Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 7 months ago

Opposition Agent is awesome, and I'm going to try shoving it into as many decks as possible... which virtually guarantees it will end up a $20+ card. Ah, well.... It heavily reminds me of Notion Thief, so it will probably drop in price eventually. Hard to say whether shutting down card draw is more powerful than shutting down a tutor... but stealing a key tutor is pretty huge, and possibly more common than stealing a big card draw spell. How many more times does Demonic Tutor show up than Blue Sun's Zenith? Shutting down land-based ramp is also quite nice, and not something black otherwise has much access to.

....also very interesting alongside Field of Ruin and Maralen of the Mornsong. I can't think of that many forced search effects, but it is amusing to contemplate alongside Wave of Vitriol. Possibly even more backbreaking than Notion Thief + Windfall, but it's sort of a toss-up.

Profane Transfusion is fine, but sort of underwhelming in comparison to the other cards in the cycle we've seen. Good for K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth and Selenia, Dark Angel at least.
tstorm823 wrote:
7 months ago
Anybody got a ruling on what happens if I have like six of these sphinges? Do I get a bunch of consecutive beginning phases? I see no reason why not, just want to double check.
They stack, yes. You'll go main phase → untap / upkeep / draw → untap / upkeep / draw → ... etc.

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not-a-cube
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Post by not-a-cube » 7 months ago

tstorm823 wrote:
7 months ago
Serenade wrote:
7 months ago
I'm just glad the sphinx is not a legend.
Anybody got a ruling on what happens if I have like six of these sphinges? Do I get a bunch of consecutive beginning phases? I see no reason why not, just want to double check.
I think they stack, you get 6 triggers at the beginning of your post combat main fase which resolve one by one at the end, so save up those instants to play in between?

Opposition Agent seems very nice, and turns Wishclaw Talisman into sort of a bribery.

* Now that I think about it, if you come to an agreement that your opponentn returns the wishclaw to you after using it, it becomes bribery + tutor for you =). To bad it doesn't target a player to give it too, so after you screw them over they'll probably not return it to you.
Last edited by not-a-cube 7 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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tstorm823
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Post by tstorm823 » 7 months ago

not-a-cube wrote:
7 months ago
I think they stack, you get 6 triggers at the beginning of your post combat main phase which resolve one by one at the end, so save up those instants to play in between?
I was more imagining something like Font of Mythos in action. Untap my lands, draw 3 cards, untap my lands, draw 3 cards, untap my lands, draw 3 cards...
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not-a-cube
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Post by not-a-cube » 7 months ago

tstorm823 wrote:
7 months ago
not-a-cube wrote:
7 months ago
I think they stack, you get 6 triggers at the beginning of your post combat main phase which resolve one by one at the end, so save up those instants to play in between?
I was more imagining something like Font of Mythos in action.
Sure but you also get those untaps, so why not shoot every instant in between =)
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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 7 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
7 months ago
Wow Opposition Agent is crazy good. A black hate-bear of the highest impact for Commander. Kind of speechless really.
Legacy/Vintage level even?

Unlike many cards that steal, the Agent let you play lands too.

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ZenN
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Post by ZenN » 7 months ago

Opposition Agent is a stupid, stupid card. Should cost 6, or have a harder cost like BBB and be a 2/1 or something.

I'm already seeing a ton of people advocating for this card to be prebanned, and I understand why. Casual people are going to rage quit every game where someone drops this thing in response to their Cultivate or something, and this card is going be an absolute staple in cEDH.

Not to mention that the price tag is going to be very high on it, because this thing is going to definitely see play in Legacy and Vintage, too.
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Post by pokken » 7 months ago

ZenN wrote:
7 months ago
Not to mention that the price tag is going to be very high on it, because this thing is going to definitely see play in Legacy and Vintage, too.
I think the rares in this set are gonna be cheaper than people think due to the collector boosters. Thankfully it's not a mythic it doesn't look like.

I honestly don't know what they're thinking printing this level of search hate though. It's going to be notion thief level of awful in higher power EDH I am sure.

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

Mookie wrote:
7 months ago
Phyrexian Triniform is... a very large slab of beef. I'm going to say that I prefer Ancient Stone Idol - trample and flash are both pretty relevant for a giant beater - but Triniform has enough raw stats to start entering 'big enough to consider running despite a lack of evasion or protection' territory. Encore-ing for 9x tokens is a lot too.
I am looking forwad to running this guy in Brudiclad. Everything about him should be pretty good there.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
7 months ago
Wow Opposition Agent is crazy good. A black hate-bear of the highest impact for Commander. Kind of speechless really.
This card makes Scheming Symmetry so, so much better. Beyond that, it is going to do insane things in tutor-heavy metagames.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

I think people are way overrating opposition agent. Sure, it's a good card, but search is a lot less common than draw, and we all live with notion thief for one more mana. One person gets blown out, and then everyone else stops playing draw (/tutor) effects until it gets killed. A strong effect but not broken imo.

Kodama of the east tree is the one design I really don't like so far. Everything else looks fun. That card looks....ugh. Oppressive. And partner too, wtf were they thinking...

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
Kodama of the east tree is the one design I really don't like so far. Everything else looks fun. That card looks....ugh. Oppressive. And partner too, wtf were they thinking...
I suspect they were thinking they have to allow for some super-broken UG partner combos because Simic.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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JWK
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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

Breeches, Brazen Plunderer is the first card ever that makes me consider making a pirate deck.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 7 months ago

Opposition Agent is going to be a pain to handle in a webcam game. I'm not looking forward to that. However, I do appreciate hating on searching. I intentionally minimize or exclude search and shuffle effects in some of casual decks because of how much time shuffling takes. Perhaps more people will take this approach now.

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Post by Guardman » 7 months ago

JWK wrote:
7 months ago
Breeches, Brazen Plunderer is the first card ever that makes me consider making a pirate deck.
The best part is he doesn't even need a pirate deck to do work (though Lightning-Rig Crew does do work with him). I'm already trying to figure out where I should throw him into my Etali, Primal Storm deck. Or, if I should just make a deck with him as one of the commanders (though out of all the partners so far, ironically the best one might be Alena, Kessig Trapper since she can make a lot of mana). Might end up doing both... If I ever get a chance to play in paper ever again.

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Post by ZenN » 7 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
Kodama of the east tree is the one design I really don't like so far. Everything else looks fun. That card looks....ugh. Oppressive. And partner too, wtf were they thinking...
If that translation is right, it goes infinite with any bounce land + any landfall token maker, right? That's interesting.
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Post by darrenhabib » 7 months ago

ZenN wrote:
7 months ago
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
Kodama of the east tree is the one design I really don't like so far. Everything else looks fun. That card looks....ugh. Oppressive. And partner too, wtf were they thinking...
If that translation is right, it goes infinite with any bounce land + any landfall token maker, right? That's interesting.
It does say "if it wasn't put onto the battlefield with this ability" so no.

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Post by Guardman » 7 months ago

Never mind with Alena, Kessig Trapper as Breeches, Brazen Plunderer partner. Malcolm Keen-Eyed Navigator just got spoiled and he is tailor made to make sure Breeches can cast everything he steals. The only question is do I want chaos or a more pirate themed deck.

Also good to note is that Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator goes infinite with Glint-Horn Buccaneer as long as you have two or more opponents (and don't deck yourself).

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Post by darrenhabib » 7 months ago

Guardman wrote:
7 months ago
Never mind with Alena, Kessig Trapper as Breeches, Brazen Plunderer partner. Malcolm Keen-Eyed Navigator just got spoiled and he is tailor made to make sure Breeches can cast everything he steals. The only question is do I want chaos or a more pirate themed deck.

Also good to note is that Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator goes infinite with Glint-Horn Buccaneer as long as you have two or more opponents (and don't deck yourself).
That Malcolm Keen-Eyed Navigator + Glint-Horn Buccaneer combo is amazing really. Kind of makes me want to build a pirate deck for the first time as well.

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Post by ZenN » 7 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
7 months ago
It does say "if it wasn't put onto the battlefield with this ability" so no.
That doesn't matter.

1) Play bounce land, return itself, Landfall token maker triggers
2) Token maker resolves, token enters, triggering Kodama of the East Tree
3) Kodama resolves, putting bounce land back into play, returning itself and triggering token maker again
5) Repeat
Last edited by ZenN 7 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wallycaine » 7 months ago

darrenhabib wrote:
7 months ago
ZenN wrote:
7 months ago
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
Kodama of the east tree is the one design I really don't like so far. Everything else looks fun. That card looks....ugh. Oppressive. And partner too, wtf were they thinking...
If that translation is right, it goes infinite with any bounce land + any landfall token maker, right? That's interesting.
It does say "if it wasn't put onto the battlefield with this ability" so no.
The combo being suggested is with something like Rampaging Baloths + Gruul Turf. When you put Gruul Turf into play off Kodama's ability, Rampaging Baloths and the Turf itself trigger. You return Turf to your hand first, then put a token into play, which triggers Kodama, since it wasn't put onto the battlefield with its ability. You can then put the Turf into play, restarting the process from the top. Infinite baloths, and with Amulet of Vigor, infinite mana as well.

That said, we're working off a translation, so it's quite possible there's a "nontoken" or "nonland" clause missing that might mess up the whole thing.

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Post by ZenN » 7 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
7 months ago
That said, we're working off a translation, so it's quite possible there's a "nontoken" or "nonland" clause missing that might mess up the whole thing.
Those, or it could be "less than" instead of "less than or equal".
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Post by Wallycaine » 7 months ago

ZenN wrote:
7 months ago
Wallycaine wrote:
7 months ago
That said, we're working off a translation, so it's quite possible there's a "nontoken" or "nonland" clause missing that might mess up the whole thing.
Those, or it could be "less than" instead of "less than or equal".
Ooh, that would make a lot of sense. Especially since that keeps it from going "Oh, in addition to everything else this does, it lets you do a land drop every time you ramp." Yeah, that seems easy to miss in translation and potientially curbs the power a bit.

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Post by toctheyounger » 7 months ago

JWK wrote:
7 months ago
I suspect they were thinking they have to allow for some super-broken UG partner combos because Simic.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Simic is the worst. I just don't get why they keep helping that combination out so much, it needs absolutely no further assistance.
DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
I think people are way overrating opposition agent. Sure, it's a good card, but search is a lot less common than draw, and we all live with notion thief for one more mana. One person gets blown out, and then everyone else stops playing draw (/tutor) effects until it gets killed. A strong effect but not broken imo.
Agreed. It's very good obviously, but less in the context of getting everyone's tutored stuff (because if you're casting Vampiric Tutor wth this on the field you might be mentally deficient) and more in the context of just regulating the tempo of a game and making your table work for its wins. Which I'm totally ok with, personally. Likewise with fetches and such, in a way it makes more financially expensive decks contend a little better with decks on a budget. Maybe it's a little griefy being able to steal people's lands and spells, but I'm alright with it. It's not like the guy casting a hard tutor was going to do something fair or even handed with that card they tutored for, so hey - they can't all be zingers, man.

Sure there's the feel bad of ramp getting nerfed, but honestly, if that's the best you're getting out of Opposition Agent you're probably not using it right either. I think in most scenarios this will get used once for a hard tutor and get nuked almost immediately following, so most cases it'll give you one shot at value. In legacy and vintage it'll be a lot more gross probably, but it's not worth the sweat people seem to be shedding on it in a multiplayer format.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 7 months ago

Ramp and fetchlands should not be sacred cows, so incidentally hosing them is all good in my book. Ramp has gotten bloated with power in casual and 75%, we need to stop treating it like it's just Timmy casting Rampant Growth to fix his mana. We have a panoply of answers to mana rocks, and if the last few years have shown us anything, it's that green needs no special protections.
Fetchlands have become almost mandatory, and have played a significant role in this format's explosive price creep. If folks had to consider tradeoffs, even slightly when slotting them in over other fixing, it would be a benefit.

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Post by ZenN » 7 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
7 months ago
Agreed. It's very good obviously, but less in the context of getting everyone's tutored stuff (because if you're casting Vampiric Tutor wth this on the field you might be mentally deficient) and more in the context of just regulating the tempo of a game and making your table work for its wins. Which I'm totally ok with, personally. Likewise with fetches and such, in a way it makes more financially expensive decks contend a little better with decks on a budget. Maybe it's a little griefy being able to steal people's lands and spells, but I'm alright with it. It's not like the guy casting a hard tutor was going to do something fair or even handed with that card they tutored for, so hey - they can't all be zingers, man.

Sure there's the feel bad of ramp getting nerfed, but honestly, if that's the best you're getting out of Opposition Agent you're probably not using it right either. I think in most scenarios this will get used once for a hard tutor and get nuked almost immediately following, so most cases it'll give you one shot at value. In legacy and vintage it'll be a lot more gross probably, but it's not worth the sweat people seem to be shedding on it in a multiplayer format.
I understand the people who are concerned with the existence of this card. There will be games when someone plays it on turn 1 or 2 and just takes over a game unless someone is immediately holding 1 or 2 mana removal, and doesn't need to fetch to cast it.

The third most played card of all time on EDHRec is Cultivate, in almost half of all decks. Green land tutors are one of the primary ways that very casual/low budget players account for a poor mana base. People are going to get very, very upset at this card.
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