like Dragonkin Berserker don't synergize with Ryusei's explosions well) and the synergy is pretty good there.

Vault Robber - I would have been excited for this in Ryusei if the "dies trigger" change didn't happen, but it did, so this robber is left dry.

Esika's Chariot - I do have a creature card-less Freyalise deck that makes me always pay more attention to noncreature green cards. 4 mana for 2 tokens and a vehicle that can create more tokens does seem pretty utility.

In Search of Greatness - I never got hold of a Mirri's Guile, I might just make do with this.

Toski, Bearer of Secrets - I mean it's technically 1-mana in Animar for essentially an indestructible draw engine of sorts. Even if I can't pay 1, it does trigger Animar and it's a walking engine of recovery after wipes as well. That's a lot of utility packed into a forest rat.

Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider - 2 mana Doubling Season in Animar (I had to put DS into Freyalise and I never liked the idea of DS in Animar anyway). Animar just breaks anything that makes it into the creature form, that sounds about right.

Kaya the Inexorable - I really like the ultimate (Debtors' Knell is my "iconic" representation of the format, even if I don't actually play the card) in Karador and the plus is fine (not overwhelming in a deck already focused on reanimation), but that deck doesn't run DS (or Vorinclex) and I suspect Kaya would just be a target of all kinds in the end. But then again, she demands the same attention Knell did and if she succeeds that's unremovable "Knell" as far I'm concerned, so it's mighty tempting.

Niko Aris - Very high synergy with Yorion, pretty much protected every other turn due to deck design, then provides a way constantly ensure I can recast Yorion. Sure it's a hefty 5 mana per "my turn" as opposed to just using Conjurer's Closet, but there aren't a lot of redundancies for if u want to retain some permanents across some phases and Niko provides some flexibility, although at a hefty cost (technically that's Yorion's own fault though). I can always just draw cards if I don't need the redundancy anyway.

Maskwood Nexus - Well I ran Arcane Adaptation for the longest time in Horde just to cover some cards, then during the great Commander Legends "revamp" I had Horde share the deck with Najeela. I can hear all my creature type problems so solved that I'm considering putting Reaper King in the deck for fun now. (FYI that deck is not a Morophon-type of deck, it was a land-animation deck that tried to staple on elementals but kept slipping off it in several directions).

The World Tree - At first I wasn't completely sold for land Chromatic Lantern for even Horde (it does CIPT and doesn't ramp), but looking back at Maskwood Nexus, I might just toss it in.

Alrund, God of the Cosmos // Hakka, Whispering Raven - Pretty swell in Animar, can act as early cast (that self-bounces) and then as a beatstick draw-engine of sorts. Not overly powerful (as all the gods in the set are, honestly), but what he lacks in utility power he has utility range to make up for.

Toralf, God of Fury // Toralf's Hammer - I don't care about the hammer, but "supertrample" in Animar sounds like the trample made into politics I never knew I wanted.

Kolvori, God of Kinship // The Ringhart Crest - Karador is legendary-matters, so a 2-cost rock on-theme on one side and a "weaker" Captain Sisay on the other sounds like a compromise I could settle with.

Hengegate Pathway // Mistgate Pathway - I only run this in my 2C decks and I only have 2 2C decks (Azorius and Dimir).

That about settles it for my personal card review on Kaldheim, made by me for me, but occasionally some do find this useful so I do post this if I have the time and mood to do so.
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Post by Dunharrow » 2 months ago

do any of you see an interesting way to build Koma, Cosmos Serpent ?

The only thing that stands out is that UG can't normally sacrifice creatures very efficiently. Are there any serpents that want to die?
Or UG changelings that want to die?
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Post by Mookie » 2 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 months ago
do any of you see an interesting way to build Koma, Cosmos Serpent ?

The only thing that stands out is that UG can't normally sacrifice creatures very efficiently. Are there any serpents that want to die?
Or UG changelings that want to die?
I suspect if I were to build Koma, I'd lean into the token production over the sacrifice ability - as far as I can tell, there aren't any serpents with relevant death triggers. That said, Arcane Adaptation seems relevant - making all of your creatures into expendable serpents could be interesting. I could imagine a janky Opposition deck making use of token production and Arcane Adaptation, or just a few Parallel Lives effects.

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Post by bobthefunny » 2 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
2 months ago
do any of you see an interesting way to build Koma, Cosmos Serpent ?

The only thing that stands out is that UG can't normally sacrifice creatures very efficiently. Are there any serpents that want to die?
Or UG changelings that want to die?
Define "interesting."

Koma is a big, highly resilient threat, that pumps out tons of power of attackers rather quickly. It also has highly relevant control abilities, shutting down several potent commanders, planeswalkers, or other threatening permanents. Including lands.

Want to use that Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx? Hope you have a use for the mana during your upkeep. Did you want to go infinite with Ashnod's Altar? How about no? Is that an Oblivion Stone? Use it now, or forget about it.

That tap ability can also be used aggressively, to shut out blockers.

--

I don't know that you need to go full token build, but he can easily help support a lot of different shells without resorting to the typical blue green DRAW ENGINE IN THE CZ Commanders.

I plan to replace Rashmi from the head of my Wurms Tribal deck. (If only Koma were a Wurm...)...

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Post by Dunharrow » 2 months ago

bobthefunny wrote:
2 months ago
Dunharrow wrote:
2 months ago
do any of you see an interesting way to build Koma, Cosmos Serpent ?

The only thing that stands out is that UG can't normally sacrifice creatures very efficiently. Are there any serpents that want to die?
Or UG changelings that want to die?
Define "interesting."

Koma is a big, highly resilient threat, that pumps out tons of power of attackers rather quickly. It also has highly relevant control abilities, shutting down several potent commanders, planeswalkers, or other threatening permanents. Including lands.

Want to use that Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx? Hope you have a use for the mana during your upkeep. Did you want to go infinite with Ashnod's Altar? How about no? Is that an Oblivion Stone? Use it now, or forget about it.

That tap ability can also be used aggressively, to shut out blockers.

--

I don't know that you need to go full token build, but he can easily help support a lot of different shells without resorting to the typical blue green DRAW ENGINE IN THE CZ Commanders.

I plan to replace Rashmi from the head of my Wurms Tribal deck. (If only Koma were a Wurm...)...
I get that Koma is good. Maybe has a home in Maelstrom Wanderer. I just don't find it inspiring to build around. Which is fine.
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Post by darrenhabib » 2 months ago

It just dawned on me that we only got the one Praetor with Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider in Kaldheim.
I was expecting the rest of the gang, so that was a little disappointing.
I'm sure there is a plot twist why Vorinclex roams that plane.

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Post by bobthefunny » 2 months ago

My guess is that they are setting up the world tree as being able to traverse the planes, but perhaps more easily only if you know it exists, which is why others don't randomly stumble across it. Vorinclex either followed someone who bridged to new phyrexia, or stumbled across it, or was brought over for a hunt.

I hope Kaldheim does not become another phyrexia, although that battle would somewhat fit into the Ragnarok mythology, with near annihilation of both sides, and a new world reborn after.

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