Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Morganelefay
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Post by Morganelefay » 1 year ago

As someone who loves jamming Blood Artist effects I'm overly giddy about Syr Konrad, the Grim, much to my LGS's annoyance.

That said I probably won't build it as an Aristocrats list, but rather plan to do silly things like...

"Bojuka Bog"
"Targetting?"
"Myself"
"Huh..."
"Y'all take 30"
"Wait what?"
EDH Decks:

Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis - Arise, Lord Hogaak.
Grumgully, the Generous - The wonderful world of Ferngully.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw Cards Tribal.
Pir, Imaginative Rascal & Toothy, Imaginary Friend - Imaginary Superfriends.
Selvala, Explorer Returned - Taxes, Denial and Fatties.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Dinos and Eldrazis, oh my.
Ayara, First of Locthwain - March of the Black Queen.
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh - Chandra Tribal.
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim - Curious Contraptions

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75chan
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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

I like Witch's Vengeance. Not sure if it's actually any good outside of randomly hitting tribal decks, but it's a cheap boardwipe that doesn't kill my own stuff so I can run it without any qualms in a creature list. Nice. There's probably similar effects out there that I can run already printed that I don't know of, and maybe I'm just liking the aesthetics enough from the set too much and nothing else so far fits any of my decks at all.

Witchclaw Talisman is interesting, but it's a bit too many hoops to jump through, maybe in a deck with enough bounce effects. Might be decent in storm.
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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

  • Murderous Rider - yay, more Hero's Downfall for commander. The two life lost is mostly not an issue for commander so I suspect this card will probably see a little bit of play at least. Unfortunately, a 2/3 lifelink creature for 1BB doesn't seem very good so... I don't know that this is really an improvement over Hero's Downfall but I think it seems like at least a playable card.
  • Questing Beast - Planeswalkers are rarely a big problem in multiplayer commander due to multiple opponents butttttttt, that is a lot of stuff on that beasty and I do think it seems quite viable in combat. It probably won't see a ton of play but I do really hate planeswalkers so maybe I will build a list for it. The static abilities really do work together to do nice things and I love haste + vigilance creatures.
  • Embercleave - Yikes, this is like a combat trick that maybe also murders the heck out of the defender. I love the design and am looking forward to the things this does. I have several red decks that it seems like it will have a great impact in and thought of several more that seem great for it.
  • Wishclaw Talisman - its interesting, but that said I hate the idea of handing off value. I would probably compare this with Beseech the Queen even though its far more black intensive I think its a fair comparison in that for a bit more mana intensity you don't hand off value to someone else. If you are playing budget magic then I think this card can work but I don't think that being political really works when you have a good collection so I think at the top end if you have a good collection this effect is very poor. If on the other hand you don't win often and working on a budget I think this card can be a temporary fix. I wouldn't spend money on it but if you pack open it I think its fine.
  • Wicked Wolf I don't think its really that great for commander. It seems geared towards limited and maybe standard. It just doesn't do enough for commander in my opinion.
  • Doom Foretold - I love this card in that I feel like most of the time when you consider casting it you can see how the first turn is going to play out. Wizards has been a bit more hesitant in making reasonable stax effects of late so I like to see this design. The fact that it will kill itself on its own but still give some value back as well as giving a known outcome in some cases seems really cool. I actually really look forward to seeing what this card does in commander but I also suspect that not many will play with it.
  • Witch's Vengeance - so, it will varry based on how much tokens / tribal you see opposing. Its a very reasonable cost but being a sorcery and a little situational will mean that it might be great and it might suck depending on what you are facing. I don't hate it.
  • Giant Killer - Its kind of cool that it can be hit with the Ranger effects being a one drop creature for white. The creature side of it probably isn't great but the spell removal side of it is maybe decent. I wish it was maybe a touch stronger on the creature side but I think its cool still. I love getting more reasonable one drops in white. I want to see if I can test it at some point but I do think it might be riding the line for commander.
Last edited by ISBPathfinder 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Hey, having an emergency 2/3 lifelinking chump you can chase out of the exile in times of need is not that crappy. I'll take it. I won't run it anywhere, but I'm happy it exists. Some of these value town combinations in the adventure splits are very satisfying to look at. Giant Killer is another one - for whatever reason, I have some copies of both halves of this kicking around my bulk box. Probably still not good enough to make it in, but it just makes me so happy somehow.

Wishclaw Talisman continues black's newfound huggy take on tutoring (Scheming Symmetry). Maybe this sort of stuff may fly in a political deck? Not that I'd know.
 
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UnfulfilledDesires
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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 1 year ago

My Saskia the Unyielding legendary-matters deck is excited about Embercleave.

The Xantcha, Sleeper Agent deck I'm working on might want Murderous Rider.

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

New week, new cards!

Mystical Dispute - might be passable if you want a trump card in a counter war. Dispel is more consistent, but this also has a lot more flexibility. Depends on your meta, but I expect most tables to have enough blue for it to be good.

Once Upon a Time - not particularly powerful or consistent, but free spells are always worth looking at.

Murderous Rider - seems like a significant upgrade to Never // Return and Hero's Downfall. Death trigger is also somewhat interesting - not sure if there is some way to abuse it, or if it is to shut down recursion (getting it back with Gravedigger effects may have been too powerful).

Doom Foretold - I'm tempted to test in Teysa, although not being able to eat my expendable tokens is a downside. Still, I've been wanting to add an Abyss variant to the deck. Could just throw in more expendable creatures.

Questing Beast - I'm not really sure what to make of this. Three heads, three keywords, three abilities? Seems even more kitchen-sinky than Samut, Voice of Dissent. Pile of keywords + evasion makes me think of it as a voltron commander.

Wishclaw Talisman - looks hilarious, and super flavorful. Might test in Sharuum, since I have Voltaic Key, Trading Post, and other ways to get more value from it.

Embercleave - Temur Battle Rage, as an equipment? Seems like a good way for surprise lethal.

Giant Killer - interesting to contrast with Intrepid Hero, which I run in Samut. More frontloaded value (immediate removal spell), less long-term value (since you only tap things, instead of killing them). On the other hand, it's hard to get multiple targets with the Hero, since people just stop playing big things.

Also: I'm really enjoying the new creature types. Warlock, Mouse, Peasant, Noble... any others?

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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 year ago

Evaluating Once Upon a Time as just a free spell isn't giving it enough credit. You might get that off occasionally, but the card is probably worth a slot in the average green deck. The big thing is that it's the first time we've gotten one of these effects as an instant. Green plays to the board more than most colors, but it still has plenty of good removal/combat tricks/etc that are good to hold up mana for. Digging when you don't need to spend the mana elsewhere is solid. The second thing is that it digs five deep for two very common card types. There are only five cards in green that dig that deep at or below 2 CMC: Outside of the instant speed, Once Upon a Time is worse than a couple of these in the right decks and it makes up for it by being consistently good in a much wider variety of decks. Cheap card selection finding lands and creatures is solid in the early game when you're still setting up your mana and equally solid in the lategame when you're digging for threats and can afford to drop a couple mana. Most EDH decks can benefit from cheap filtering, regardless of competitive level, and this is one of the best green options to date.
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Post by Taleran » 1 year ago

The Talisman is gross plugged into any pre-existing Krark-Clan combo or Dramatic-Scepter combo or just with either Voltaic Key

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Wishclaw Talisman - its interesting, but that said I hate the idea of handing off value. I would probably compare this with Beseech the Queen even though its far more black intensive I think its a fair comparison in that for a bit more mana intensity you don't hand off value to someone else. If you are playing budget magic then I think this card can work but I don't think that being political really works when you have a good collection so I think at the top end if you have a good collection this effect is very poor. If on the other hand you don't win often and working on a budget I think this card can be a temporary fix. I wouldn't spend money on it but if you pack open it I think its fine.
I really strongly have to disagree with the bolded. I have a collection orders of magnitude more expensive than nearly anyone else in my local groups (or any of my previous local groups), win a high percentage of game wins (whether using my own or borrowed decks), and I have no problem making political maneuvers. Sure, everyone might start out with a predilection towards swinging at me first when everything is even, but when someone else has a win-threatening board state and I'm solidly in third place, no one gives a crap how much my collection is worth or how many games I've won - they're ready to make deals to keep the other guy from running away with the game, even if it helps me in the long run. And that's not because they're idiots - if they went after me at that point, the first place guy would just win unopposed. Sure, because they go after him now, it ultimately may mean that I win, but they're trying to give themselves the best chance of winning, not giving me the worst.

If you have a straightforward, power-on-the-table strategy, or a linear combo strategy that's easily identified, or you just happen to be ahead at the time, then sure, it's risky - it's much worse than just giving away a tutor, it's probably giving away multiple tutors (although if it tutors for your last combo piece then maybe it doesn't really matter). But as long as you can navigate a plan more politically savvy than play-the-most-powerful-thing-you-can-as-soon-as-you-can then this card could be insanely strong, potentially as strong as multiple tutors AND giving a third party an optimal tool to take down a common enemy.

It really annoys me that people conflate having the best collection with having the most powerful decks. If you've been around long enough, and committed hard enough to the format, to amass a great collection, you should be the one most mindful of limiting your decks to play at the power level of your group. With great power comes great responsibility, etc, etc.

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Post by gilrad » 1 year ago

I think the area where "political tutor effects" (and I guess this is going to be a thing now?) really shine is in problem solving, something that tutors already excel at.

Think of it this way: Player A just equipped his Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre with swiftfoot boots fairly early and is threatening to run away with the game. One player is already annihilator-ed to 4 lands and can no longer meaningfully flex to a solution. You may be low on mana too, and unable to chain cards together to deal with it by yourself. Assuming turn order doesn't screw you over, a political tutor effect is all you need to come up with a one-two solution. disenchant effect into player B's path to exile. Maybe player C has a icy manipulator effect?

The talisman has its own problems in that you don't control where the third tutor is going, which means after the problem is solved someone might receive an open-ended tutor. Still, considering how good political tutors are at problem solving (and how recurrable the talisman is), I'd say it's a fair tradeoff.

If you're U/B Blizzard Strix is a decent target as an open-ended tutor.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Wishclaw Talisman - its interesting, but that said I hate the idea of handing off value. I would probably compare this with Beseech the Queen even though its far more black intensive I think its a fair comparison in that for a bit more mana intensity you don't hand off value to someone else. If you are playing budget magic then I think this card can work but I don't think that being political really works when you have a good collection so I think at the top end if you have a good collection this effect is very poor. If on the other hand you don't win often and working on a budget I think this card can be a temporary fix. I wouldn't spend money on it but if you pack open it I think its fine.
I really strongly have to disagree with the bolded. I have a collection orders of magnitude more expensive than nearly anyone else in my local groups (or any of my previous local groups), win a high percentage of game wins (whether using my own or borrowed decks), and I have no problem making political maneuvers. Sure, everyone might start out with a predilection towards swinging at me first when everything is even, but when someone else has a win-threatening board state and I'm solidly in third place, no one gives a crap how much my collection is worth or how many games I've won - they're ready to make deals to keep the other guy from running away with the game, even if it helps me in the long run. And that's not because they're idiots - if they went after me at that point, the first place guy would just win unopposed. Sure, because they go after him now, it ultimately may mean that I win, but they're trying to give themselves the best chance of winning, not giving me the worst.

If you have a straightforward, power-on-the-table strategy, or a linear combo strategy that's easily identified, or you just happen to be ahead at the time, then sure, it's risky - it's much worse than just giving away a tutor, it's probably giving away multiple tutors (although if it tutors for your last combo piece then maybe it doesn't really matter). But as long as you can navigate a plan more politically savvy than play-the-most-powerful-thing-you-can-as-soon-as-you-can then this card could be insanely strong, potentially as strong as multiple tutors AND giving a third party an optimal tool to take down a common enemy.

It really annoys me that people conflate having the best collection with having the most powerful decks. If you've been around long enough, and committed hard enough to the format, to amass a great collection, you should be the one most mindful of limiting your decks to play at the power level of your group. With great power comes great responsibility, etc, etc.
I am glad it works for you. It literally doesn't matter what I make though. I have built decks with literally ZERO WAYS TO WIN and I draw aggro like a beast because everyone aims everything at me. If everyone has similar collections perhaps this doesn't happen as much. I draw aggro based on who I am completely ignoring what I am playing most of the time or my current board state. This isn't always true, but it almost always is.

I am not going to say that I can't control people's threat perception of me, but its a hard thing to directly control. I don't play any combo, MLD, stax / stasis and yet I still almost always draw attention, even when playing bad mono colored decks.
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
I am glad it works for you. It literally doesn't matter what I make though. I have built decks with literally ZERO WAYS TO WIN and I draw aggro like a beast because everyone aims everything at me. If everyone has similar collections perhaps this doesn't happen as much. I draw aggro based on who I am completely ignoring what I am playing most of the time or my current board state. This isn't always true, but it almost always is.

I am not going to say that I can't control people's threat perception of me, but its a hard thing to directly control. I don't play any combo, MLD, stax / stasis and yet I still almost always draw attention, even when playing bad mono colored decks.
This sounds like a playgroup issue rather than a gameplay one. A very anti social move where everyone always focus fires on the same guy every game. When that's happened to me, randoms or otherwise, it's typically meant my presence isn't wanted and they're trying to get rid of me without actually saying it.
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

Emry, Lurker of the Loch looks very nice. Cost reduction ability means she can dodge commander tax, mill ability fuels graveyard shenanigans, and recursion ability provides incremental card advantage. Blue doesn't actually have that much recursion for artifacts - other than Academy Ruins, most of the effects I can think of are multicolor. Personally, I'm interested in running her as Salvaging Station #2 in Sharuum.

....also leads me to muse on the fact that while people always complain about 'yet another boros combat commander', I never see nearly as many complaints about 'yet another blue artifact commander'. I guess because even though they care about artifacts, each card tends to care about different attributes of them - compare Thada Adel, Acquisitor, Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Sai, Master Thopterist, Arcum Dagsson, Muzzio, Visionary Architect, and Urza, Lord High Artificer. I guess it's just that there is a lot more depth to 'artifact-friendly' than there is to 'combat-friendly'.

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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

I'd much rather play Wishclaw Talisman in a table with randoms than in a set playgroup. Some people certainly target me due to me being a better player, but mostly I'd presume people know that I probably have the perfect answer or perfect wincon for their strategy somewhere in the deck, and am likely to get it if I get it if I get an additional free tutor. It's a really cool ability that I don't trust my playgroups to trust me with (it also doesn't fit any of my decks so there's that, except storm in which case I could grap a Chain of Vapor and then get a reuse tutor I guess, but that doesn't sound good enough).
Mookie wrote:
1 year ago
....also leads me to muse on the fact that while people always complain about 'yet another boros combat commander', I never see nearly as many complaints about 'yet another blue artifact commander'. I guess because even though they care about artifacts, each card tends to care about different attributes of them - compare Thada Adel, Acquisitor, Padeem, Consul of Innovation, Sai, Master Thopterist, Arcum Dagsson, Muzzio, Visionary Architect, and Urza, Lord High Artificer. I guess it's just that there is a lot more depth to 'artifact-friendly' than there is to 'combat-friendly'.
Because we boros players want more options, blue already have tons of non-artifact options! (We have a few for sure, it's gotten a lot more varied recently, but where's my perfect pillowfort commander? :angel:)
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Pramikon can deflect all attacks from you if you keep blinking it. Done.

I am a little bummed that the Nessie card is not a legend, but I will survive. So many abilities. Will be fun at many stages of the game.
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Post by 75chan » 1 year ago

A mono-boros commander I meant sorry, Pramikon sadly has a blue mana symbol in the cost.

I wish Greedy Impulse was mono-blue so I could add it to Wanderer, I think it's too expensive as a generic goodstuff card.

Lochmere Serpent is so close, yet so far. "Active this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery" has to be one of my least favorite lines in magic. It'd be an interesting piece of GY hate otherwise.

Robber of the Rich actually goes into Wanderer though. Niice.
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

There are currently 265 rogues in MtG, and Rogue has synergy with Lorwyn creature type, mostly Faeries, Robber of the Rich is a fitting design. I suppose making RotR an archer with reach is intended to give him a Robin Hood vibe. We might get Little John as a troll?

Marchesa is the first commander comes to mind with RotR.

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Post by Sanity_Eclipse » 1 year ago

Worthy Knight seems like an auto-include for knight tribal. Peasant spam upon cast!

Claim the Firstborn - Does Threads of Disloyalty see play? Seems like a similar boat to be in.

Syr Carah, the Bold - Jeska's ping ability tacked onto Red's newfound exile top of library, you may play it effect. I like her.

Lochmere Serpent - Seems decent for mid-game Dimir.

Clackbridge Troll - Black doesn't usually get trample or haste, so CB here is interesting for that reason. Might end up being like, I think Desecration Demon? Whatever one from RTR that was undercosted that let opponents tap him. The card advantage might be enough of a trade off.

Robber of the Rich - Seems good.

Wildborn Preserver - I like it, personally. Feels like a pushed Standard/Modern etc power card, but seems decent. Probably doesn't work here though.

Emry, Lurker of the Loch - Mookie's comments about sum it up. Also, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of dodging commander tax! (What are you going on about, Sanity...)

Feasting Troll King - good body, good if devotion heavy cost. Nice take on the troll resilience ability.
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Post by RedCheese » 1 year ago

Kenrith, the Returned King

Talk about a perfect group hug commander.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Talk about yet another worryingly ubiquitous commander. The fact this does a class A dumb straight out of the command zone is going to lead to a nontrivial fraction of decks around him being various stall shenanigans until infinite mana is assembled. Still, this is going to be a Golos for any sort of political deck going forward - you start by asking yourself if you have a good reason to not just jam this guy in the command zone.
 
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 1 year ago

Another set, another 5C legendary. This is the 7th one since the beginning of 2018 and there are only 24 options total. Is there really demand for that many of those?
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Post by folding_music » 1 year ago

I think I've liked every card so far apart from the ones with Human on the typeline. i guess i'll never warm to that particular obscure tribe

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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

At least it's not Najeela dumb.
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Post by Orion » 1 year ago

so we got two legendary creatures at uncommon,two at rare(?) and one mythic and all are mono so far mmhmm. two are knights one is a fairy and the others are merfolk and noble. rounding out all i wonder if each gets a Noble a Knight and a Nonhuman.

edit: oops kenrith is multi
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

Man, I'm so tempted to build a Monty Python and the holy grail theme deck now. Or a Robin Hood: Men in Tights deck. Either is totally doable this set.
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