Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
Jared Carthalion, True Heir is so weird. No static abilities, but he is cheap. I guess you are making your opponent the target as monarch, but it might not work out too well dropping him T3 unless someone else can start attacking that monarch. THEN you have to get it back and pump him with what? Pyrohemia? Solar Blaze/Wave of Reckoning? Seems like a lot of hoops...and therefore on point with an old character. =P
Blasphemous Act pretty good. Lots of shenanigans. Chain Reaction too.

Problem with him is you kinda need to be able to force through damage and get the monarch first. My guess is focusing on evasion enabling and hatebears is the way to go.

He's real good with a strong Torpor Orb army of Tocatli Honor Guard Hushbringer Hushwing Gryff etc. (to prevent him from re-enabling monarch if he dies once monarch is in play).

Definitely a lot of weirdness and tension in his abilities though. Like you're gonna need a pretty weird mix of cards to make it work.

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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Well, sorta, except that it might be kinda hard to generate a monarch token at all with a torpor orb in play. There's that land that does the monarchy as an activated ability? I guess you can just wait until after creating the monarchy to play your torpor orb, but then it sort of hurts your curve since you'd probably like to play him on 3.

Actually nvm really, all the monarchy cards are etb triggers...but a decent number are enchantments which still work under torpor orb and co.

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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

With Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant, you do not start noting until he is on the battlefield AND you note all of yours opponents' exiled items, right? Wondering what I can do with Uba Mask...

I think it would work like this:
Uba Mask is on the battlefield, I play him, he does not care what I exiled with Mask. His power is 0.
I pass turn, opponent exiles due to Mask, I note that cmc. His power is that cmc.
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Post by Candlemane » 5 months ago

I'm not very excited about Borca. The ability is cool, but seems at odds with itself. You could easily run a bunch of exiling effects on the low end so you can cast them, but he doesn't count the total CMCs and those spells are probably largely useless. On the other hand you might want to run larger spells, but it only counts the spell for a turn.

I think the way to build Borca to be useful is with cards that might have flashback, jumpstart, and the like so you might get spell use every turn. Valakut Exploration might be an interesting synergy. In any case Broca will have to be carefully balanced if it's the commander to make the deck play off his ability well, so in that there is challenge.


EDIT: Oh, it does say basically any exiled cards, not just your own. That changes a bunch of stuff. Path, Divergent Transformation, Into the Core. I like it better now. Don't forget Luminate Primordial!

Jared is okay. It's a very Naya commander, and I always thought Naya could be more than it usually is (hi Tamanoa). It's definitely more the feudal lands politics over the cloak and dagger kind. Respectible, but nothing too innovative to me. I'd love to be proved wrong though.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 5 months ago

Jared seems like an awesome Pariah commander. He's the Phytohydra I never knew I needed in my command zone. <3

I also love me a flavorful drawback, and boy, is this chap a homerun. I'm going to make a Count of Monte Cristo/revenge themed deck around this guy.

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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
5 months ago
Actually nvm really, all the monarchy cards are etb triggers...but a decent number are enchantments which still work under torpor orb and co.
Yea, nothing about the ability is really that smooth. It has a lot of tension and sequencing issues and places to go wrong.

Mainly, really high risk of giving someone monarch and then never being able to get it back while your general is in play (e.g. people kill him, you take monarch and you can't replay him cos you give it right back).

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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

*cries in horsemanship over Akroma*

Everytime I see Sisay's Ring all i can think is "Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky," really wish WotC could use that for flavor text on it.
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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
Her art is also super snoozy.
Yeah if you look at it side by side with Annointer of Valor you can tell zero effort has gone into art direction, I mean they are literally in the same pose.
Akroma looks like its done by an ameuter and the thing is that Chris Rahn is capable of good work - Savage Knuckleblade.



Then if you look at her previous incarnations they have dynamic angles and unique looks and .. well look awesome and don't look like crap.
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Post by materpillar » 5 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
5 months ago
materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
Her art is also super snoozy.
Yeah if you look at it side by side with Annointer of Valor you can tell zero effort has gone into art direction, I mean they are literally in the same pose.
Akroma looks like its done by an ameuter and the thing is that Chris Rahn is capable of good work - Savage Knuckleblade.



Then if you look at her previous incarnations they have dynamic angles and unique looks and .. well look awesome and don't look like crap.
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lol, I just noticed Akroma isn't wearing pants of any kind. I'd always assumed she was wearing skin-tight white clothes but she's just really super white. If she ever hovers over an army they're all going to be able to see her entire butt. I feel like if I wished forth a spirit of pure vengeance hellbent on the destruction of my enemies that spirit would be clad in a bit more than a bikini, but to each his own I suppose.

Also, why is the Sword of Vengeance a spear now? Meh, I'm really really displeased with basically everything about this Akroma.

Ugh, I just imagined this card with the flavor text of "No rest. No mercy. No matter what." The art just doesn't evoke that in the slightest.

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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
darrenhabib wrote:
5 months ago
materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
Her art is also super snoozy.
Yeah if you look at it side by side with Annointer of Valor you can tell zero effort has gone into art direction, I mean they are literally in the same pose.
Akroma looks like its done by an ameuter and the thing is that Chris Rahn is capable of good work - Savage Knuckleblade.



Then if you look at her previous incarnations they have dynamic angles and unique looks and .. well look awesome and don't look like crap.
Spoiler
Show
Image
lol, I just noticed Akroma isn't wearing pants of any kind. I'd always assumed she was wearing skin-tight white clothes but she's just really super white. If she ever hovers over an army they're all going to be able to see her entire butt. I feel like if I wished forth a spirit of pure vengeance hellbent on the destruction of my enemies that spirit would be clad in a bit more than a bikini, but to each his own I suppose.

Also, why is the Sword of Vengeance a spear now? Meh, I'm really really displeased with basically everything about this Akroma.

Ugh, I just imagined this card with the flavor text of "No rest. No mercy. No matter what." The art just doesn't evoke that in the slightest.
It's almost as though this represents Akroma at a different point in the story (It does). She loses the Sword of Vengeance and starts using a spear made out of Ixidor, Reality Sculptor's staff, along with having her legs burned off by acid (for the second time) and replaced with swords. This represents Akroma's more 'final' form, when she's leading an army, rather than her early days in the pit fighting alongside Ixidor.

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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

Hermes_ wrote:
5 months ago
*cries in horsemanship over Akroma*

Everytime I see Sisay's Ring all i can think is "Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky," really wish WotC could use that for flavor text on it.
Unfortunately, the Tolkien Estate is notoriously litigious. Which is how we ended up with Halflings in D&D and Kithkin in MTG rather than hobbitses.
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
Hermes_ wrote:
5 months ago
*cries in horsemanship over Akroma*

Everytime I see Sisay's Ring all i can think is "Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky," really wish WotC could use that for flavor text on it.
Unfortunately, the Tolkien Estate is notoriously litigious. Which is how we ended up with Halflings in D&D and Kithkin in MTG rather than hobbitses.
As well as a Tolkien estate that, post Hobbit trilogy, will no longer have anything to do with the studios that shot them.

But hey this is why you make vorthos decks right? Sisay's Ring can totally be the three rings, you just suspend disbelief or get some alters made,
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 5 months ago

I'd missed Body of Knowledge before, and that's an amazing card for Nin, the Pain Artist and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind decks.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
Hermes_ wrote:
5 months ago
*cries in horsemanship over Akroma*

Everytime I see Sisay's Ring all i can think is "Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky," really wish WotC could use that for flavor text on it.
Unfortunately, the Tolkien Estate is notoriously litigious. Which is how we ended up with Halflings in D&D and Kithkin in MTG rather than hobbitses.
As well as a Tolkien estate that, post Hobbit trilogy, will no longer have anything to do with the studios that shot them.

But hey this is why you make vorthos decks right? Sisay's Ring can totally be the three rings, you just suspend disbelief or get some alters made,
Good thing they've greenlit a TV series based on the Silmarillion then. Can't remember if it was Netflix or HBO, but I for one am looking forward to it. It is my favorite of his books. Glaurung is the best evil dragon after all.
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago


Unfortunately, the Tolkien Estate is notoriously litigious. Which is how we ended up with Halflings in D&D and Kithkin in MTG rather than hobbitses.
As well as a Tolkien estate that, post Hobbit trilogy, will no longer have anything to do with the studios that shot them.

But hey this is why you make vorthos decks right? Sisay's Ring can totally be the three rings, you just suspend disbelief or get some alters made,
Good thing they've greenlit a TV series based on the Silmarillion then. Can't remember if it was Netflix or HBO, but I for one am looking forward to it. It is my favorite of his books. Glaurung is the best evil dragon after all.
Its Amazon. They're shooting in my country either right now or very shortly.

Glaurung is awesome. I think for me its the toss up between a literal army of Balrogs and Ungoliant. Both are pretty awesome.

Pretty sure the series follows the events of the second age only though. So the forging of the rings and the betrayal of the elves by Sauron. Which is cool, but man would it be cooler to see the elves get down with Morgoth.
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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago

As well as a Tolkien estate that, post Hobbit trilogy, will no longer have anything to do with the studios that shot them.

But hey this is why you make vorthos decks right? Sisay's Ring can totally be the three rings, you just suspend disbelief or get some alters made,
Good thing they've greenlit a TV series based on the Silmarillion then. Can't remember if it was Netflix or HBO, but I for one am looking forward to it. It is my favorite of his books. Glaurung is the best evil dragon after all.
Its Amazon. They're shooting in my country either right now or very shortly.

Glaurung is awesome. I think for me its the toss up between a literal army of Balrogs and Ungoliant. Both are pretty awesome.

Pretty sure the series follows the events of the second age only though. So the forging of the rings and the betrayal of the elves by Sauron. Which is cool, but man would it be cooler to see the elves get down with Morgoth.
If that is all they cover, then it is more based on the Book of Lost Stories than the Silmarillion though. For it to have been based on the Silmarillion you need the destruction of the trees, the forging of the Silmarillions, the theft of the stones, the Elven Exodus, the war against Morgoth, the unleashing of the dragons, the gods literally walking the earth, the loss of the stones, the source of the dwarf/elf conflict (surprise, it was the Silmarillions), the birth of the half-elves, the separated siblings, the death of Glaurung, the black blade, and the only human to ever visit the ancestral homeland of the elves.

It is such an epic story it's a shame they decided to make a movie about the aftermath and the rings rather than all the stuff that is basically the cause of all the strife in LotR verse.
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Post by Dunharrow » 5 months ago

Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
5 months ago
Krishnath wrote:
5 months ago

Good thing they've greenlit a TV series based on the Silmarillion then. Can't remember if it was Netflix or HBO, but I for one am looking forward to it. It is my favorite of his books. Glaurung is the best evil dragon after all.
Its Amazon. They're shooting in my country either right now or very shortly.

Glaurung is awesome. I think for me its the toss up between a literal army of Balrogs and Ungoliant. Both are pretty awesome.

Pretty sure the series follows the events of the second age only though. So the forging of the rings and the betrayal of the elves by Sauron. Which is cool, but man would it be cooler to see the elves get down with Morgoth.
If that is all they cover, then it is more based on the Book of Lost Stories than the Silmarillion though. For it to have been based on the Silmarillion you need the destruction of the trees, the forging of the Silmarillions, the theft of the stones, the Elven Exodus, the war against Morgoth, the unleashing of the dragons, the gods literally walking the earth, the loss of the stones, the source of the dwarf/elf conflict (surprise, it was the Silmarillions), the birth of the half-elves, the separated siblings, the death of Glaurung, the black blade, and the only human to ever visit the ancestral homeland of the elves.

It is such an epic story it's a shame they decided to make a movie about the aftermath and the rings rather than all the stuff that is basically the cause of all the strife in LotR verse.
If the name Dunharrow didnt' give it away, I'll let you know I am a big fan.
Just to kinda answer a few things in this conversation:
1. Christopher Tolkien stepped down as head of the Tolkien Estate. He was always against any adaptations. First thing they did after he stepped down was auction off the rights to all the remaining text (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin), with Amazon winning for something like 2 billion dollars.
2. Amazon, last I heard, was planning at least two series, though I think they are only filming one right now (in Toc's New Zealand). They have not been clear about the subject matter. I hoped they would start with the Silmarillion.
3. We could be entering an era of licensing characters and settings to many things, including games. Lord of the Rings spawned some great video games. So do not dismiss Secret Lair : Middle-Earth any time soon! *groan*
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 5 months ago

materpillar wrote:
5 months ago
lol, I just noticed Akroma isn't wearing pants of any kind. I'd always assumed she was wearing skin-tight white clothes but she's just really super white. If she ever hovers over an army they're all going to be able to see her entire butt.
That's how she got the army in the first place

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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
5 months ago
I'd missed Body of Knowledge before, and that's an amazing card for Nin, the Pain Artist and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind decks.
Yeah, that one is absolutely finding a spot in my Nin deck.
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

I'll certainly try out Body of Knowledge in Nin, but it will be difficult to find a spot for it. Especially after we just got a great five-drop in Brash Taunter!
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

The 9 mana mythic Sorcery for White got revealed, and Triumphant Reckoning is... actually fairly spicy? A 1 sided Open the Vaults could be interesting for decks looking for that effect, and it tacks on mass planeswalker revival, which is fairly rare.

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Post by Krishnath » 5 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
5 months ago
If the name Dunharrow didnt' give it away, I'll let you know I am a big fan.
Just to kinda answer a few things in this conversation:
1. Christopher Tolkien stepped down as head of the Tolkien Estate. He was always against any adaptations. First thing they did after he stepped down was auction off the rights to all the remaining text (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The Children of Hurin, Beren and Luthien, The Fall of Gondolin), with Amazon winning for something like 2 billion dollars.
2. Amazon, last I heard, was planning at least two series, though I think they are only filming one right now (in Toc's New Zealand). They have not been clear about the subject matter. I hoped they would start with the Silmarillion.
3. We could be entering an era of licensing characters and settings to many things, including games. Lord of the Rings spawned some great video games. So do not dismiss Secret Lair : Middle-Earth any time soon! *groan*
1. Good he decided to step down. He wasn't really suited for the work, and I am glad he realized this.
2. Two series is nice. I've always thought there was a lot of space in middle earth for smaller, less epic, but still cool stories. There are so many characters mentioned in passing in Tolkien's works with barely any detail on what they did to warrant a mention. And there were plenty of mysteries in the books as well. Like what happened to the Stone Giants? And what was that thing in the pool outside the mines of Moria. And so on. Hopefully Amazon will explore this in one of their series.
3. I would not be surprised, but at least it would be fantasy, unlike another recent SL.
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Post by Rorseph » 5 months ago



I think my Aurelia/Gisela equipment deck wants this instead of, or maybe in addition to, Duelist's Heritage. Double-strike is pretty damned good with the various Swords of X and Y.
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Post by DirkGently » 5 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
The 9 mana mythic Sorcery for White got revealed, and Triumphant Reckoning is... actually fairly spicy? A 1 sided Open the Vaults could be interesting for decks looking for that effect, and it tacks on mass planeswalker revival, which is fairly rare.
Idk, that whole cycle looks pretty underwhelming to me. Which is fine, really, I don't want more oops-i-win-the-game cards. 9 mana sorceries are like...the hardest thing in the game to play, though, and none of them seem like they really justify that cost.

White one is definitely better than the black one, though, so at least white didn't get the shaft this time.

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Post by Mookie » 5 months ago

I'm underwhelmed by Triumphant Reckoning, but that's partially because I'm already running Open the Vaults and Roar of Reclamation in my Sharuum deck. Nine mana is... a lot, and I'm not entirely convinced that making it asymmetric is worth it. Depends on how much grave hate you have, I suppose, and how valuable the planeswalker reanimation is. Still, I'm never going to totally disregard any mass reanimation effect... and I've certainly been hoping for more in white.

Meanwhile:
Enchantment decks: *laughs in Replenish*

As for other stuff....
Frenzied Saddlebrute is amusing design.
Volcanic Torrent is sweet. Not the most consistent board wipe, but cascaaaaade is always interesting.
Hamza, Guardian of Arashin is... very intriguing. Sort of an Animar, Soul of Elements for a go-wide +1/+1 strategy, instead of a go-tall one. Not as consistent, and being pigeonholed into +1/+1 counters significantly limits the creatures you can include, but... there's presumably something broken it can enable (beyond the obvious Cathars' Crusade shenanigans).

(Codex Shredder and Seraph of Dawn reprints make me happy)

....now I have to do another look-over to see what cards I actually want.

Edit: Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait is absurd, as a Tatyova, Benthic Druid with Exploration built in. Because what the format clearly needed was a better Tatyova. Wyleth, Soul of Steel also looks solid.
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