Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Gashnaw
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Post by Gashnaw » 5 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
5 months ago
[Hell, Hullbreacher could've been white's ticket into Vintage and they gave it to blue?
But WotC does not care about vintage.

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

I hate Hullbreacher quite a bit, but not quite as much as Jeweled Lotus. Blue did not need this effect. I'm not sure any color needed this effect, but stealing this from white is particularly bad.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

WotC will tell us they just want to support the UB flash stuff they printed in Ikoria.

Aren't most hatebears in non-Dimir? As protection against Dimir? Switch the P/T and creature types, and this card easily is white.
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

brainface
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Post by brainface » 5 months ago

Hullbreacher is a type of card I immediately love because I think it's made to combat excess card advantage and then I remember it's in the color of wheels and prosperity.

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 5 months ago

Wow. Someone clearly saw the ubiquity of Dockside Extortionist, felt a certain way that Red has one of the most powerful EDH ramp effects in the format currently, and wanted U to ACTUALLY to reign supreme. Enter Hullbreacher. Let's create yet another two-card combo that ruins all the fun of EDH if you don't have a Card Advantage Commander!

Long Live the Most Powerful Card in MTG!

In other news, these hate-bear cards will have a MASSIVE impact in cEDH style games. That format is built on draw-7's and tutoring and these new Hate-bears in the (arguably) two most powerful colors guarantees their inclusion in basically EVERY single cEDH deck that can support them. It will be interesting to see the long-term effects in cEDH lists as these cards muscle their way into the format.

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
WotC will tell us they just want to support the UB flash stuff they printed in Ikoria.

Aren't most hatebears in non-Dimir? As protection against Dimir? Switch the P/T and creature types, and this card easily is white.
Ahh, I see it's time for the semi-annual "No, that isn't a white card" discussion.

Let's start with Opposition Agent. It's not a white card because it's not a white payoff. White doesn't get to search other players libraries for cards, it doesn't get to control other players, and it certainly doesn't get to get card advantage off hosing search effects. Additionally, when white prevents searching, it either does so evenly or still offers a chance to hit the right card. So at anything beyond the most superficial level, Opposition agent can't be a white card.

Hullbreacher is definitely closer. But it's still not a white effect. When white hoses card draw, it's symmetrical or provides a consolation prize. That's because, while white is primary in rules setting, it's not primary in manipulating card draw... that's blue. And shutting off your opponent's card draw while not affecting your own is a Blue effect, and has been for a long time. Additionally, generating treasure tokens has been a Blue effect recently, while White has only gotten (to the best of my knowledge) one treasure generating card in Smothering Tithe, which plays on the taxation theme to make it less of a bend. So simply swapping the power and toughness would not make this a white card. You'd have to either make it symmetrical somehow, or give the opponent's the treasure instead, both of which would ruin the utility of the design they were looking for.

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Serenade
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Post by Serenade » 5 months ago

Isn't the symmetry that white rarely can draw a second card a turn? =P
Mirri, Cat Warrior counts as a Cat Warrior.

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

Serenade wrote:
5 months ago
Isn't the symmetry that white rarely can draw a second card a turn? =P
And if it had the text "This card can only be played in Mono-White", that might be a point :P

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 5 months ago

The more of these "powered" cards come out, the more I'm okay with the set having them. Aven Mindcensor and Narset, Parter of Veils/Notion Thief existed already. True, Opposition Agent is stronger than Mindcensor on account of getting a theft-tutor on ETB, but the primary purpose is the same. It's a huge bummer as both these trump Keeper of the Accord. Given the whole white having hatebears angle, and prior cards to hate on this sort of stuff, would it really have been that bad to put this in white? Maybe limited balance or something.

I'm even largely okay with Kodama by now. Last year's kitchen sink brawl legends were complete engines out of the command zone. Compare Kodama to, say, Chulane. Yeah, Kodama ramps very solidly, but you actually have to piece something together around him for things to get stupid. At least it requires a modicum of effort investment. The less variance a piece needs to do the thing the better - I run Aurelia rather than Moraug in Ghired, despite the latter's far higher ceiling. I'm still not exactly jumping for joy that Kodama (or the other stuff) exists, but they probably won't warp the format.

Pokken acting as the Kodama reality check was good :P
 
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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 5 months ago

Dodging discussion of Hullbreacher for now to talk about how sick Sakashima of a Thousand Faces is. Mirror Gallery in the Command Zone is awesome! Being able to double up on some of the new partners is also awesome. I cannot wait to brew with him.

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

Sakashima is pretty amazing. Aside from all of the partner possibilities, I think it will be kinda bonkers in Brudiclad.

They have really pushed pirates as a tribe. Coercive Recruiter is quite nice.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

BeneTleilax
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Post by BeneTleilax » 5 months ago

bad zealous conscripts can only creatues

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

There is this card called Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker that most of you will have never of heard of, it's a bit of unknown due to it not really being useful with anything.
Anyway finally they have printed some cards that you can go infinite with in Coercive Recruiter and Port Razer. Phew finally a use for it!

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Post by brainface » 5 months ago

Uhhh do Sakashima of a Thousand Faces and Kodama of the East Tree interact? So that if you play, say, a 3-cmc drop, you get a trigger from kodada, a trigger from fake kodama, use the trigger from kodama, which then triggers fake kodama, use the trigger from fake kodama which then triggers sakashima until you're out of 3 cmc or less drops?

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darrenhabib
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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

Mana Drain reprint. Now there is a way to pay for a box with a lottery card. Who need to go to the casino when you have Magic as a hobby!

Wallycaine
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Post by Wallycaine » 5 months ago

brainface wrote:
5 months ago
Uhhh do Sakashima of a Thousand Faces and Kodama of the East Tree interact? So that if you play, say, a 3-cmc drop, you get a trigger from kodada, a trigger from fake kodama, use the trigger from kodama, which then triggers fake kodama, use the trigger from fake kodama which then triggers sakashima until you're out of 3 cmc or less drops?
That's correct. You'll even get a 6 cmc trigger off the copy etbing, so you can chain off from there.

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Airi
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Post by Airi » 5 months ago

Ugh, I was really looking forward to Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, but in addition to not being great as a clone general, every possible partner I could put together for them is just going to feel worse knowing that Kodama of the East Tree exists.
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Hermes_
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Post by Hermes_ » 5 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
brainface wrote:
5 months ago
Uhhh do Sakashima of a Thousand Faces and Kodama of the East Tree interact? So that if you play, say, a 3-cmc drop, you get a trigger from kodada, a trigger from fake kodama, use the trigger from kodama, which then triggers fake kodama, use the trigger from fake kodama which then triggers sakashima until you're out of 3 cmc or less drops?
That's correct. You'll even get a 6 cmc trigger off the copy etbing, so you can chain off from there.
And then get smacked :chairhit:
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pokken
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Post by pokken » 5 months ago

Airi wrote:
5 months ago
Ugh, I was really looking forward to Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, but in addition to not being great as a clone general, every possible partner I could put together for them is just going to feel worse knowing that Kodama of the East Tree exists.
I feel like two tymnas makes a really nice hatebear deck :)

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Well, the spoils thus far today have been bonkers.

Hullbreacher is obviously gross, and I find myself yet again disappointed that blue gets all the goodies, but whatevs.
They weren't screwing around when they said Unbelievable Reprints!. At the risk of sounding greedy, I do want to see more in the rest of the spoils in terms of non-chase format staples. I have a pretty extensive list of stuff I'd like to see that probably isn't worth holding out hope for but we will see.

I love Sakashima of a Thousand Faces. He's pretty amazing. So is his Protege.
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

Airi wrote:
5 months ago
Ugh, I was really looking forward to Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, but in addition to not being great as a clone general, every possible partner I could put together for them is just going to feel worse knowing that Kodama of the East Tree exists.
I'm pretty sure I can provide you with a quote of your own stating that Simic is the worst. You're not wrong, so just...don't go there, problem solved :)
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nobody
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Post by nobody » 5 months ago

for those that think that kodoma of the east + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces is the best partner combination,
krark, the tumbles + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces would like to have a word with you!

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Post by toctheyounger » 5 months ago

I don't think it's the best, T+T is clearly the best. I just think Simic is so pushed it's lost all semblance of any flavour it might once have had. It's just Guild=Win More, these days. I really just wish WotC would reassess how they sculpt Simic legends, they seriously do not need any more help.
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Couver
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Post by Couver » 5 months ago

Probably an exercise in futility but I'm determined to make Radiant, Serra Archangel work. Until today I figured the best partner for her was Siani, Eye of the Storm but what do people think of Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood ? Gives you the ramp from green and a small payoff with card draw. Slim pickings as far as small green flyers go though so the deck would likely skew mono w. It does also give access to Sigarda, Host of Herons and Shalai, Voice of Plenty which is nice when trying to voltron with Radiant.

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Myllior
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Post by Myllior » 5 months ago

I love Kodama of the East Tree and Sakashima of a Thousand Faces for their Kamigawan flavour and unique abilities, and being able to pair them in the command zone is filthy. But you can go a step further and turn them into a cloneball deck, thanks to Prime Speaker Zegana.

Start: Kodama on the field and Zegana in hand. (You're in green, so this is easy).
1. Play Sakashima, copying Kodama.
2. Drop Zegana and stack triggers to draw first.
3. Draw 7 and drop a clone, copying Zegana.
4. Stack triggers, draw 8, drop clone copying Zegana.
...
n-3. Drop various small draw effects (e.g. Elvish Visionary) to draw remainder of deck without overdrawing.
n-2. Drop Concordant Crossroads.
n-1. Drop all your lands.
n. Cast Craterhoof Behemoth and send your mega-Zeganas in for victory.

This is obviously a very one-dimensional way to play the pair, acting as a weaker version of the Momir Vig, Simic Visionary combo deck, but it seemed too silly to not mention it.

Personally, I'll be pairing Kodama with Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker (as Rumpy suggested pages ago) since I have a Bant clone deck that doesn't care if it casts Roon of the Hidden Realm or not, so I may as well get more value out of my commander. (I'll likely add Sakashima too).

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