Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Hawk
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Post by Hawk » 6 months ago

Yeah I think folks are underestimating Negan, the Cold-blooded a bit the more I think about it. He is limited to Mardu decks only, but in those decks he's basically a Ravenous Chupacabra with some upside. He immediately refunds at least one mana and sometimes you win the mindgame and he ends up being a 2-for-1 and getting you two treasures. He also brings you a pile of treasure every time you cast a spell like Crackling Doom or Innocent Blood nevermind if an opponent is doing Aristocrat-y tricks. As the head of the 99 there's all sorts of interesting stuff you can do with looping sacrifice effects or bringing extra treasures out of him with Anointed Procession.

If he wasn't in this gods-awful Secret Lair Drop, I suspect he'd have a reasonable shot of being in the top 5 Mardu Commanders (in 5th place, mind - dude's got nothing on Eddy Markov, Kaalia 1.0, Queen Marchesa, or Alesha), and he's only not a lock into the 99 of those decks due to the fairly linear nature of all of them except Marchesa (he isn't a Vampire, Angel, Demon, Dragon, or creature with power 2 or less).

All of this makes me A) Sad I won't own one on principal and B) more filled with spite and hatred that I already was.

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Post by Wallycaine » 6 months ago

UnfulfilledDesires wrote:
6 months ago
It's vexing that WotC literally already did what the needed to do with these to assure community acceptance, but chose not to bother here. If they'd given these the Zilortha, Strength Incarnate treatment, folks wouldn't be nearly as upset.

I know nothing about The Walking Dead, so these characters are all new to me. Negan, the Cold-Blooded would be pretty solid for my Saskia legendary-matters deck. It's a super Nekrataal for five, essentially, which ain't bad. I might buy the drop and use a rethemed proxy, which folks have already made.
The issue with putting Zilortha, Strength Incarnate type namelines on the cards is it creates the expectation (like with Zilortha) that those "normal" versions are going to be printed. If there's little demand for a normal Michonne, Ruthless Survivor, then they don't want to be locked into "promising" that such a card will be printed. The technology works equally well in reverse, anyways, and gives them more freedom. If 3 years from now they're doing a Tarkir 2, and decide that Neegan's abilities are perfect for X legend they wanna print, they can always just put (Neegan, the Cold Blooded) as a subscript on the card, just like they did with the Godzilla ones. But if they had to create the "normal" names today, they almost certainly wouldn't be able to make that sorta called shot successfully.

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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 6 months ago

The problem with doing it in verse is that then they can't ever print a version that purely in-universe. With these, the official names are tied to The Walking Dead.

Regardless, they are still Magic cards and can be examined as such. Daryl, Hunter of Walkers (link) is rather unusual as a Gruul commander. Daryl facilitates a Repercussion strategy by giving your opponents creatures. That mechanic also goes well with the cards like Defense of the Heart and, if you like living dangerously, Oath of Druids. Aether Flash works if you just want to draw cards. I'm stuck on Rosheen Meanderer so I won't personally try this, but it seems like fun.

Edit: *unusual*
Last edited by UnfulfilledDesires 6 months ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by materpillar » 6 months ago

UnfulfilledDesires wrote:
6 months ago
The problem with doing it in verse is that then they can't ever print a version that purely in-universe. With these, the official names are tied to The Walking Dead.

Regardless, they are still Magic cards and can be examined as such. Daryl, Hunter of Walkers (link) is rather usual as a Gruul commander. Daryl facilitates a Repercussion strategy by giving your opponents creatures. That mechanic also goes well with the cards like Defense of the Heart and, if you like living dangerously, Oath of Druids. Aether Flash works if you just want to draw cards. I'm stuck on Rosheen Meanderer so I won't personally try this, but it seems like fun.
... Daryl is immensely interesting. I really like the design on all of these cards so far.

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Post by able archer » 6 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago
I don't think it's that much of a leap, although to be fair it probably meets ban criteria (at this point in time) on a different axis than Lutri did, that of perceived financial barrier to entry. That doesn't see much use anymore with the RL fixated as it is, and very few cards worth thousands, and while these won't get there, the fact that most of the world will never see them is probably enough to push them over the line. I guess if they're ever reprinted it could change, but things do come off the banlist, so it's not like it's a forever thing.
https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... r-end-ama/

Sheldon stated as late as December of last year that scarcity/price is no longer an argument they use for banning a card. I would be incredibly disappointed if the RC reverses this policy to appease a loud minority.

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Post by UnfulfilledDesires » 6 months ago

Aren't these going to be available at for $50 for the full five, or $10 each? That's expensive but still significantly cheaper than many EDH staples.

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Post by Ginuqu » 6 months ago

I got the impression they'd be available for that price for precisely a day, get scalped and vanish into speculation land
sorta mad at magic right now

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Post by Wallycaine » 6 months ago

Ginuqu wrote:
6 months ago
I got the impression they'd be available for that price for precisely a day, get scalped and vanish into speculation land
They're available for a full week, and they're print to demand. How expensive they end up will naturally depend on demand versus how many people buy them just to sell off for parts, but the market for "scalping" is fairly small, given that players will have a while to decide if they want to buy the box set for 50.

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Post by toctheyounger » 6 months ago

able archer wrote:
6 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago
I don't think it's that much of a leap, although to be fair it probably meets ban criteria (at this point in time) on a different axis than Lutri did, that of perceived financial barrier to entry. That doesn't see much use anymore with the RL fixated as it is, and very few cards worth thousands, and while these won't get there, the fact that most of the world will never see them is probably enough to push them over the line. I guess if they're ever reprinted it could change, but things do come off the banlist, so it's not like it's a forever thing.
https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... r-end-ama/

Sheldon stated as late as December of last year that scarcity/price is no longer an argument they use for banning a card. I would be incredibly disappointed if the RC reverses this policy to appease a loud minority.
I'm aware of this, but this is less about pricing and more about the fact that, even if I wanted them (which I don't), because I live in New Zealand I simply cannot own them, no matter how much I wish to. I really only brought up the PFBTE as a comparable reason they ought to be banned.

Honestly, if these were format staples I'd be incredibly pissed. As it is I don't overly care, other than for the precedent it sets if they do remain legal.
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Post by tstorm823 » 6 months ago

UnfulfilledDesires wrote:
6 months ago
Regardless, they are still Magic cards and can be examined as such. Daryl, Hunter of Walkers (link) is rather unusual as a Gruul commander. Daryl facilitates a Repercussion strategy by giving your opponents creatures. That mechanic also goes well with the cards like Defense of the Heart and, if you like living dangerously, Oath of Druids. Aether Flash works if you just want to draw cards. I'm stuck on Rosheen Meanderer so I won't personally try this, but it seems like fun.

Edit: *unusual*
If Daryl fit in a mardu deck, I'd have to get a copy for my mardu deck that gives people creatures. That being said, he isn't, so I won't.
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Post by Hawk » 6 months ago

Dang it Daryl is actually really interesting. Aether Flash makes him a super-duper draw engine, but he's also just fascinating as a political commander.

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Post by Hermes_ » 6 months ago

I like the art on the walker token
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Post by ilovesaprolings » 6 months ago

materpillar wrote:
6 months ago
... Daryl is immensely interesting. I really like the design on all of these cards so far.
They wasted more time ideating these 5 cards than balancing the standard :laugh:

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Post by RxPhantom » 6 months ago

There's so much confusion about these Walker tokens. They're 2/2 zombie tokens that say 'Walker' at the top. Simple.

These can die in a fire though.
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Post by DirkGently » 6 months ago

able archer wrote:
6 months ago
https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... r-end-ama/

Sheldon stated as late as December of last year that scarcity/price is no longer an argument they use for banning a card. I would be incredibly disappointed if the RC reverses this policy to appease a loud minority.
I don't think that criteria does match - for one, no matter how few people buy these, they'll still be pennies compared to cards banned for that reason - the P9, mostly. That said I think they should ban them under a new criteria - to protect the playerbase from becoming a piggy bank for wotc.

I don't think it's just a loud minority. Every poll - which fans of the product could easily anonymously vote on - have overwhelmingly been negative. Of course it's hard to say what the large silent majority of casual players think, but I think the more likely scenario is that a very small minority of players approve and are actually interested - but at $50 a pop for a small number of cards, wotc will still be making money handily on this.

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Post by Yatsufusa » 6 months ago

I've never watched The Walking Dead and nor am I familiar with the acting circle either, but with the reveal of Daryl and me being slightly more familiar with Norman Reedus than the rest of the actors/actresses, I think I can state this, even if it's 1/5 of the cards - the most unnerving thing of this is that the cards feel more like celebrity vanity cards than anything else, for anyone not knowledgeable in the franchise.

Sure mechanically I trust they do more or less represent the character acted out (and obviously don't represent the actor/actress), but if I don't know that all I see is the art likeness of the actor/actress and that resonates with the card's "identity" more because I simply don't know the base material to associate the ability to. I daresay it has a similar impact on anyone who isn't in the series but familiar with the acting circle.

Another implication is now black border rules now refer to these cards by the characters' names, which to some degree means they're canon to the game, but the lore is now in a conundrum of whether they will be in the lore (confusingly) or there are characters canon to the game/rules but not in the lore. Silver-bordered lore is accepted like their rules to be essentially separate, but these are not. Remember, planeswalkers, plainswalkers and walkers are very different things now.
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Post by kraus911 » 6 months ago

I just wish Daryl, Hunter of Walkers did 2 damage to Planeswalkers as well as creatures because, well because.

I'm kind of *shrug* about the way this is being done. It's $10 more than a precon to get all the cards if you want to play with them. There's a surplus of EDH riches in our game at this point in the format. You can get in pretty cheap, and there are sought after cards most of us who don't already have them can never justify paying for. In terms of Wizards supporting the spirit of the format, reprinting key cards like Rift and Teferi's Protection that basically cost as much as the Secret Lair is a higher priority than kibitzing over this product.

The TWD cards seem fun but not format defining, and they're going to sell a butt load of them.

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Post by JWK » 6 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
6 months ago
able archer wrote:
6 months ago
https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... r-end-ama/

Sheldon stated as late as December of last year that scarcity/price is no longer an argument they use for banning a card. I would be incredibly disappointed if the RC reverses this policy to appease a loud minority.
I don't think that criteria does match - for one, no matter how few people buy these, they'll still be pennies compared to cards banned for that reason - the P9, mostly. That said I think they should ban them under a new criteria - to protect the playerbase from becoming a piggy bank for wotc.
This. These should be banned in commander to protect the format from pay-to-play/pay-to-win cash grabs.

I would give zero %$#% if these cards were silver bordered or if they were variants of another card that was already printed or about to be printed (in, say, Commander Legends). They'd just be a novelty with no significant impact then. But that isn't what's going on here. This is everything wrong with unique-card buy-a-box promos, but hugely magnified in terms of available numbers and tossing in the fact that these are not purchasable at all by people in many parts of the world.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
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Post by Serenade » 6 months ago

[fresh off one successful game with Charix, the Raging Isle]

Wow, I do like that draw ability on Glenn. Hope we see more of it!
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Post by Wallycaine » 6 months ago

Serenade wrote:
6 months ago
[fresh off one successful game with Charix, the Raging Isle]

Wow, I do like that draw ability on Glenn. Hope we see more of it!
Yeah, it's a weird templating. It's... mostly the same as Cold-Eyed Selkie and friends, but with some weird differences. It's not a significantly different length (I think it's marginally longer, but only by a handful of characters), so if it's something they're moving to going forward, my best guess is that they felt it was simpler?

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Post by Serenade » 6 months ago

Any trampler will love it!
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Post by Dunharrow » 6 months ago

Daryl has nothing green about him. Should have been golgari. Black is the only color that draws cards for killing opponents' creatures.
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Post by tstorm823 » 6 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
6 months ago
Daryl has nothing green about him. Should have been golgari. Black is the only color that draws cards for killing opponents' creatures.
Do you mean Rakdos?
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Post by onering » 6 months ago

Dunharrow wrote:
6 months ago
Daryl has nothing green about him. Should have been golgari. Black is the only color that draws cards for killing opponents' creatures.
I see it as going for top down flavor and using the old school hoser exception. He's an RG character, and he hoses zombie decks, which is G. Giving out tokens to opponents is also G. He feels like a Legends legend.

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Post by Cyberium » 6 months ago

JWK wrote:
6 months ago
DirkGently wrote:
6 months ago
able archer wrote:
6 months ago
https://articles.starcitygames.com/prem ... r-end-ama/

Sheldon stated as late as December of last year that scarcity/price is no longer an argument they use for banning a card. I would be incredibly disappointed if the RC reverses this policy to appease a loud minority.
I don't think that criteria does match - for one, no matter how few people buy these, they'll still be pennies compared to cards banned for that reason - the P9, mostly. That said I think they should ban them under a new criteria - to protect the playerbase from becoming a piggy bank for wotc.
This. These should be banned in commander to protect the format from pay-to-play/pay-to-win cash grabs. ailable numbers and tossing in the fact that these are not purchasable at all by people in many parts of the world.
Ban the dual lands and all the expensive lands/rocks while we're at it, so people could stop worrying about not having the money for those broken cards.

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