Unreleased and New Card Discussion

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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 7 months ago

Closing out the spoiler season...

Myriad Construct is a potentially massive beater. I could easily see it reaching 20/20 or bigger when kicked, and exploding into a pile of 1/1 tokens when targeted isn't bad either, assuming you can make use of the tokens.

Verazol, the Split Current is a sweet kicker commander that also happens to effectively ignore commander tax. Speaking more broadly, 'copying a permanent spell creates a token copy of that object' is a very interesting rules change. I don't think that there currently exist any cards capable of copying a permanent spell (only instants/sorceries), but it opens up some interesting possibilities. I assume there are some nasty old permanent spells to copy with Verazol.

Tuktuk Rubblefort is a very sweet common Fervor.

Relic Amulet is mildly interesting as a repeatable source of removal for spellslinger (or wizard tribal) decks.

Charix, the Raging Isle is the first legendary crab. It's ultimately just a massive beater / blocker, but still sweet.

As for the commander decks... I've been contemplating building a landfall deck for a while (helmed by Tayam, Luminous Enigma), and the landfall precon looks to contain a substantial percentage of the cards I was planning to pick up for it. Looks quite solid overall. Rogue decklist also looks fun.

Trove Warden triggering on death instead of leaving the battlefield slightly bugs me, but I still want several copies of it - 'landfall: Sun Titan' seems pretty good.

Geode Rager is a repeatable source of goad, which seems very nasty. 6 mana, but definitely capable of dominating combat steps.

I'm not quite as sold on Enigma Thief or Whispersteel Dagger. The latter is potentially interesting, but paying mana to cast spells is soooo 2018.

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Post by Serenade » 7 months ago

Charix, the Raging Isle plays better with Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive than Anowon, the Ruin Thief does!

I also like the idea of Charix using a Skeleton Key.
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Post by toctheyounger » 7 months ago

Personally, I'm just disappointed Charix, the Raging Isle is not a homarid. I was looking forward to Fallen Empires tribal.




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Stapler
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Post by Stapler » 7 months ago

I was just thinking I was going to get away with not building with any commanders from this set - I contemplated Akiri, Fearless Voyager for a bit before deciding I wasn't completely happy with the Equipment selection and would wait for Kaldheim to give us Mjölnir or whatever - but then Verazol, the Split Current blindsided me right at the end of spoiler season.

Copying permanents spells is super cool and unique, making niche underappreciated kicker spells like Primal Growth and Rushing River into powerhouses is sweet and is half the reason I play EDH, and putting the Gyrus, Waker of Corpses mechanic on more cards is something I hope they continue to do. Verazol is secretly a 2-mana commander despite having X in the cost and I am all for it.

The fact that the deck gets to run somewhat medium but nontheless functional card draw and ramp effects like Field Research and Vastwood Surge, and in the lategame uses Verazol to turn them into a full hand refill or a Decree of Savagery stapled to a pile of Rampant Growths means that there's more room in the deck to experiment and build it however you want. There's about 20 solid-to-excellent Kicker cards in Simic, and I don't think you need any more than that to make Verazol pop off, so despite looking like your typical "legendary that uses the set mechanic in an unimpressive way" or "commander that turns bad cards into ridiculous value engines", I think Verazol has legs.

... okay fine, as a Serpent she doesn't actually have any, but ...

The only thing I'm disappointed by is the person who translated Verazol on reddit called her "Verazol, the Forking Stream", which is a way more awesome-sounding title than "the Split Current", especially since "Forking" seemed like a subtle reference to how Verazol is essentially Forking the kicker spells you cast, but ah well.
Hawk wrote:
7 months ago
I salivate at the thought of tossing a Twinning Staff in there - you end up with three Stormcallers and then get seven copies of your spell!
Assuming Sea Gate Stormcaller functions the same as Doublecast in that it sets up a delayed triggered ability that triggers when you cast the spell, wouldn't all 3 of the the Stormcallers create their own individual copy trigger, resulting in 9 total copies plus the original? i.e. Casting a Rampant Growth would create three Stormcaller triggers, each trigger putting two additional copies on the stack with Twinning Staff adding a third copy, 3x3=9 Rampant Growths plus the original.
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Post by Cyberium » 7 months ago

Stapler wrote:
7 months ago
I was just thinking I was going to get away with not building with any commanders from this set - I contemplated Akiri, Fearless Voyager for a bit before deciding I wasn't completely happy with the Equipment selection and would wait for Kaldheim to give us Mjölnir or whatever -
Sunforger?

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Post by Stapler » 7 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
7 months ago
Stapler wrote:
7 months ago
I was just thinking I was going to get away with not building with any commanders from this set - I contemplated Akiri, Fearless Voyager for a bit before deciding I wasn't completely happy with the Equipment selection and would wait for Kaldheim to give us Mjölnir or whatever -
Sunforger?
Is that what that's based on? I never realized. They'll definitely make a new version in a Norse-themed set though.

I also think it's likely they'll have DFCs with creatures on one side and Equipment on the other, which helps with the problem of having equipment but having nothing to equip it to, so I'd like to see what they print before I commit to a build.
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Post by Yatsufusa » 7 months ago

I'll be honest - Zendikar Rising doesn't seem particularly fantastic for my suite of decks. In fact the set feels a tad bland overall by itself.
Party is going to be pretty much an insufficiently-supported "tribe of four" that's mostly not going to work in the format (although I think they knew this when they designed it, it wasn't for the format to begin with). Even in Changelings, the payoffs feel pretty meh.
Landfall and Kicker are generally good mechanics, but once you take out the typical Limited chaff around them, there aren't too many significant standouts compared to the past. Granted, it's a natural decay of interest since these are all returning mechanics, but when both are slapped together with something like Party, the set does feel "lacking" in a way.
To be fair to both sides, my decks are streamlined over the years, so what catches my eyes will be few, what actually has a chance of making in is fewer and they're mostly going to be (Mythic) Rares. So without ado, my personal opinion on some cards in the set:

Eye-Catching but not (a priority) for me

Angel of Destiny - 2 power means it's Alesha-applicable and it does have evasion. Ultimately though it feels like a Master of Cruelties with many more hoops to jump through.

Attended Healer – If you have ways to gain life every turn, this card is actually pretty potent and a token a turn is very good value, be it as a blocker or sacrifice fodder. Not going out of the way to make that value myself, but there are definitely decks out there that this is at least worth an immediate try.

Felidar RetreatField of the Fair I suppose (even if Field itself is manageable in the format). I might need to find wriggle space for this though, being generic good doesn't cut it too well in synergy if the only synergy is many land drops in Horde lands.dec

Feed the Swarm – Not for me since I don't have a Mono-Black deck, but for them direct enchantment removal is direct enchantment removal. Even in multicolored it's pretty well-costed, just not optimal, but a respectable choice for new players who might not have access to many cards.

Cleansing Wildfire – Every deck should always run spot removal for problematic lands. Like the Feed the Swam, this is a respectable choice for newer players. Even for older players, it's a pretty acceptable choice considering there are fewer efficient choices, but for those with access I'd personally still prefer one tacked with other utility that isn't just replacing itself because problematic lands don't always show up either.

Ashaya, Soul of the Wild – I do run Planar Outburst in Horde and this does protect against other nonland wipes, but at the same time I have reservations of otherwise playing a beatstick that is situational. I don't really gain a lot turning creatures into dorks because Horde's creatures are on the bulkier side and this sort of encroaches of the already tight bulky space.

Omnath, Locus of Creation – I want to like 4C Omnath, but he feels even less impactful than 3C Omnath (although in fairness I do run Horde with some Elementals as well)… and I didn't play 3C but stuck with 2C Omnath because that was the big explosive Omnath that reviving with 5 mana was more value/fun (also because I never found a 3C Omnath yet, I actually oughta try that one).

Phylath, World Sculptor – Bootleg Avenger of Zendikar is bootleg. Checking only basics pretty much cripples it for Horde or Animar to even consider.

Verazol, the Split Current – Legendary serpent always catches my attention, but with no kicker in Animar, it's just a beatstick. I love its design though, but not enough to divert my currents around it (Yorion already met my Serpent wants with minimal disruption).

Myriad Construct – Honorable mention because if I shoved Verazol this naturally goes into Animar for wackiness (0 mana for 2 extra-large beatsticks that split into a wide-field), but two cards that result in only beatsticks don't make the cut no more nowadays, but it was fun thinking about it.

Lithoform Engine – Fun on paper, flexible in theory, but I doubt really functional in practice for me because it does demand resources.

Pathways – I run fetch-shock-check-filters for all my 3C decks (and Horde has its own requirements), so these are unfortunately already optimized out for me (yes, they're "better" than check-filters if I screw, but generally way more rigid later on). In 2C though, its rigidness later-game matters way less though, so I'll get a couple for my 2C decks only. All being said though it's a pretty swell choice for newer players (even in 3C) because it does teach the value of untapped dual lands, even if its flexibity as a dual is sorta half-baked.

Likely going to get one

Skyclave Apparition – It's fantastic removal recurrable by Alesha. Creatures are easy to remove, other card types less so and this takes care of it. Likely going swap out Duplicant for this, especially when it's much easier to just cast by itself.

Thieving Skydiver – I think this one's obvious, the great mana rocks are have low costs. In Animar since cost reduction affects kicker, this can also potentially steal the big artifacts as well for 1 mana later in the game. Fantastic any stage of the game in the deck, I'd say.

Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire – I'm tempted to risk turning one of my swamps into a CIPT land in Grimgrin so that I have a bonus flexible card that can re-trigger Grave Titan and reset a clone-copy since that deck easily sacrifices-on-demand. It's not worth a non-land slot due to its situational status, but risking a swamp CIPT instead might be worth it.

Leyline Tyrant – I run both Nehebs (and Treasonous Ogre) in Ryusei and this is mighty tempting. Being a typical flying dragon keeps it protected from the Commander and even without combos, it allows to float any red mana, so it's useful for stockpiling for bigger/X-spells even on its own. I also do feel that it's not going to perform as spectacularly as I would like it to because it's visible and vulnerable, but it does at least cover for itself if it dies, so I guess it's the borderline where I'm willing to give it a try.

Nahiri's Lithoforming – It carries the risk of not replenishing lands (which I must sacrifice all of if X is larger than the total number of lands I have) for the big plays, but if I can also run this at smaller amounts while I already have lands in hand for a self-wheel of sorts. Like Tyrant, this gets a trial run over Commune with Lava because they sort of occupy the same space of risk-draw although their risks are different.

Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge – I don't even need the land half, this is custom wheeling/sculpting less risky than Lithoforming (at the cost of no exploding potential). Unlike Malakir Rebirth, this by itself is worthy of a non-land slot (I do want my Mountains for Valakut anyway).

Valakut Exploration – Remember when Outpost Siege was pretty much one of the few "draw" engine choices we had? This demands timely land-drops to function (and has potential to explode in some decks, not mine) but in return it has the courtesy to send unplayed cards to the graveyard with a serving of damage and for 1 mana cheaper to boot. Like Lithoforming, it carries a different type of risk (do-nothing when mana screwed) compared to Outpost, but worth a trial try. Man, all these red cards are all risk trial runs replacing other cards that have their own risks (although I might run both in this case, because draw engines are better than single-cast draws).

Ancient Greenwarden – Time to wave goodbye to Muldrotha in Horde I guess. I never really got the chance to utilize Muldrotha's full potential, because I mainly put it as a bulkier Ramunap Excavator that the Commander can bring back rather than a combo engine of any kind. This provides a better bonus for landfall triggers, even if it's mostly Angry Omnath for me, it's still a passive bonus.

Nissa of Shadowed Boughs – Horde is lands.dec, this has potential to enable me to drop one my bulkier creatures (Omnath) in a burst without having to pay mana. Even without burst potential, Nissa can still untap 1 land, so it's a weaker Garruk, although her land-animation is a tier lower than her other versions I run when it comes to protecting her from combat due to EOT, but the burst potential makes up for it.

Forsaken Monument – I need this in creature card-less Freyalise, buffs Eldrazi Spawns/Scions, Myr and Spirit tokens and goes infinite with Basalt Monolith so that Helix Pinnacle can actually become threatening. Bonus points because the deck also runs Eldrazi Monument (so tokens could block and defend my otherwise frail deck/commander).
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Post by BounceBurnBuff » 7 months ago

For me this time around, most of what I'm digging is utility, rather than a new commander or effect to brew around. Luckily a lot of it is at the common or uncommon level.

Feed the Swarm: /// decks rejoice! Your fairly costed removal for that Rest in Peace is finally here without the need to watch your game slip away digging for a 7 mana solution. I need 5 at least.

Cleansing Wildfire: This is the sort of land hate we need to see. Targeted, cheap, and it replaces itself.

Lithoform Blight: Chalk another one up for land hate that replaces itself, worst comes to worst, it colour fixes you in budget decks. My Yarok Constellation deck will be pleased, speaking of...

Confounding Conundrum: Yes, YES, this is what we need to halt the Green menace of casual EDH, I demand more WotC! I will look forward to using this in every Blue deck going forward to knee-cap the "training wheels" of the colour pie that is Green. Yarok especially will love it.

Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire: Greven has a love of effects like Kaya's Ghostform, so I'll likely be swapping a land out for this.

Lithoform Engine: If I am to permit myself one pricey mythic from this set, it will be this nonsense factory. Straight into Vial Smasher/Kraum to either copy spells, copy Smasher triggers, or a Double Vision/Swarm Intelligence.

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Post by Cyberium » 7 months ago

BounceBurnBuff wrote:
7 months ago

Confounding Conundrum: Yes, YES, this is what we need to halt the Green menace of casual EDH, I demand more WotC! I will look forward to using this in every Blue deck going forward to knee-cap the "training wheels" of the colour pie that is Green. Yarok especially will love it.
Halting green menace, via the most powerful color in EDH? Conundrum would only fuel the already dominating blue further, not to mention it also stops white/red from using artifact fetches like Burnished Hart, which W and R require a lot of.

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
7 months ago
Halting green menace, via the most powerful color in EDH? Conundrum would only fuel the already dominating blue further, not to mention it also stops white/red from using artifact fetches like Burnished Hart, which W and R require a lot of.
Worth noting that hart is still ok if you crack it on an enemy turn, it's just that it's a Kodama's Reach instead of a Explosive Vegetation. Also very important for fetches.

But personally I almost never run hart in a RW deck, I'd rather run artifact ramp that's way more efficient and is more likely to synergize with what I'm doing. Hart I mostly play in mono-black where the recursion is more relevant and getting out lots of swamps can fuel mana-doublers.

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Post by Stapler » 7 months ago

DirkGently wrote:
7 months ago
Cyberium wrote:
7 months ago
Halting green menace, via the most powerful color in EDH? Conundrum would only fuel the already dominating blue further, not to mention it also stops white/red from using artifact fetches like Burnished Hart, which W and R require a lot of.
Worth noting that hart is still ok if you crack it on an enemy turn, it's just that it's a Kodama's Reach instead of a Explosive Vegetation. Also very important for fetches.
The card is actually a bit more brutal than you're thinking it is, as if you put multiple lands into the play at the same time, it'll trigger for each land ETBing, not just one of them; see Tunnel Ignus' rulings, which has an ability that's worded identically to Confounding Conundrum's.
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 7 months ago

You can choose to find just one, which gets around that.

I feel that Confounding Conundrum should have been white rather than blue, it strikes me as one of those "fair" cards like Rule of Law that white tends to have in its arsenal.
 
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Post by Wallycaine » 7 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
7 months ago
You can choose to find just one, which gets around that.

I feel that Confounding Conundrum should have been white rather than blue, it strikes me as one of those "fair" cards like Rule of Law that white tends to have in its arsenal.
It's been brought up to Maro before, and the jist is "White doesn't bounce opponent's lands, Blue does". There could be a white version of the effect that sacrifices/destroys, but that would have to be much more expensive and likely wouldn't have accomplished the set design goals they had for this card (being an anti-ramp card that doesn't hose landfall decks as much).

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Post by Cyberium » 7 months ago

Wallycaine wrote:
7 months ago
Rumpy5897 wrote:
7 months ago
You can choose to find just one, which gets around that.

I feel that Confounding Conundrum should have been white rather than blue, it strikes me as one of those "fair" cards like Rule of Law that white tends to have in its arsenal.
It's been brought up to Maro before, and the jist is "White doesn't bounce opponent's lands, Blue does". There could be a white version of the effect that sacrifices/destroys, but that would have to be much more expensive and likely wouldn't have accomplished the set design goals they had for this card (being an anti-ramp card that doesn't hose landfall decks as much).
The problem isn't just white not getting a Conundrum effect. The problem is BLUE getting it. Yes, white had never bounced lands, but neither did blue have any one-sided ramp denial cantrip for 1U in the past, even Overburden was at least symmetrical and goes with blue's "less creature-centric" flavor. Not to mention, many blue centric decks had already splashed green for insane ramping, Conundrum would only end up being one blue deck using it to prevent another blue deck from ramping.

WotC had no reason to create a card like Conundrum for blue, which makes me feel that the only reason they make it "bounce" was because they want to give it to blue. They could've easily made a white card like this:

White Conundrum
1WW
Enchantment
When White Conundrum enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Whenever a land enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, if that player had another land enter the battlefield under their control this turn, that player may pay 1. If the player doesn't, you create a Treasure token. (Honestly? I prefer them sacrifice a land if they can't pay.)

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Post by BounceBurnBuff » 7 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
7 months ago
Halting green menace, via the most powerful color in EDH? Conundrum would only fuel the already dominating blue further, not to mention it also stops white/red from using artifact fetches like Burnished Hart, which W and R require a lot of.
If you aren't in the land of combo, mono Blue isn't anywhere near the strength of Green.

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Post by DirkGently » 7 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
7 months ago
The problem isn't just white not getting a Conundrum effect. The problem is BLUE getting it. Yes, white had never bounced lands, but neither did blue have any one-sided ramp denial cantrip for 1U in the past, even Overburden was at least symmetrical and goes with blue's "less creature-centric" flavor. Not to mention, many blue centric decks had already splashed green for insane ramping, Conundrum would only end up being one blue deck using it to prevent another blue deck from ramping.

WotC had no reason to create a card like Conundrum for blue, which makes me feel that the only reason they make it "bounce" was because they want to give it to blue. They could've easily made a white card like this:

White Conundrum
1WW
Enchantment
When White Conundrum enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Whenever a land enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, if that player had another land enter the battlefield under their control this turn, that player may pay 1. If the player doesn't, you create a Treasure token. (Honestly? I prefer them sacrifice a land if they can't pay.)
Idk, this whole thing seems like a nothingburger to me. As a general rule, I've found I almost never put narrow-ish hate cards in my decks because (1) there's a decent chance they do nothing, (2) if they do something, there's a solid chance they get me targeted by the affected player, and (3) if nothing else, they just aren't that interesting. They're never really the goal of the deck. And they're such a blunt weapon. Is ramp powerful. Sure, but that doesn't mean the ramp deck is always the person you need to target. I'd much rather run targeted answers that give me greater control, so I can ensure I'm targeting those who need to be targeted instead of anyone who happens to be playing land ramp.

That said, cantripping does help a fair bit. So I might run conundrum if I built brago, say, or bant enchantress, but that's about it. If you kicked the cost up to 3, pretty much guaranteed I'd never play it in anything, no matter how harsh the effect was.

Also it's kind of silly imo to say "well, blue sometimes gets paired with green, so it's just going to be anti-ramp in a ramp deck!". You do realize you can pair green with white too...?

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 7 months ago

Confounding Conundrum is absolutely worth running in every single Ux pile that you can get away with putting it in. A couple years back, the Command Zone stats episodes put some numbers on the ramp situation, and the player with the most lands in the pod won 40% of the time. It makes sense, really - lands are kind of taboo to attack, so you stockpile resources where they're unlikely to get destroyed and as long as you have stuff to do with them then the advantage will get you there eventually. My group's got its share of ramp-and-draw style decks, and when one of those gets going then it's seriously hard to do anything about. Due to the prominence of the play style in the format, it's honestly a pretty safe bet that Conundrum will accomplish something at any table you sit down at.
 
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Post by Toshi » 7 months ago

Zendikar Rising has been a welcome surprise. Plenty of solid cards to pick up and barely anything overly pushed.
I'm considering the following includes:

Talrand, Sky Summoner:
+ Deliberate
+ New Drake Tokens, because i'm bored out of my mind by the OG and Amonkhet ones!

Gonti, Lord of Luxury:
+ Demon's Disciple
+ Malakir Rebirth
+ Feed the Swarm - finally independent of snatching an answer off an opponents top deck.

Zada, Hedron Grinder:
+ Inordinate Rage - Increasing toughness at instant speed is just so crucial with that deck.

Traxos, Scourge of Kroog:
+ Forsaken Monument - Obviously somewhat expensive for the sake of other decks and interactions, but an absolute perfect fit.

Brago, King Eternal:
+ Confounding Conundrum - Cantripping hate peace that's recurrable with Sun Titan? Get in!

Lazav, the Multifarious:
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden:
+ Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge - Fire Prophecy already exceeded expectations, so this will be nuts!

Gallia of the Endless Dance:
Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist:
Kambal, Consul of Allocation:
Keranos, God of Storms:
Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier:
Edric, Spymaster of Trest:
+ Concerted Defense - Will be a second Spell Pierce effectively. Missing a cleric for the off chance of a full party.
+ Merfolk Windrobber

As said, after the crapfests of the last few sets i'm pretty happy with this one, aside from the fact that party will likely not be a big thing in our format.

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Post by Wallycaine » 7 months ago

Cyberium wrote:
7 months ago
Wallycaine wrote:
7 months ago
Rumpy5897 wrote:
7 months ago
You can choose to find just one, which gets around that.

I feel that Confounding Conundrum should have been white rather than blue, it strikes me as one of those "fair" cards like Rule of Law that white tends to have in its arsenal.
It's been brought up to Maro before, and the jist is "White doesn't bounce opponent's lands, Blue does". There could be a white version of the effect that sacrifices/destroys, but that would have to be much more expensive and likely wouldn't have accomplished the set design goals they had for this card (being an anti-ramp card that doesn't hose landfall decks as much).
The problem isn't just white not getting a Conundrum effect. The problem is BLUE getting it. Yes, white had never bounced lands, but neither did blue have any one-sided ramp denial cantrip for 1U in the past, even Overburden was at least symmetrical and goes with blue's "less creature-centric" flavor. Not to mention, many blue centric decks had already splashed green for insane ramping, Conundrum would only end up being one blue deck using it to prevent another blue deck from ramping.

WotC had no reason to create a card like Conundrum for blue, which makes me feel that the only reason they make it "bounce" was because they want to give it to blue. They could've easily made a white card like this:

White Conundrum
1WW
Enchantment
When White Conundrum enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Whenever a land enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, if that player had another land enter the battlefield under their control this turn, that player may pay 1. If the player doesn't, you create a Treasure token. (Honestly? I prefer them sacrifice a land if they can't pay.)
And the point being made is that your version does none of the things they want it to do in standard. It punishes landfall decks just as hard as regular ramp, which is not what they presumably want. It's more expensive, and providing a mana payment option to get out of it makes it the opposite of a good way to deal with ramp. You know what player is most likely to have enough mana to pay that payment? Shockingly, the ramp player. So yes, they could have "easily" made that, if they wanted a card that accomplished none of their goals instead of some of them.

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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

This set has a lot of pretty cool stuff. There's also stuff that probably won't be good in our format. The Party mechanic, for example, seems unlikely to be a thing outside maybe a few strong cards finding their way into Morophon All-Tribe Changeling decks. It should be interesting in limited, though.

I think the bulk of the land-or-spell modal DFCs are pretty bad. "ETB single-color land or overpriced spell" doesn't seem like the greatest modal option of all time. There are some exceptions - the shapeshifter one looks pretty good - but I don't see myself running very many of these other than the Valakut one in Grenzo. There are still plenty of other good toys, though.

Some of the wizards and rogues might be good enough to earn themselves spots in my decks that have a rogue or wizard tribal element (Oona, Bad Sygg, Heidar). I am glad to see cleric tribal getting some love, but this set's offerings - which push not just tribal but also an aristocrats theme, which is already amply represented among my decks - seem a bit too linear for my tastes. I expect a lot of other people will like it just fine.

Angel of Destiny seems potentially insane in the right deck, but I'm not sure it fits into my one dedicated lifegain deck (Karlov). Definitely gonna snag a copy, though.

Archon of Emeria seems like an interesting way of limiting opponents while not limiting yourself.

Felidar Retreat is a solid value landfall card in white. I think Karametra will like this one a lot.

Gonna need a few copies of Skyclave Apparition . I could see this easily becoming a staple.

I wish Tazri, Beacon of Unity was an ally, but she's still good enough to find a place among the 99 in my Allies deck.

I see a lot of green ramp among the decks I typically play against these days, so I think Confounding Conundrum will likely find its way into at least a couple of my decks. And yes, I will be one of the evil folk that will play this in UG decks so I can still ramp while preventing other green rampy shenanigans.

Drana, the Last Bloodchief . Nicely costed, beefy flier that reanimates my dead stuff. Yeah, I think this might potentially find a place in a couple of decks.

Feed the Swarm ... I dont know how I feel about black getting easy enchantment removal, but my trepidations won't keep me from running this one in some mono-black or Rakdos decks.

Lithoform Blight . Low-priced targeted LD that cantrips? Sounds potentially good.

Marauding Blight-Priest might be good enough for Karlov, maybe Kenrith, possibly any deck that includes Vito. I am sure it will end up in at least one of my decks, and I love it when a common is good enough to slot into a Commander deck.

Nighthawk Scavenger. Talk about power creep. I didn't think it would be possible for them to improve on Vampire Nighthawk, which is one of the most cost-efficient creatures of all time, but here it is. I run VH in 6 decks, and any copies of Scavenger I happen to pick up will probably take over some of those slots.

4 cmc is a pretty competitive spot in my decks, but I think Skyclave Shadowcat just might find a slot in Marchesa.

Soul Shatter . Good edict effect is good.

Cleansing Wildfire . Again, low-cost targeted LD that cantrips seems pretty darn good. I will be running this in at least a couple of decks.

Moraug, Fury of Akoum is just insanely good. It's hard to see me not wanting to run this in any RG or RGX deck, or any R deck which uses fetchlands. I will probably slot things like Evolving Wilds into some decks just because of this card. Ruric Thar, Mayael and Radha will want this guy for sure. Maybe Gisela as well.

Nahiri's Lithoforming seems maybe potentially good in Lord Windgrace . I expect some of the Korvold players will also like it.

Ancient Greenwarden is a lot higher CMC than Ramunap Excavator, but it offers additional utility and is also a significant beater on its own. I'm pretty sure this will end up in Windgrace at the very least.

Ashaya, Soul of the Wild seems pretty good. I particularly like the quasi-Cryptolith Rite effect. Its lack of evasion makesit less reliable as a beater, but it isn't like green lacks effects to give things trample (if you are running big green creatures, why are you not running Garruk's Uprising ?), so I expect it to still fit in a fair amount of my decks, because turning all of your utility creatures into mana dorks is pretty good. Given the format's avoidance of MLD, I don't see turning all your stuff into Forests to carry nearly as much risk as benefit.

Iridescent Hornbeetle is pretty high CMC, but being able to pump out a lot of free tokens in +1/+1 counter decks seems pretty good, especially since those decks tend to run Doubling Season and similar effects. Among my own decks, the CMC means it probably isn't good enough for Atraxa, but it just might be bonkers in Anafenza counters and Animar Hydra Tribal.

I have a pretty large card collection, but I don't own a single copy of Lotus Cobra . I am definitely looking forward to correcting that, and to slotting it into some of my decks.

Roiling Regrowth. Worse Harrow might still be pretty good. Having another instant-speed ramp option seems solid.

Scute Swarm isn't actually good, but it still makes me smile, so I think I'll play it in at least one deck. Maybe in Radha, alongside Scute Mob .

Akiri, Fearless Voyager is the one legend from the set which might inspire a new deck. If not, it will probably end up in the 99 in some Boros deck involving equipment. May Jor Kadeen.

Yasharn, Implacable Earth will find its way into one of my Selesnya or WGX decks (possibly Karametra) just because it will screw nicely with black.

Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats is a bit over-costed, but I might try it in one of my two vampire decks (Edgar or Garza Zol), because giving everything deathtouch is good. I could see him maybe finding a place in Saskia, which runs some clerics and warriors already.

Zareth San, the Trickster is gonna slot nicely into Sygg, River Cutthroat rogue tribal.

I don't have a colorless deck, but Jhoira runs a ton of artifact creatures, and she and Brudiclad also run lots of colorless mana rocks and tend to produce a crapton of thopters, so I expect Forsaken Monument will find a home in one or both of those decks. I look forward to killing someone with Jhoira's Familiar someday .

Lithoform Engine . This card is bonkers. I almost never preorder cards. I have preordered 4. This CMC and activation costs keep it from being an auto-include, but it offers so much value that I expect it will end up in a lot of my decks. It will absolutely fit into Brudiclad.

Myriad Construct seems both fun and potentially good. I'm not sure where I will run it, but I expect it to find a home somewhere.

Skyclave Relic is bonkers. One doesn't tend to associate green with artifact synergy, but this is kinda dumb with Doubling Season , Parallel Lives , etc. Definitely going in Gahiji Tokens (which also runs Anointed Procession .

I am pretty sure Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore and Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge are the only modal DCF cards I am going to be running at first. Maybe Kazuul's Fury // Kazuul's Cliffs as a backup Fling effect in Animar hydras. Most of the rest of these, I am just not impressed.

I think the Pathways are actively bad cards outside limited. Maybe they have a role in Standard; I have no idea what is going on there these days. In commander, we have way too many actual dual lands to choose from for these to take up a land slot. I would never run one of these over, say, a scry or check land of the same colors.
Last edited by JWK 7 months ago, edited 2 times in total.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 7 months ago

@JWK I think that the mythic spell / lands are reasonable. I think maybe the white one is the only one that I really can't see myself ever being happy casting the spell part of it but the others I have seen several decks where having a land that I can choose to come in untapped that produces colored mana or having a relevant spell seems not bad. I think I am personally going to have a hard time not slotting the blue one into a bunch of decks starting and seeing where it goes but I also play a lot of mono colored decks and two colored decks so a land that only produces one color of mana that I can have a spell or a shockland (ok bolt land) seems sort of fine.

The black one while it doesn't seem super powerful still seems really well suited for those two color decks where you might not be running cabal coffers but the value of actual basic lands is low.

The red one..... well..... I mean its ok, its not insane but I think I am willing to test it in a deck or two.

Really, blue probably got the most reasonable of the mythic spell / lands but still the fact that you can have sort of a shockland that can be a late game impactful spell seems appealing to me. The cost to bolt myself for an untapped land when I need it isn't that big of a cost.
[EDH] Sram (auras) | Bruna | Heliod | Sai | Naban | Anje

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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
7 months ago
@JWK I think that the mythic spell / lands are reasonable. I think maybe the white one is the only one that I really can't see myself ever being happy casting the spell part of it but the others I have seen several decks where having a land that I can choose to come in untapped that produces colored mana or having a relevant spell seems not bad. I think I am personally going to have a hard time not slotting the blue one into a bunch of decks starting and seeing where it goes but I also play a lot of mono colored decks and two colored decks so a land that only produces one color of mana that I can have a spell or a shockland (ok bolt land) seems sort of fine.
I'm not sure how relevant the spells are for the cost, though. The white one is over-costed, though the indestructibility carrying over until your next turn is pretty nifty. The green one, I'd rather just run Genesis Wave, which is more certain to net me something, especially since I don't really care if my Wood Elves or Beast Whisperer comes in with three +1/+1 counters, or Green Sun's Zenith, which has zero chance of whiffing? The blue one is potentially strong, but it is super-pricey, and the value is conditional on how full your hand is. Blue Sun's Zenith has a lower ceiling, but it has a much higher floor, and has the advantage of being an instant and reshuffling back into your deck. The black one, why not just run Rise of the Dark Realms ?

And in case someone might ask "why not run these + GSG/RotDR/etc.,?" how many card slots in your deck do you alot to high-CMC stuff?

I might change my mind after seeing some of these in practice, but CMC > 6 is super-competitve in my decks.

And seriously, how often are you so badly mana screwed, or how fast are your metas, that you are going to want to pay 3 life to play a Swamp or whatever at the cost of one of your haymaker late-game spells?
Last edited by JWK 7 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 7 months ago

JWK wrote:
7 months ago
ISBPathfinder wrote:
7 months ago
@JWK I think that the mythic spell / lands are reasonable. I think maybe the white one is the only one that I really can't see myself ever being happy casting the spell part of it but the others I have seen several decks where having a land that I can choose to come in untapped that produces colored mana or having a relevant spell seems not bad. I think I am personally going to have a hard time not slotting the blue one into a bunch of decks starting and seeing where it goes but I also play a lot of mono colored decks and two colored decks so a land that only produces one color of mana that I can have a spell or a shockland (ok bolt land) seems sort of fine.
I'm not sure how relevant the spells are for the cost, though. The white one is over-costed, though the indestructibility carrying over until your next turn is pretty nifty. The green one, I'd rather just run Genesis Wave, which is more certain to net me something, especially since I don't really care if my Wood Elves or Beast Whisperer comes in with three +1/+1 counters, or Green Sun's Zenith, which has zero chance of whiffing? The blue one is potentially strong, but it is super-pricey, and the value is conditional on how full your hand is. Blue Sun's Zenith has a lower ceiling, but it has a much higher floor, and has the advantage of being an instant and reshuffling back into your deck. The black one, why not just run Rise of the Dark Realms ?

I might change my mind after seeing some of these in practice, but CMC > 6 is super-competitve in my decks.

And seriously, how often are you so badly mana screwed, or how fast are your metas, that you are going to want to pay 3 life to play a Swamp or whatever at the cost of one of your haymaker late-game spells?
They are competative from the standpoint that the alternat spell options you mentioned are dead in hand early where as these are lands early. Play them as lands if you draw them and don't have that mana but they have the option to be either. They make mana flood / screw slightly better potentially and the downside of them entering tapped is an optional that you can get past with a little life. I get that the always tapped ones you can only run to such an extent but I think the mythics as long as there is a situation you think you would be happy with casting that spell I think they make a lot more sense.

Many of the mythic ones I am bringing in in place of lands and just assuming I play them as a land more than half the time. Its only going to be when I draw them late or am land flooded that I will consider casting them as spells. I often avoid putting in a lot of 6+ mana spells in my list but if you put the mythics in as lands that "can" be something else late I think they look a lot more appealing. I essentially have never justified playing Rise of the Dark Realms given its cost to cast but if it was maybe an untapped land instead..... well man thats a lot more appealing.
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Post by JWK » 7 months ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
7 months ago
Many of the mythic ones I am bringing in in place of lands and just assuming I play them as a land more than half the time. Its only going to be when I draw them late or am land flooded that I will consider casting them as spells. I often avoid putting in a lot of 6+ mana spells in my list but if you put the mythics in as lands that "can" be something else late I think they look a lot more appealing. I essentially have never justified playing Rise of the Dark Realms given its cost to cast but if it was maybe an untapped land instead..... well man thats a lot more appealing.
That is an interesting idea. I will be interested in hearing how that works out.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

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