Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

Another fun thing, Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh makes Mox Amber very very close to Mox Ruby. Its still not the same as recasting post wrath it won't immediately help but its as close to an original mox as we have gotten.
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Post by ZenN » 5 months ago

A sort of neat use for Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh could be Mutate creatures. Adds three very good keyword abilities, and is a neat way to power him up to commander damage people.
Commander
Golos, ETB Pilgrim - Value Town
Maelstrom Wanderer a.k.a. The Kool-Aid Man
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King - OM NOM NOM
Kykar, Wind's Fury - Spellslinger + Tokens

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Post by Hawk » 5 months ago

Trying to give a better look:

- I can't decide if Wheel of Misfortune is awesome or garbage. Definitely seems like it is worth testing in my discard-and-draw hungry R/x decks like Daretti and Sevinne.
- I actually sorta dig Numa, Joraga Chieftain as an Elf Tribal commander. The trick will be if there are any Elven Partners for him - right now there's just Tana, the Bloodsower which isn't awful but I want more.
- I do think a Breeches, Brazen Plunderer // Malcolm Keen-Eyed Navigator Pirate Tribal deck sounds amusing. Upon examination there are 14 1-2 mana Pirates with some manner of Evasion in Izzet plus several more just generally solid dudes to help curve into treasure and plunder. Seems fun.
- Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith is amazing. Best card since The Rock.

EDIT: Since everyone is talking about him, I also think Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh is amazing and I think he's a must-buy for any tinkerer. He's a very cheap way to add Red on to any team, and he's also a Kobold. I'd bet a lot that there's a significant influx of good Kobold Tribal stuff in Forgotten Realms next summer, so this little dude is just going to keep getting better.

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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

Hawk wrote:
5 months ago
- Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith is amazing. Best card since The Rock.
I had not noticed Toggo until now. He's pretty hilarious.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

Wheel of Misfortune - Its interesting and yet also kind of annoying. My issue with it is primarily that the way in which to choose hidden information tends to be kind of tedious and not supported well by default in a game of magic. Its not the end of the world or anything but I also don't think that it flows very naturally. Its an interesting effect being a mind game sort of thing that every player and meta might play differently. I suspect a lot of players will choose a number between 2 and 10 because paying more than that in life seems probably like a poor choice. You want to be in the middle. I guess if you love your hand you just choose 1.

Its..... different. I don't think I will play it myself but I suspect I will see someone else play it at least once or twice. I don't personally think its a very good card. I wonder how often the right play in this card is to choose either 1 or 2. If you don't want to discard your hand you choose 1. If you would be open to the idea choose 2. If everyone chooses 1 or 2 then the card is not playable lol.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 5 months ago

I'd like a proper Abzan lifegain or enchantress general, but I'm pretty happy with it so far. There's a couple cards I want to pick up for my decks, a couple long-needed reprints, and it looks fun to draft. That's a win in my book.

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Post by WizardMN » 5 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
5 months ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
5 months ago
Lifeless wrote:
5 months ago
Rograkh puts a smile on my face, that's for sure. Not really convinced there's anything worth doing with him though.
My immediate thoughts on who to pair him with and or what to do with him:
  • Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Could do sort of a sac / counters strategy. Having a free cast commander could help in that having something worth putting Reyhan's counters on that curves ahead of him can be relevant. As soon as Reyhan would be in play you could combat trick counters around with a sac outlet making blocking challenging for opponents. Opal Palace was a card that I thought was kind of amusing for both commanders here and you pick up green land search options with Reyhan so thats kind of cool.
  • Akiri, Line-Slinger - Equipment seems like a natural synergy with Rograkh and Akiri likes them too. Both commanders having first strike means you could just lean into more power style of equipment if you want. Picking up white with an equipment strategy is also probably a good thing as there is plenty of equipment synergy in the two colors.
Those were the two that jumped out to me the most at least as of right now.
Another cute one that Gavin pointed out on twitter is Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools: He likes having cheap sac fodder guarenteed, and it's even better that it's a commander, so you can draw the extra card off Tevesh's +1. Plus, it gives you access to red, so you can combine Tevesh's sac engine with steal effects.
That's actually not a bad idea. I have tried a few Rakdos decks in the past, and I am not a huge fan of partner in general, but that idea seems like it could have merit and get me a permanent Rakdos deck in my lineup. The main issue I see is the open-endedness of the pairing. That is, they don't really push towards a certain build and I tend to end up with goodstuff builds in those cases.

I think the theft subtheme is warranted, as would be a token subtheme. I think there are a few ways to make him work pretty decently.

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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

Lifeless wrote:
5 months ago
Rograkh puts a smile on my face, that's for sure. Not really convinced there's anything worth doing with him though.
I made a combo deck that needed zero costed creatures.
You can use Enduring Renewal or Yomiji, Who Bars the Way with a sacrifice outlet for infinite recursion.
Spoiler
Show
I was also using Remembrance with Wheel of Sun and Moon to sacrifice zero cost creatures and you could search for the creature that was then on the bottom of library. Oh yeah I went deep.
Cloudstone Curio with another zero costed creature for infinite bounce and use that in conjunction with some other card that triggers with creatures entering the battlefield.

It can turbo charge some mana sources.
Springleaf Drum, Paradise Mantle, Mox Amber, Loam Dryad, Saruli Caretaker, Culling the Weak.

It's good fodder for Reality Scramble, Divergent Transformations, Transmogrify type strategies.

Skullclamp got a target in the early game.
Explorer's Scope especially if combined with Sensei's Divining Top in the first few turns.

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 5 months ago

I now kinda wanna make a mono-red commander, commander deck. I think there is something fun to find in some combo of Jeska, the lizard familiar and Bloodsworn Steward. Breeches or Rograkh as a cheap aggro and then use Jeska and/or the lizard to help them hit commander damage fast.

Idk I just really find it nifty to make a deck that really plays around with commander loving/matter cards.
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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

Hawk wrote:
5 months ago
I can't decide if Wheel of Misfortune is awesome or garbage.
I think it has advantages in that often Wheel of Fortune gets Counterspell because the blue mage doesn't want to discard the hand they've been working on. So in this respect it is likely to not get countered as much, if at all really.
If you've dumped your hand and need a refill then a potential one-sided Wheel of Fortune is incredible. Now of course you need to pick the highest number and in certain situations you might as well treat it like a Cruel Bargain and just go for something like 20 life as often refilling your hand is going to be the way to win.
Opponents are far less likely to go a higher number than you as they have also been sculpting their game around their hand, but in the cases that they have also dumped their hands or have hot garbage then they'd need to go 21 or over and this is a pretty mana efficient way to deal damage.

I really like the design of this card, it kind of has an "Un" set feel to it with the name and the effects.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

BeneTleilax wrote:
5 months ago
I'd like a proper Abzan lifegain or enchantress general, but I'm pretty happy with it so far. There's a couple cards I want to pick up for my decks, a couple long-needed reprints, and it looks fun to draft. That's a win in my book.
I did a Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper creatures deck a few years back that was really good at lifegain. It wasn't dedicated lifegain only but it was really good at it. I ended up running Karlov of the Ghost Council in the 99 as an indication of how good it was at gaining life. I came at it with sort of a "low curve" concept with both partners acting like anthems of sort. One drawing cards and the other giving life.

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... junk-beats

In case you wanted to see an example decklist. Its a few years out of date but it was a very solid deck.
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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

Newly spoiled, Colfenor, the Last Yew, is a pretty cool card. It's a pretty good recursion enabler just by being on your battlefield with a few other creatures and maybe a sac outlet. Useful without being overpowered, and just a solid design. It even feels sort of like a Lorwyn-block card.
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Post by WizardMN » 5 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
5 months ago
Hawk wrote:
5 months ago
I can't decide if Wheel of Misfortune is awesome or garbage.
I think it has advantages in that often Wheel of Fortune gets Counterspell because the blue mage doesn't want to discard the hand they've been working on. So in this respect it is likely to not get countered as much, if at all really.
If you've dumped your hand and need a refill then a potential one-sided Wheel of Fortune is incredible. Now of course you need to pick the highest number and in certain situations you might as well treat it like a Cruel Bargain and just go for something like 20 life as often refilling your hand is going to be the way to win.
Opponents are far less likely to go a higher number than you as they have also been sculpting their game around their hand, but in the cases that they have also dumped their hands or have hot garbage then they'd need to go 21 or over and this is a pretty mana efficient way to deal damage.

I really like the design of this card, it kind of has an "Un" set feel to it with the name and the effects.
The dilemma with the card is what number to pick. As mentioned, 1 guarantees that you don't discard or take damage so perhaps Player A is going to pick '1'. Player B then tries to play into that and chooses '4' just in case they go a little higher but they are pretty sure Player A doesn't want to discard. Player C goes with '10' because they really want cards and don't care about the damage. Now, player D (let's say the player who cast it) is almost always going to be doing so because they want cards. So, they go with '15' because they have life to spare.

So, Player A keeps their hand (they had the lowest). Player D takes 15 damage (they had the highest). And then Players B, C, *and* D will discard their hands and draw 7 but Players B and C won't take any damage.

This will rarely (if ever) be a one sided Wheel and the damage it causes is 1) only going to damage one person and 2) probably not going to be very high anyway as people might lean towards being frugal with their number while also trying to be just high enough to not be the lowest number.

So, the question becomes: what number makes sense? In any 4 person group, it stands to reason that at least one person wants to keep their hand and the other 3 will know it. This may keep the numbers chosen to be fairly low. Sure, there might be a chance all 4 players want a new hand and then it is just a mind game to just be the second lowest. Players don't need to be the highest to get cards.

I do like the card and expect to try it in Gisela and perhaps a new Rakdos deck but at the time where 3 people still get to discard and draw it doesn't seem that much better than just Wheel of Fortune (especially since it forces the player who wanted to keep their hand to discard it). Sure, there is no damage, but that is a crapshoot as it is anyway.
Last edited by WizardMN 5 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

JWK wrote:
5 months ago
Newly spoiled, Colfenor, the Last Yew, is a pretty cool card. It's a pretty good recursion enabler just by being on your battlefield with a few other creatures and maybe a sac outlet. Useful without being overpowered, and just a solid design. It even feels sort of like a Lorwyn-block card.
My concerns being that its a six mana commander that looks like you need to funnel mana into everything the deck would do. It would be fun to juggle some Sakura-Tribe Elder with some other ETB / Dies creatures but I also think that it would take a lot of time to spin this sort of thing up. I think it likely would turn into some sort of Wood Elves / Solemn Simulacrum.deck but that still sounds REAL slow lol.
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Post by WizardMN » 5 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
5 months ago
JWK wrote:
5 months ago
Newly spoiled, Colfenor, the Last Yew, is a pretty cool card. It's a pretty good recursion enabler just by being on your battlefield with a few other creatures and maybe a sac outlet. Useful without being overpowered, and just a solid design. It even feels sort of like a Lorwyn-block card.
My concerns being that its a six mana commander that looks like you need to funnel mana into everything the deck would do. It would be fun to juggle some Sakura-Tribe Elder with some other ETB / Dies creatures but I also think that it would take a lot of time to spin this sort of thing up. I think it likely would turn into some sort of Wood Elves / Solemn Simulacrum.deck but that still sounds REAL slow lol.
I agree that at 6 mana it is pretty tough to warrant its inclusion, even as a commander, for "just" a Raise Dead effect. I thought about it for Karador in the 99 but even there it seems like it would be far too slow. Perhaps it can be used as sort of an anti-wrath effect?

But as a general, and because it is toughness based, you have to spread out your toughness a little more and it means Sakura and Wood Elves can't get each other for example so there is a little utility lost with smaller creatures.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 5 months ago

WizardMN wrote:
5 months ago
The dilemma with the card is what number to pick. As mentioned, 1 guarantees that you don't discard or take damage so perhaps Player A is going to pick '1'. Player B then tries to play into that and chooses '4' just in case they go a little higher but they are pretty sure Player A doesn't want to discard. Player C goes with '10' because they really want cards and don't care about the damage. Now, player D (let's say the player who cast it) is almost always going to be doing so because they want cards. So, they go with '15' because they have life to spare.

So, Player A keeps their hand (they had the lowest). Player D takes 15 damage (they had the highest). And then Players B, C, *and* D will discard their hands and draw 7 but Players B and C won't take any damage.

This will rarely (if ever) be a one sided Wheel and the damage it causes is 1) only going to damage one person and 2) probably not going to be very high anyway as people might lean towards being frugal with their number while also trying to be just high enough to not be the lowest number.

So, the question becomes: what number makes sense? In any 4 person group, it stands to reason that at least one person wants to keep their hand and the other 3 will know it. This may keep the numbers chosen to be fairly low. Sure, there might be a chance all 4 players want a new hand and then it is just a mind game to just be the second lowest. Players don't need to be the highest to get cards.

I do like the card and expect to try it in Gisela and perhaps a new Rakdos deck but at the time where 3 people still get to discard and draw it doesn't seem that much better than just Wheel of Fortune (especially since it forces the player who wanted to keep their hand to discard it). Sure, there is no damage, but that is a crapshoot as it is anyway.
The more I think about it, I sort of doubt that players will go above 10 much after playing this much at all. I actually suspect a lot of players will end up somewhere in the 3-8 range quite a bit assuming players play this card much. What is the chance that choosing 7 is every going to be the low number? If that is the low number do you really want to be the high number? I would be surprised if the low number ends up being a number above 5 much of ever in part because there is the question of if anyone at the table would ever not want to discard their hand. If you don't want to discard your hand you always choose one so it seems fairly safe to pick a number just above that and assume that someone at the table might not want to ditch their hand.

It depends on the players, their playstiles, and how they do this but assuming you even get one person who on average does not like wheeling suddenly the life numbers on this effect go way down.
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Post by Dragoon » 5 months ago

So many fun stuff in this set, I'm in love with Wheel of Misfortune. I don't know where I will play it, but I'll definitely get a pimped version of the card!

For Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh, I was considering playing it with Tymna the Weaver or Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder. Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder can really help with the Voltron strategy and white has some amazing synergies with auras and/or equipment (as well as protection). Black can offer easy card advantage and deathtouch which, combined with the first strike and trample than Rograkh already has, can prove to be really useful.
ISBPathfinder wrote:
5 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
5 months ago
I'd like a proper Abzan lifegain or enchantress general, but I'm pretty happy with it so far. There's a couple cards I want to pick up for my decks, a couple long-needed reprints, and it looks fun to draft. That's a win in my book.
I did a Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper creatures deck a few years back that was really good at lifegain. It wasn't dedicated lifegain only but it was really good at it. I ended up running Karlov of the Ghost Council in the 99 as an indication of how good it was at gaining life. I came at it with sort of a "low curve" concept with both partners acting like anthems of sort. One drawing cards and the other giving life.

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... junk-beats

In case you wanted to see an example decklist. Its a few years out of date but it was a very solid deck.
Seconded! I've also built this kind of deck a few years back. I was a bit tired of playing defensive lifegain and I've built it in such a way that all the lifegain cards only triggered when attacking or blocking. It was really fun and a nice change of pace from the usual lifegain / pillowfort stuff. Mine was more of a midrange kind of deck though, using creatures such as Archangel of Thune, Baneslayer Angel and Wurmcoil Engine.
Decklist(s) on this forum: WUBRG [Golos] Maelstrom 2: Erratic Boogaloo (randomness themed deck) WUBRG

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Post by darrenhabib » 5 months ago

@WizardMN you'll know this one.

With Colfenor, the Last Yew if I cast Endless One and Phyrexian Marauder for one mana and sacrifice to Ashnod's Altar will I be able to get the other back from graveyard, as I assume the toughness is determined to what it was at when it actually died, rather than the stats on the card?

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Post by JWK » 5 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
5 months ago
JWK wrote:
5 months ago
Newly spoiled, Colfenor, the Last Yew, is a pretty cool card. It's a pretty good recursion enabler just by being on your battlefield with a few other creatures and maybe a sac outlet. Useful without being overpowered, and just a solid design. It even feels sort of like a Lorwyn-block card.
My concerns being that its a six mana commander that looks like you need to funnel mana into everything the deck would do. It would be fun to juggle some Sakura-Tribe Elder with some other ETB / Dies creatures but I also think that it would take a lot of time to spin this sort of thing up. I think it likely would turn into some sort of Wood Elves / Solemn Simulacrum.deck but that still sounds REAL slow lol.
I don't think I would personally play it as a commander. As you said, it is too high-costed for that. I would be more likely to run it in the 99 of something like my Anafenza deck, where it would serve as another way to recover from a wrath (mine or someone else's). Along the way it could provide some incidental value as some creature dies in combat or to sacrifice and I get back to hand some lower-toughness value creature like Wood Elves or Eternal Witness or Blood Artist. The CMC is still a sticking point, but I think the potential value might justify it.

Of course, if someone was going to run it as a general, it being in green makes the CMC somewhat less prohibitive.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 5 months ago

Colfenor is a bit dull, but at this point I think the same of any GBx recursion commander. Powerwise, he's outshone by Karador, Neheb and probably even Nethroi. I also don't think that's his point. Somewhere, someone is chuckling at the thought of getting back Sapling of Colfenor with his death trigger and chuckling. That is his point.

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Post by WizardMN » 5 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
5 months ago
@WizardMN you'll know this one.

With Colfenor, the Last Yew if I cast Endless One and Phyrexian Marauder for one mana and sacrifice to Ashnod's Altar will I be able to get the other back from graveyard, as I assume the toughness is determined to what it was at when it actually died, rather than the stats on the card?
That is correct. The toughness is of the creature that died so the stats of the creature as it last existed on the field are what is used.

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Post by able archer » 5 months ago

Dragoon wrote:
5 months ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
5 months ago
BeneTleilax wrote:
5 months ago
I'd like a proper Abzan lifegain or enchantress general, but I'm pretty happy with it so far. There's a couple cards I want to pick up for my decks, a couple long-needed reprints, and it looks fun to draft. That's a win in my book.
I did a Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper creatures deck a few years back that was really good at lifegain. It wasn't dedicated lifegain only but it was really good at it. I ended up running Karlov of the Ghost Council in the 99 as an indication of how good it was at gaining life. I came at it with sort of a "low curve" concept with both partners acting like anthems of sort. One drawing cards and the other giving life.

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the ... junk-beats

In case you wanted to see an example decklist. Its a few years out of date but it was a very solid deck.
Seconded! I've also built this kind of deck a few years back. I was a bit tired of playing defensive lifegain and I've built it in such a way that all the lifegain cards only triggered when attacking or blocking. It was really fun and a nice change of pace from the usual lifegain / pillowfort stuff. Mine was more of a midrange kind of deck though, using creatures such as Archangel of Thune, Baneslayer Angel and Wurmcoil Engine.
To add my thoughts, I think Prava of the Steel Legion // Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper tokens/buttlink deck would be fun. With both out, a single 1/1 Spirit presents a 7 point swing. Throw in some lifegain payoffs like Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose, some toughness-matters support (ex. Huatli, the Sun's Heart) and you got a stew brewing.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 5 months ago

Jeweled Lotus.
Well %$#%. So much for this set having a minimum of irksome staples.

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Post by Toshi » 5 months ago

Jeweled Lotus is propably the most stupid idea they ever had for a printed for Commander card. And they had plenty.

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Post by tstorm823 » 5 months ago

Well, I've said on many occasions that in the context of a normal game of commander, Sol Ring is more broken than Black Lotus would ever be (obviously the same doesn't apply to competitive play), It seems we now get to test the theory.
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