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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 3 months ago

...what is the CMC of Valki, God of Lies? Wondering if I can make it my general and switch Obosh to my companion.
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Post by toctheyounger » 3 months ago

Serenade wrote:
3 months ago
...what is the CMC of Valki, God of Lies? Wondering if I can make it my general and switch Obosh to my companion.
I'd assume its the creature face of 2, at least from the command zone, as Tibalt can't naturally be your commander.
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Post by Dunharrow » 3 months ago

Reflections of Littjara, name shapeshifter, cast Clever Impersonator, get two more reflections of Littjara.

I don't have a shapeshifter deck but this seems like it would be interesting to build around.
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Post by Krishnath » 3 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
3 months ago
Reflections of Littjara, name shapeshifter, cast Clever Impersonator, get two more reflections of Littjara.

I don't have a shapeshifter deck but this seems like it would be interesting to build around.
Oh, that is evil, I love it.

Every time you cast a shapeshifter (such as a clone) you get four. Now imagine that with something like a Vesuvan Doppelganger.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

Goldspan Dragon seems good in Feather, who already has some treasure synergies in Extortionist and Tithe.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 months ago

On one hand, Goldspan Dragon looks like a Feather slam dunk. One of the best setups my deck can get going is token generation plus Phyrexian Altar, which translates to "each time you cast a repeatable instant, get a mana if you so choose". Goldboi turns that into "each time you cast a repeatable instant, get two mana if you so choose". That is a nontrivial upgrade, and can turn a hand of one-drop spells into a mountain of banked mana in one go around the table. However, Goldboi is a heroic sink, and those historically have trouble in the deck. Picture Zada, a lovely game-ender, with this. Suddenly you've got a problem - to target Goldboi or Zada? Draw one and gain mana, or draw a fistful and spend mana? I'm probably being overly critical, and will need to coax my group into letting me test this a bunch.

Also, I can attest from experience that Goblin Matron is a good Feather card with a toolbox of Zada, Dockside Extortionist and Guttersnipe. Is Goldboi enough to start running Sarkhan's Triumph, given the fact it can also reach Mirrorwing Dragon?

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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
3 months ago
Also, I can attest from experience that Goblin Matron is a good Feather card with a toolbox of Zada, Dockside Extortionist and Guttersnipe. Is Goldboi enough to start running Sarkhan's Triumph, given the fact it can also reach Mirrorwing Dragon?
I doubt it, as Matron's ETB is also relevant for flicker, and its body is relevant for Zada. If we got a Sarkan's Triumph on a stick, maybe. Also, I think Goldspan (which can I just say is a weird cardname, because it's a not uncommon last name) is different from other heroic effects in Feather because it directly creates mana, and mana is the limiting factor with Zada and Feather in play.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 months ago

That's quite insightful. To be fair, Zadas are extremely potent game enders in my deck, to the point where I've sometimes spent ten mana (Imperial Recruiter into Goblin Matron) to get one online. However, as you say, that did make some extra bodies along the way.

Your level of expertise suggests you're a Feather player yourself. Got a list anywhere?

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Post by Lifeless » 3 months ago

Huh, Kolvori is quite interesting. Artifact ramp early and a big body with selective card drawing later (although getting her stuck as an artifact is a real risk). I like this design quite a bit.

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Post by Hawk » 3 months ago

Serenade wrote:
3 months ago
...what is the CMC of Valki, God of Lies? Wondering if I can make it my general and switch Obosh to my companion.
Good question. I also assume 2, but these are the first cards we've seen like this (the other MDFC and classic Transform cards all have a CMC of "0" on the backside). 2 seems a safe bet, but then again I can't run Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed in monogreen because the rules of the game treat him as "Green and Black" for the purpose of deckbuilding. If that's the case for Valki, he may be treat like a split card - you can't run Toil // Trouble (either half is 3, but CMC outside the stack is 3+3=6) in an Obosh Companion build, but maybe you can run Valki because 7+2=9? I think we'll need to wait for official rulings to be sure. The ruling also matters for cards like Beseech the Queen, and I'm again not certain of the answer due to how non-intuitive the rulings on stuff like Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary has been (you can't go tutor it with Sylvan Scrying, but you can play the land side out of your deck or graveyard with Oracle of Mul Daya or Crucible of Worlds respectively). Basically, MDFC are weird.
-------------
I had a realization today as I looked at Goldspan Dragon - I was excited yesterday and immediately switched to burned out. This is a cool card that does cool things, and it immediately wore me out to know that he's going to be like $40 and impossible to track down as he tears up formats for the next two years. I'm just so very tired of pushed mythics with infinite text tacked on.

...almost as tired as I am of blue getting to do whatever it wants. Ravenform is sure a card I'll be playing everywhere (I didn't despise Ichthyomorphosis tbh and this is infinity times better), and also classic WotC. "Blue can't KILL cards in play, it has to react. Wait, that's sort of unfair - I mean, the game is all about having cards on the table. So I guess Blue can steal cards , or exile them and give opponents something useless, or tuck them, or freeze them forever. Just as long as it doesn't say destroy, we're good."

"Oh, white drawing cards? Yeah, no - the game will literally die if white ever, ever, ever gets to draw cards. Honestly, even Happily Ever After makes us a bit uncomfortable. We will find some other way for white to be playable, but not by allowing it to draw cards in this card game."

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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

Blue has straight up artifact removal now. Because color pie limitations are for Boros.

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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
3 months ago
Blue has straight up artifact removal now. Because color pie limitations are for Boros.
Well to be fair boros is getting card draw and ramp. And that blue artifact removal is hot garbage. And Blue has always had transmuting effects (e.g. Reality Shift Pongify and interacted with artifacts. Seems fine to me).

If it was an instant it'd be a semi-staple and we'd be maybe more right to be annoyed :)

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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

The center of gravity of this game is its commons. When we see something like this at common, it is a sign that we will will get a strong version at rare ere long.

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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
3 months ago
The center of gravity of this game is its commons. When we see something like this at common, it is a sign that we will will get a strong version at rare ere long.
Ultimately they seem to be pushing the color pie for all colors to be a bit more diverse to support EDH, and it's likely a mistake to print too much splashable stuff that pushes the pie like that.

I share your concerns honestly, but I think there's a strong argument to be made that it's for the best as well since it improves mono color decks so much to have more flexibility.

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Post by Wallycaine » 3 months ago

Hawk wrote:
3 months ago
Serenade wrote:
3 months ago
...what is the CMC of Valki, God of Lies? Wondering if I can make it my general and switch Obosh to my companion.
Good question. I also assume 2, but these are the first cards we've seen like this (the other MDFC and classic Transform cards all have a CMC of "0" on the backside). 2 seems a safe bet, but then again I can't run Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed in monogreen because the rules of the game treat him as "Green and Black" for the purpose of deckbuilding. If that's the case for Valki, he may be treat like a split card - you can't run Toil // Trouble (either half is 3, but CMC outside the stack is 3+3=6) in an Obosh Companion build, but maybe you can run Valki because 7+2=9? I think we'll need to wait for official rulings to be sure. The ruling also matters for cards like Beseech the Queen, and I'm again not certain of the answer due to how non-intuitive the rulings on stuff like Bala Ged Recovery // Bala Ged Sanctuary has been (you can't go tutor it with Sylvan Scrying, but you can play the land side out of your deck or graveyard with Oracle of Mul Daya or Crucible of Worlds respectively). Basically, MDFC are weird.
Okay, so you've got some wrong information mixed in here, so hopefully I can help you clear it up. First off: classic Transform cards no longer have a CMC of 0 on the back side, they are treated as having the CMC of whatever their front face is. Additionally, CMC has nothing to do with color identity, hence why Garruk is Green and Black, because that's calculated completely separately from CMC.

All the official rulings stem from one simple rule: The card is treated as the front face for all purposes other than being played or cast. If something says you can *play* or *cast* a card, then you can use either side, but just for the purposes of searching, it's only the front face. Hence why Sylvan Scrying doesn't work, but Oracle of Mul Daya does.

So extending that to Obosh, as far as deck construction is concerned, the game only cares about Valki, God of Lies. Unfortunately for this plan, that's the even numbered half, so Valki makes a deck invalid for Obosh, the Preypiercer.

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Post by Hawk » 3 months ago

pokken wrote:
3 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
3 months ago
Blue has straight up artifact removal now. Because color pie limitations are for Boros.
Well to be fair boros is getting card draw and ramp. And that blue artifact removal is hot garbage. And Blue has always had transmuting effects (e.g. Reality Shift Pongify and interacted with artifacts. Seems fine to me).

If it was an instant it'd be a semi-staple and we'd be maybe more right to be annoyed :)
Hot garbage seems strong - this is a monoblue, common, exiling Putrefy, with Foretell if you feel like putting it on layaway for later. It is notably a sorcery to Putrefys instant, and I don't think its quite auto-include; I will probably pass on it in most blue decks that also contain Black and/or White, as the glut of instant-speed removal I'll have access to will trump this. But for monoblue, Izzet, Simic, and Temur decks this card feels hard to avoid including as a versatile catch-all answer (the bird is close to irrelevant and much less punishing than the card given to opponents with Reality Shift or even Pongify). I'd wager those decks are targeting a creature or artifact 95% of the time with Beast Within, Chaos Warp, and Imprisoned in the Moon, and again while this is a sorcery it gives a much weaker thing to opponents so I'll be thrilled to run this alongside those staples even though it is on balance "worse" (for the record I don't actually think it is worse than Imprisoned at least).

It isn't a straight-up color pie break, I know - blue gets to "transform and transmute" cards all the time (see above). Blue has never had a card specifically target artifacts like this, but blue gets to Steal Artifacts and Annul artifacts, so it isn't a "break" to let them transmute an in-play artifact. It is emblematic of the bias WotC seems to show design though - they're willing to follow the letter of the law but not the spirit for blue's supposed weaknesses and color pie restraints, but are hyper-vigilant about the letter and spirit of the law for Boros (and specifically white).

And like BeneTleilax said, commons are a center of gravity so if this is now "fine" for a blue common, it opens the door for something even more bonkers at rare or mythic in a few sets.

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Post by Wallycaine » 3 months ago

Hawk wrote:
3 months ago
pokken wrote:
3 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
3 months ago
Blue has straight up artifact removal now. Because color pie limitations are for Boros.
Well to be fair boros is getting card draw and ramp. And that blue artifact removal is hot garbage. And Blue has always had transmuting effects (e.g. Reality Shift Pongify and interacted with artifacts. Seems fine to me).

If it was an instant it'd be a semi-staple and we'd be maybe more right to be annoyed :)
Hot garbage seems strong - this is a monoblue, common, exiling Putrefy, with Foretell if you feel like putting it on layaway for later. It is notably a sorcery to Putrefys instant, and I don't think its quite auto-include; I will probably pass on it in most blue decks that also contain Black and/or White, as the glut of instant-speed removal I'll have access to will trump this. But for monoblue, Izzet, Simic, and Temur decks this card feels hard to avoid including as a versatile catch-all answer (the bird is close to irrelevant and much less punishing than the card given to opponents with Reality Shift or even Pongify). I'd wager those decks are targeting a creature or artifact 95% of the time with Beast Within, Chaos Warp, and Imprisoned in the Moon, and again while this is a sorcery it gives a much weaker thing to opponents so I'll be thrilled to run this alongside those staples even though it is on balance "worse" (for the record I don't actually think it is worse than Imprisoned at least).

It isn't a straight-up color pie break, I know - blue gets to "transform and transmute" cards all the time (see above). Blue has never had a card specifically target artifacts like this, but blue gets to Steal Artifacts and Annul artifacts, so it isn't a "break" to let them transmute an in-play artifact. It is emblematic of the bias WotC seems to show design though - they're willing to follow the letter of the law but not the spirit for blue's supposed weaknesses and color pie restraints, but are hyper-vigilant about the letter and spirit of the law for Boros (and specifically white).

And like BeneTleilax said, commons are a center of gravity so if this is now "fine" for a blue common, it opens the door for something even more bonkers at rare or mythic in a few sets.
I deeply appreciate the lines of complaint that go "I'm going to outline precisely the reasons why this is completely in color pie for blue, but once I've done that, I'll ignore all that and complain about how it clearly represents bias, despite having literally just established why it is okay." Blue gets to transform things. Things include artifacts. Beast Within continues to represent a far more massive color pie break than Ravenform or anything even vaugely resembling Ravenform.

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Post by pokken » 3 months ago

Honestly I don't think any amount of pushed/pie-bending removal is going to break EDH in the end. You only have so many slots for efficient removal and when they push a new one it just pushes a worse card out (say, Bedevil mostly pushing out Dreadbore )

If you consider a scenario where there were say a mix of 10 playable cards in each color that are some variant on 1-3 mana, instant, destroy/exile target <nonland permanent/creature/artifact/enchantment/planeswalker>, you'd still only play ~5-10 of them at most in even the most removal heavy decks.

And having mono-colored decks have access to a couple more of those effects if anything is probably a benefit because those decks tend to be heavily incentivized to be non-interactive because of their lack of good cards.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 months ago

Goldspan Dragon is better than I think it's being credited for in Zada and Feather decks that abuse Zada-esque effects. Notably, the trigger is not when a spell is cast that targets it, but instead when the dragon is targeted. This is important because, as noted in the previous discussion, a common question is "when should you target it"? In a heroic-focused deck, this can be a limitation.

However, in a more Zada focused deck (such as a dedicated Zada list), the copied spells will include the spell copy that targets the dragon, which will then trigger and create a treasure. This makes the dragon extremely effective with Zada, Hedron Grinder and Mirrorwing Dragon effects. I look forward to testing in my Zada and Feather decks.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 months ago

Neat, that's what I get for skimming the card :P In my defence, I'm trying to be more active with adding previews to the site this time around, but that's a crummy line of defence if there ever was one.

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Post by Mookie » 3 months ago

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 3 months ago

I am not that impressed with the new spoils today. It feels odd to see so many spoils and just be left with none of them having seemed that unique or interesting. Elf planeswalker is ok I guess but walkers are fragile in this format. The green god feels uninspiring to me (It seems like a linear build that likely builds itself in that its mono color legendary creatures). The red dragon I guess I don't really know offhand but it feels like its likely not good enough for most commander decks but I guess time will tell.

I guess Reflections of Littjara is the most interesting card of what I have seen today. Blue tribal decks are ok I guess there just aren't that many tribes in blue it feels like.
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Post by SocorroTortoise » 3 months ago

Binding the Old Gods is kind of unexciting as a card, but it's super cool that the art is actually a photo of a carved wooden sculpture.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

Esika seems like a solid addition to 5-color legends, though unlikely to ever beat out Sisay.

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Post by Lifeless » 3 months ago

Did anyone want a 5 color creatureless superfriends commander? Esika, God of the Tree is another interesting one. At first glance it seems like here sides don't interact very favorably, but what do I know.

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